Confirmed with Link: Blues sign Patrick Maroon (1 year @$1.75m) - ORIGINAL 2018 SIGNING THREAD

[Majorityof1]

Quality of hits sure is different. Maroon is also better.

High quality hits like this one? Sure if skating very slowly into the head of someone who isn't looking and doesn't have the puck is a high quality hit, Maroon's are grade-A. If by better, you mean puts up more points, than sure. If you mean knows where a forward is supposed to play in the defensive zone, then no.

 

[BlueDream]

High quality hits like this one? Sure if skating very slowly into the head of someone who isn't looking and doesn't have the puck is a high quality hit, Maroon's are grade-A. If by better, you mean puts up more points, than sure. If you mean knows where a forward is supposed to play in the defensive zone, then no.

Oh no, he accidentally caught someone in the head once! That never happens in hockey! Yeah Maroon is actually powerful and doesn't just run around lightly bumping into people to rack up 200 "hits."

And if you are judging the quality of a forward by their defensive zone positioning, you might need some help. I guess Tarasenko is one of the worst forwards on the team now, thanks for clearing that up.

 

[Vincenzo Arelliti]

The only reason Kyrou should not be on the opening night roster is if he is

A) Injured (please god no)

B) Completely outplayed by his competition


If he has an excellent camp but is sent down to the AHL in order to play guys like Maroon, Soshnikov, Jaskin, etc., then I will be worried about management.

Fabbri O’Reilly Tarasenko
Schwartz Schenn Kyrou
Steen Bozak Perron
Maroon Thomas Soshnikov/Kostin

This should be our lineup if Maroon is signed and Kyrou doesn’t completely bomb. Both Kyrou and Thomas are ready - Kostin can join once he shows more in the AHL. Kostin will add some more boom and speed to the 4th line once Soshnikov injuries himself, or one of our LWers breaks down.

PP1
Net: Maroon
Slot: Schenn
Left Wall: Perron
Right Wall: Tarasenko
Point: Dunn/Parayko

PP2:
Net: O’Reilly
Slot: Schwartz
Left Wall: Kyrou/Bozak
Right Wall: Fabbri
Point: Pietrangelo

Maroon had better sign for 2M or less, and 2 years or less. The less the better.

 

[Majorityof1]

I'm judging a 4th liner who needs a quality C to be successful offensively by the quality of his defensive positioning. Playing with Barbashev/Sunqvist/Sanford @ C, he won't score 20 goals. So he needs to contribute something else. Its not defense, and its not hits. I didn't post that so much for the head shot, but the slow and unaware way he skated in. That is pretty standard for him.

 

[EastonBlues22]

I'm judging a 4th liner who needs a quality C to be successful offensively by the quality of his defensive positioning. Playing with Barbashev/Sunqvist/Sanford @ C, he won't score 20 goals. So he needs to contribute something else. Its not defense, and its not hits. I didn't post that so much for the head shot, but the slow and unaware way he skated in. That is pretty standard for him.

How many 4th liners score 20 goals?

There were 139 forwards in the NHL last year who scored goals at that pace (min 40 GP). That makes the 20 goal threshold 2nd line production.

He could score at half that rate and still be ahead of most 4th liners, and there's no real reason why he can't even with bottom six linemates. If he gets any time on the 3rd line, he could threaten 15 goals with the talent we'll have on that line...also a very reasonable total for that level.

I'm not sure why you're knocking his physicality. It's one of the few things he actually brings to the table. The rest of his game is pretty "meh," but again, the standards are generally pretty low for 4th liners. Is there a better 4th line candidate internally that we're bypassing, or a better one out there in FA that we're overlooking?

I just don't want the Blues to be envisioning a role much larger than that for him, especially if there's a corresponding financial commitment commensurate with that vision.

 

[GoldenSeal]

Maroon would walk onboard the team as a Stanley Cup winner who knows what it takes to win and may communicate that with the lockerroom, which is good for morale. Maroon will also light up anyone that comes after a teammate (even though I prefer Nolan in that role). As long as they are options at the bottom of the list, I like carrying Nolan and Maroon moreso than any bottomfeeder we've had in awhile. I feel they'll come out playing hungry and that's something that 4th line really needs.

