Confirmed with Link: Blues sign Patrick Maroon (1 year @$1.75m) - ORIGINAL 2018 SIGNING THREAD
- Thread starter Falco Lombardi
- Start date
You came to this conclusion after 12 games on a team that had just sold off its #1C and was spiraling out of the playoffs?
David Dennison
I'm a tariff, man.
Possession stats are from the last two seasons in TOR and STL are bleh (smallish sample size of 80ish games, but still not much there), scoring stats from the AHL and KHL are nothing that indicate that he will produce in the NHL. For comparison, PRV has a higher PPG in the AHL than him.
Do you think it is correct to call him a 3rd liner at this point in his career? IMO its his absolute ceiling, but nothing he has done in his career to this point indicate that he is there yet. He is a fast player who throws his small body around and is injury prone, but I just dont see much skill there.
You’re kind of grasping at straws here. Barbashev and Maroon are the ones that make it more of a 3rd line than a 4th line. Barbashev has 25 points in his first full season. Any type of improvement from him whatsoever could get him to 30, which is 3rd line numbers. Soshnikov is kind of irrelevant here... the point is, it’s hard to call that a 4th line, as it’s way better than guys like Ott, Brodziak, Reaves, etc that we’ve thrown out in the past.
Anyways, I’m fine with a Maroon signing. With all this depth, it will be tough for Thorburn to ever see the ice. So with that said, it’ll be nice to still have some toughness in the lineup with guys like Maroon, Schenn, Eddie, Bortz, Sosh that can go out and thump some people. I think - especially in the playoffs - we’re still going to need that in addition to our new-found skill.
Great move! Hopefully it’s true! Maroon adds much needed grit to a team that was soft as butter last year.
Doesn't help our cap listing. Also, we wouldn't get much value for a guy who I thought looked pretty good late last year.
David Dennison
I'm a tariff, man.
Barbashev had a terrible camp, couldnt beat 19 year old Tage Thompson for a roster spot out of camp, never really caught up and had a really disappointing season overall. Could he be a 3rd line center? Sure. But like Sosh, he really hasnt done it at the NHL level yet, so I would push back at calling him a 3rd liner, especially on a competitive team.
I can't imagine Maroon only getting a 1 year offer in free agency. Something goofy and premature about the whole thing. Sounds like JR is just trying to look like a hero with the news. No other hockey sites are whispering about this or anything.
The Blues do need Maroon. If we're going to beat the Jets in the playoffs, we'll need a guy who will stick up for his team. Maroon and Bortuzzo are much needed for the playoffs. I hope we do sign him.
The Blues do need Maroon. If we're going to beat the Jets in the playoffs, we'll need a guy who will stick up for his team. Maroon and Bortuzzo are much needed for the playoffs. I hope we do sign him.
EastonBlues22
Registered User
- Feb 12, 2008
- 19,376
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Maroon adds depth to the team. I understand the question marks regarding his signing, but, we've all seen the injury quotient of this team. Anything and everything that can happen to this team happens. It's not a bad idea to have some big guys on the team, especially when you are moving to smaller and faster. We were getting really thin that last couple of weeks of the season last year. We should be able to mix and match all season long with the current roster.
Maroon can score at the NHL level. He had 13 points in 17 games for New Jersey after they picked him up at the deadline. Since when did Jaskin ever have 13 points in a 17 game stretch in the NHL? Not even a comparison.
David Dennison
I'm a tariff, man.
I don't disagree with this, but if we have the money, he is better insurance for Fabbri than anything else we got at the moment.
EastonBlues22
Registered User
Maroon on the 4th line for a year (playing up if/when needed) isn't the end of the world. He's a better fit for that role than a lot of the competition he would be facing in camp, though he doesn't have the special teams impact one would ideally want.
The thing is that the Blues need to get their talented youngsters some exposure in the NHL at some point. It's good for their development, and at some point these kids need to be tested so the Blues know what they have, and so the kids have an opportunity to build the trust/experience needed for a bigger role when then the time comes.
Assuming that Maroon gets more than a 1 year deal, the Blues will have Tarasenko, ROR, Fabbri, Schwartz, Schenn, Steen, Bozak, Perron, and Maroon locked in for multiple years...with Barbashev, Soshnikov, and Jaskin being under team control and in the mix as well.
Ignoring Thorburn and Sundqvist, that's still 12 guys. The talent of Thomas and Kyrou will demand NHL time in the near future. Kostin isn't that far behind. Sanford (and Blais) loses waiver exemption after next year, so a decision needs to be made on him quite soon as well.
I don't mind signing guys like Maroon if the intention is to ship someone out when it's time to clear some space. My concern is that the Blues will get so caught up with "competing" that they'll hesitate to do that when the time comes, favoring experience and depth over youth, and they'll ultimately suffocate/squander some of the better talent they have in their system.
Maybe that's less of a concern now that the Blues have more control over their AHL team, but I still think it's important to find some NHL time for your kids for a lot of reasons.
David Dennison
I'm a tariff, man.
It's interesting that it hasn't been made official yet, makes you wonder if they are trying to move someone before they officially sign him.
This is a fair analysis of how his sophomore season went, but it completely ignores what he did the year prior that led him to believe that he could coast into camp with a spot like a veteran. He didn’t end up centering Tarasenko purely out of necessity, although that played a part certainly; the guy can play when he’s on. When he is tenacious and relentless, and he certainly has the skill if not the endurance to be both of those things, he has a pretty good argument for being a top-6 player. He didn’t live up to his end of the bargain last summer and yes that was disappointing, but he was given a diminished role throughout the rest of the season and still managed to put up 25 points in his first 83 games in the league. Many successful players in this league have gotten off to much worse starts. So saying he “hasn’t really done it in the NHL” is factually inaccurate. For a guy his age playing his minutes, he’s done quite well for himself, even accounting for his disappointments; maybe even more so because of them.