 

[Falco Lombardi]

The only reason Kyrou should not be on the opening night roster is if he is

A) Injured (please god no)

B) Completely outplayed by his competition


If he has an excellent camp but is sent down to the AHL in order to play guys like Maroon, Soshnikov, Jaskin, etc., then I will be worried about management.

Fabbri O’Reilly Tarasenko
Schwartz Schenn Kyrou
Steen Bozak Perron
Maroon Thomas Soshnikov/Kostin

This should be our lineup if Maroon is signed and Kyrou doesn’t completely bomb. Both Kyrou and Thomas are ready - Kostin can join once he shows more in the AHL. Kostin will add some more boom and speed to the 4th line once Soshnikov injuries himself, or one of our LWers breaks down.

PP1
Net: Maroon
Slot: Schenn
Left Wall: Perron
Right Wall: Tarasenko
Point: Dunn/Parayko

PP2:
Net: O’Reilly
Slot: Schwartz
Left Wall: Kyrou/Bozak
Right Wall: Fabbri
Point: Pietrangelo

Maroon had better sign for 2M or less, and 2 years or less. The less the better.

Kyrou plays a different position than Jaskin and Soshnikov. They aren’t competing against each other for spots

 

[Majorityof1]

How many 4th liners score 20 goals?

There were 139 forwards in the NHL last year who scored goals at that pace (min 40 GP). That makes the 20 goal threshold 2nd line production.

He could score at half that rate and still be ahead of most 4th liners, and there's no real reason why he can't even with bottom six linemates. If he gets any time on the 3rd line, he could threaten 15 goals with the talent we'll have on that line...also a very reasonable total for that level.

I'm not sure why you're knocking his physicality. It's one of the few things he actually brings to the table. The rest of his game is pretty "meh," but again, the standards are generally pretty low for 4th liners. Is there a better 4th line candidate internally that we're bypassing, or a better one out there in FA that we're overlooking?

I just don't want the Blues to be envisioning a role much larger than that for him, especially if there's a corresponding financial commitment commensurate with that vision.

How many 4th liners get the kind of contract he should get if he went somewhere else? If he gets a 1 year, sub-$2M contract, alright, whatever. If he gets a multi-year multi-million dollar deal, then he needs to produce more than a typical 4th liner. Brodziak signed for 2x$1.15. He is a better 4th liner than Maroon. He can PK, he can play defense, he can play up the line-up, he can produce offense in small bunches on his own or with lesser players. Maroon can do none of that, except play up the line-up. If Maroon isn't scoring due to diminished time and diminished line mates, he is not useful. So why pay a premium to put a player in a role he isn't suited for and won't succeed in?

I am knocking his physicality because physicality for the sake of physicality isn't helpful and often detrimental. When he hits, he doesn't create turnovers or separate the puck. He is often behind the play or doing something illegal. He is generally in the top 30 in the league in PIMs. That's not something we need to deal with for an over-paid 4th liner.

 

[Mike Liut]

If we dont add some toughness we are going to get the crap kicked out of us physically. Army knows this

 

[Celtic Note]

Maroon on the 4th line for a year (playing up if/when needed) isn't the end of the world. He's a better fit for that role than a lot of the competition he would be facing in camp, though he doesn't have the special teams impact one would ideally want.

The thing is that the Blues need to get their talented youngsters some exposure in the NHL at some point. It's good for their development, and at some point these kids need to be tested so the Blues know what they have, and so the kids have an opportunity to build the trust/experience needed for a bigger role when then the time comes.

Assuming that Maroon gets more than a 1 year deal, the Blues will have Tarasenko, ROR, Fabbri, Schwartz, Schenn, Steen, Bozak, Perron, and Maroon locked in for multiple years...with Barbashev, Soshnikov, and Jaskin being under team control and in the mix as well.

Ignoring Thorburn and Sundqvist, that's still 12 guys. The talent of Thomas and Kyrou will demand NHL time in the near future. Kostin isn't that far behind. Sanford (and Blais) loses waiver exemption after next year, so a decision needs to be made on him quite soon as well.

I don't mind signing guys like Maroon if the intention is to ship someone out when it's time to clear some space. My concern is that the Blues will get so caught up with "competing" that they'll hesitate to do that when the time comes, favoring experience and depth over youth, and they'll ultimately suffocate/squander some of the better talent they have in their system.

Maybe that's less of a concern now that the Blues have more control over their AHL team, but I still think it's important to find some NHL time for your kids for a lot of reasons.

This is one of my major concerns as well.
Maybe Army will do something unsuspected that I can’t see, but this will be a concern unless that unexpected thing happens.

 

[EastonBlues22]

How many 4th liners get the kind of contract he should get if he went somewhere else? If he gets a 1 year, sub-$2M contract, alright, whatever. If he gets a multi-year multi-million dollar deal, then he needs to produce more than a typical 4th liner. Brodziak signed for 2x$1.15. He is a better 4th liner than Maroon. He can PK, he can play defense, he can play up the line-up, he can produce offense in small bunches on his own or with lesser players. Maroon can do none of that, except play up the line-up. If Maroon isn't scoring due to diminished time and diminished line mates, he is not useful. So why pay a premium to put a player in a role he isn't suited for and won't succeed in?

I am knocking his physicality because physicality for the sake of physicality isn't helpful and often detrimental. When he hits, he doesn't create turnovers or separate the puck. He is often behind the play or doing something illegal. He is generally in the top 30 in the league in PIMs. That's not something we need to deal with for an over-paid 4th liner.

I think you're selling him a bit short, and I say that as someone who is far from his biggest fan.

Agreeing to disagree on him as a player for the moment, it seems like a lot of your opposition is tied to the assumed financial cost, and some on the other side seem to be working from a different assumption.

We don't know what that is yet, so I'm not sure we need to get too invested in arguments predicated on that until the bill comes due. When we have the actual numbers, there's a decent chance we're all much more on the same page.

 

[Mike Liut]

Id bet its a 2 yr deal @ 1.5 - 2 mill per yr

 

[Falco Lombardi]

 

[WeWentBlues]

Back tracking again...aye

 

[Majorityof1]

I think you're selling him a bit short, and I say that as someone who is far from his biggest fan.

Agreeing to disagree on him as a player for the moment, it seems like a lot of your opposition is tied to the assumed financial cost, and some on the other side seem to be working from a different assumption.

We don't know what that is yet, so I'm not sure we need to get too invested in arguments predicated on that until the bill comes due. When we have the actual numbers, there's a decent chance we're all much more on the same page.

Yea, obviously my argument is tied to cost. Its just not worth getting to upset about a $1M player, although plenty of people do. I don't like Thorburn at all, but we can waive him or press-box him and it doesn't effect anything. Maroon would be pretty close to the same for me at $1.5M. However, people often talk about players with the assumption of their cost. When we talked about Kovulchuk, it was assuming he'd cost $5-6M. If anyone mentioned trading LWs and signing JVR, his supposed $7M price tage was mentioned. Had we been able to sign either for a shorter than anticipated and/or cheaper deal it would have changed people's opinions. I'm not sure how this is different.

I don't think he will sign for that cheap. If he is willing to sign for a cost low enough to sign him and Edmundson without moving anyone, he would have signed. To me that means they are trying to finagle the cap, either moving someone or a 1 year with a handshake extension. Multiple teams wanted him. Free agent market often overpayed. Devils, one of the teams rumored to have been interested, have cap coming out of their ears. He obviously wants to be closer to his son from what everyone is saying. But will he give up a potential 3x$4M deal for a 1- year sub $2M deal? He has made under $10M in his career. He'd be turning down more money than he has made in the last 10 years.

 

[Captain Creampuff]

Grew up with Pat in Oakville. Would love to see him in the Blue Note finally.

 

[Note Worthy]

Back tracking again...aye

Yeah and someone called him out on it again and he got snippy...again. Lol.

 

[A Real Barn Burner]

Can Armstrong make a trade for a new beat writer?

Depending on how Jake the Snake does this year that might be my most wanted trade.

 

[Bluesguru]

Maroon on the 4th line for a year (playing up if/when needed) isn't the end of the world. He's a better fit for that role than a lot of the competition he would be facing in camp, though he doesn't have the special teams impact one would ideally want.

The thing is that the Blues need to get their talented youngsters some exposure in the NHL at some point. It's good for their development, and at some point these kids need to be tested so the Blues know what they have, and so the kids have an opportunity to build the trust/experience needed for a bigger role when then the time comes.