Even in a world where we now have elite center depth, a guy like Barbashev still has a role to play here. If trading him bolsters another position, then fine, but it just isn’t accurate to say that he hasn’t performed well statistically.
Majorityof1
Registered User
I was literally just trying to write this in the main board thread. But you said it 100 times better than I did (except the part of him being a better fit, I think he'll be garbage on the 4th with 4th line players). But the stuff about blocking youngsters from getting a taste of the NHL is spot on. @BlueDream , this is what I was trying to say.
Evocable Manager
Registered User
I'm agreement with you and EB22 on this front, I'd rather see younger, less polished but guys with good upside and talent (and speed) play such as Barbashev and Blais get the oppprutnity to develop into strong forcheckers and penalty killers. They have the tools to do it, Barbashev is extremely smart in how he goes into board battles and pressures the opposition. Blais is another tenacious player and both have the defensive capability.
In order for Maroon to be successful, he needs a great playmaking center. He actually is the type of winger that would have done very well with Stastny. But now we have a lot of guys pushing for the top 9 and lack the likes of Getzlaf and McDavid for Maroon to be useful. We could roll him on a line with Thomas and another player that plays well in the cycle (Jaskin?) as a fourth line but I'd rather see a guy like Barbashev or Blais in that spot because they have legit talent and nothing left to do at the AHL level.
He's not very strong defensively, he's not gonna score in many different ways, he's an effective net front presence and I guess he could play on the power play but he doesn't do enough to justify signing. We already have a plethora of players that can be used on the power play and Maroon isn't a very good penalty killer. So we're gonna fork out over 2M to a guy to play in the bottom half of the lineup when guys making less than 1M can play in that spot and probably do even more than Maroon can or at least can develop into more than what Maroon is? Just doesn't make sense to me.
Reality Czech
Registered User
- Apr 17, 2017
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Maroon has 44 goals the past two seasons (149 games).
Jaskin 25 career goals in 256 games.
It's not all about hits. The kids will play if they are good enough, but I'd rather have Maroon in there than Jaskin, Sundqvist, etc. Not sure what being from St. Louis has to do with that. And I'm sure you've never shown bias towards Finnish players, right?
With Fabbri being such a huge wild card I see Maroon as being (some) insurance. He was able to produce when playing with skill in Edmonton. It’s not the ideal situation if he were playing with ROR and Tarasenko but he’s a more reliable option than some of the younger players.
I’m guessing that’s a big reason Army wants to add Maroon. It just provides a little insurance in case Fabbri is unable to play.
The team without Fabbri and Maroon would be a little thin. Schwartz, Steen, and Perron could be the top 9 LW’s but that would probably force Kyrou on the roster at RW. I’m ok with that but it doesn’t seem like the organization is. I think they’re fine with Kyrou earning a spot but so long as it’s not guaranteed.
I’m guessing that’s a big reason Army wants to add Maroon. It just provides a little insurance in case Fabbri is unable to play.
The team without Fabbri and Maroon would be a little thin. Schwartz, Steen, and Perron could be the top 9 LW’s but that would probably force Kyrou on the roster at RW. I’m ok with that but it doesn’t seem like the organization is. I think they’re fine with Kyrou earning a spot but so long as it’s not guaranteed.
EastonBlues22
Registered User
My biggest concern was that the Blues would make an overly large commitment to Maroon...anything in the 3+ year, $3+ million range. That seems pretty unlikely at this point given the other signings the Blues have made this offseason.
You're not going to get the "most" out of Maroon by playing him on the 4th line, but he could still put up 20+ points in that role and bring the usual physical/"grit" element and simple game one would expect from a player in that position, which is just fine if he's not on a middle-six contract. It might not be ideal, but he can play up if needed.
Maroon - Sanford/Barbashev - Jaskin/Soshnikov is a decent mix for your 4th line, especially if any of them can contribute positively on the PK. It won't be fast, but it can still be effective.
The downside is that it severely undercuts a lot of the rhetoric about earning your spot on the roster in camp.
There's room for one of Thomas, Kyrou, or Kostin and that's basically it. Thomas will probably get the nod because he has the most well-rounded game and he's forced back to the OHL if he doesn't stick. I think another season there is more likely to hurt his development than help it, so it seems unlikely to happen. Kyrou and Kostin will be in the AHL (likely even if they have better camps than some of the guys above) to "provide depth" and "work on their games."
The only other "big" competition is to see which one of Thorburn, Sundqvist, and Sanford is waived/sent down to make room for Thomas.
You're not going to get the "most" out of Maroon by playing him on the 4th line, but he could still put up 20+ points in that role and bring the usual physical/"grit" element and simple game one would expect from a player in that position, which is just fine if he's not on a middle-six contract. It might not be ideal, but he can play up if needed.
Maroon - Sanford/Barbashev - Jaskin/Soshnikov is a decent mix for your 4th line, especially if any of them can contribute positively on the PK. It won't be fast, but it can still be effective.
The downside is that it severely undercuts a lot of the rhetoric about earning your spot on the roster in camp.
There's room for one of Thomas, Kyrou, or Kostin and that's basically it. Thomas will probably get the nod because he has the most well-rounded game and he's forced back to the OHL if he doesn't stick. I think another season there is more likely to hurt his development than help it, so it seems unlikely to happen. Kyrou and Kostin will be in the AHL (likely even if they have better camps than some of the guys above) to "provide depth" and "work on their games."
The only other "big" competition is to see which one of Thorburn, Sundqvist, and Sanford is waived/sent down to make room for Thomas.
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