Assuming that Maroon gets more than a 1 year deal, the Blues will have Tarasenko, ROR, Fabbri, Schwartz, Schenn, Steen, Bozak, Perron, and Maroon locked in for multiple years...with Barbashev, Soshnikov, and Jaskin being under team control and in the mix as well.

Ignoring Thorburn and Sundqvist, that's still 12 guys. The talent of Thomas and Kyrou will demand NHL time in the near future. Kostin isn't that far behind. Sanford (and Blais) loses waiver exemption after next year, so a decision needs to be made on him quite soon as well.

I don't mind signing guys like Maroon if the intention is to ship someone out when it's time to clear some space. My concern is that the Blues will get so caught up with "competing" that they'll hesitate to do that when the time comes, favoring experience and depth over youth, and they'll ultimately suffocate/squander some of the better talent they have in their system.

Maybe that's less of a concern now that the Blues have more control over their AHL team, but I still think it's important to find some NHL time for your kids for a lot of reasons.

Maroon on the 4th line for a year (playing up if/when needed) isn't the end of the world. He's a better fit for that role than a lot of the competition he would be facing in camp, though he doesn't have the special teams impact one would ideally want.

The thing is that the Blues need to get their talented youngsters some exposure in the NHL at some point. It's good for their development, and at some point these kids need to be tested so the Blues know what they have, and so the kids have an opportunity to build the trust/experience needed for a bigger role when then the time comes.

Assuming that Maroon gets more than a 1 year deal, the Blues will have Tarasenko, ROR, Fabbri, Schwartz, Schenn, Steen, Bozak, Perron, and Maroon locked in for multiple years...with Barbashev, Soshnikov, and Jaskin being under team control and in the mix as well.

Ignoring Thorburn and Sundqvist, that's still 12 guys. The talent of Thomas and Kyrou will demand NHL time in the near future. Kostin isn't that far behind. Sanford (and Blais) loses waiver exemption after next year, so a decision needs to be made on him quite soon as well.

I don't mind signing guys like Maroon if the intention is to ship someone out when it's time to clear some space. My concern is that the Blues will get so caught up with "competing" that they'll hesitate to do that when the time comes, favoring experience and depth over youth, and they'll ultimately suffocate/squander some of the better talent they have in their system.

Maybe that's less of a concern now that the Blues have more control over their AHL team, but I still think it's important to find some NHL time for your kids for a lot of reasons.

Gotta remember though, the Blues will have their share of injuries. With Schwartz, Steen, Fabbri, those 3 guys alone will open up some ice time. Last year you had Bouwmeester and Gunnarson missing a combined 66 games which really opened the door for Dunn. It's a nice problem to have and who's to say Steen doesn't end up getting dealt?

 

[BuLLeT1291]

Lou saying deal is 1 year 1.7M

Then in January they will work on extension.

1.7 is a massive HT discount. He could easily get 3.5 in EDM if they could afford him.

 

[BlueDream]

Korac (yeah, I know) is saying the deal is finalized at 1 year, 1.7 mil and could be announced tomorrow.

At this point there's too much smoke to not be fire so it's just a matter of time.

 

[Falco Lombardi]

That’s the biggest hometown discount I’ve ever seen.

 

[Dbrownss]

Back tracking again...aye

What if he's just reporting what he hears?

 

[Itsnotatrap]

JR gave himself a little wiggle room with how he reported it. “Expected to sign”, “could add another piece as soon as Sunday”, “terms of the deal are not yet known and may not even be finalized yet”.

Yeah, JR was trying to get out ahead of it, but he pretty clearly said it isn’t done. He gave the reader that context, so I am not going to ding him on this one even if it swerves another direction.

I’m not a big fan of Maroon exactly, but if it’s something like 1/2M, then count me as happy with it. I suspect Army isn’t sure about Yeo, but he knows when players fell left and right in camp last season, Yeo had to do a lot of patchwork with duct tape and bubble gum for much of the season. Looks to me like Army is taking some accountability for that, and making damn sure he isn’t repeating it. He’ll get a good, clean evaluation of Yeo, and a fair chance for Yeo, as a result.

 

[Majorityof1]

That’s the biggest hometown discount I’ve ever seen.

We'll pay for it in January when we extend him. The Korac tweet said they would negotiate and extension as soon as they could. If market rate is 3x$3.5, or $10.5M over 3 years, then we'd have to pay $4.4Mthe next 2 years to even it out.