Confirmed with Link: Blues Sign Jori Lehtera (No, not again. It was just the one time. Deep breaths.)

[Dbrownss]

This was an injury during the playoffs? I hadn't realized about that.

Yep, one of the only times Bouwmeester puts a slapper on net, he breaks Lehterä's hand.

 

[2 Minute Minor]

Yep, one of the only times Bouwmeester puts a slapper on net, he breaks Lehterä's hand.

I swear JR called it a "lower body" injury.

 

[Dbrownss]

It looked like he hit him in the leg, but after a few replays, it hit his hand.

I could see them trying to advert attention away from his hands. Slash city

 

[TheOrganist]

Yep, one of the only times Bouwmeester puts a slapper on net, he breaks Lehterä's hand.

In a 6-1 game with 5 minutes left.

Such a Blues injury.

 

[Ranksu]

It looked like he hit him in the leg, but after a few replays, it hit his hand.

I could see them trying to advert attention away from his hands. Slash city

Yah, its Jorsti right wrist what is broken.

 

[Dbrownss]

So no Blues reported surgery...

Easy to come to the conclusion a certain other skater may get repairs in the summer too

 

[Ranksu]

I swear JR called it a "lower body" injury.

You are correct, but ofc they will 'report' wrong details when series is going on that is understandable. After we lost they confirm it was right hand injury not 'lower body'

 

[Ranksu]

Listening Army's press about Lehterä. God dangit he was so wrong about him and we all.

http://video.nhl.com/videocenter/?id=831665

 

[Stealth JD]

In hindsight, ssd338t won this thread long ago.

 

[MissouriMook]

There has been a lot of chatter around here lately about the fate of Lehtera and the Blues and rightly so. The conversation seems to center around which is the best of three possible outcomes.

1. We trade him, it just depends on the retention.
2. We bribe VGK to take him in the Expansion Draft, it just depends on what it will cost for them to take him.
3. We buyout his remaining contract.

The return of Sobotka, and the seeming confidence that Army has with being able to deal with the situation of having Berglund, Lehtera, Sobotka and (now) Barbashev all ideal for the 3C role got me to thinking. What if there is a fourth option that we've all overlooked.

Is it even remotely possible that Lehtera wants to return to Europe and re-join the KHL?

As remote as this possibility might be, this would likely be the best possible outcome. As I understand the CBA, if Lehtera desires to return to the KHL and the Blues agree to a mutual termination of his contract, we would escape his cap hit in full without having to expend any assets to do so. Again, I realize that this is highly unlikely, but the chances have to be greater than zero given that he is from Europe (as is his wife, I believe) and has a history of playing in that league, so he may be able to make just as much money over there as he would here.

 

[carter333167]

There has been a lot of chatter around here lately about the fate of Lehtera and the Blues and rightly so. The conversation seems to center around which is the best of three possible outcomes.

1. We trade him, it just depends on the retention.
2. We bribe VGK to take him in the Expansion Draft, it just depends on what it will cost for them to take him.
3. We buyout his remaining contract.

The return of Sobotka, and the seeming confidence that Army has with being able to deal with the situation of having Berglund, Lehtera, Sobotka and (now) Barbashev all ideal for the 3C role got me to thinking. What if there is a fourth option that we've all overlooked.

Is it even remotely possible that Lehtera wants to return to Europe and re-join the KHL?

As remote as this possibility might be, this would likely be the best possible outcome. As I understand the CBA, if Lehtera desires to return to the KHL and the Blues agree to a mutual termination of his contract, we would escape his cap hit in full without having to expend any assets to do so. Again, I realize that this is highly unlikely, but the chances have to be greater than zero given that he is from Europe (as is his wife, I believe) and has a history of playing in that league, so he may be able to make just as much money over there as he would here.

He's not going to be offered the same money so probably little to zero chance he won't stay for the guaranteed money.

 

[Brian39]

There has been a lot of chatter around here lately about the fate of Lehtera and the Blues and rightly so. The conversation seems to center around which is the best of three possible outcomes.

1. We trade him, it just depends on the retention.
2. We bribe VGK to take him in the Expansion Draft, it just depends on what it will cost for them to take him.
3. We buyout his remaining contract.

The return of Sobotka, and the seeming confidence that Army has with being able to deal with the situation of having Berglund, Lehtera, Sobotka and (now) Barbashev all ideal for the 3C role got me to thinking. What if there is a fourth option that we've all overlooked.

Is it even remotely possible that Lehtera wants to return to Europe and re-join the KHL?

As remote as this possibility might be, this would likely be the best possible outcome. As I understand the CBA, if Lehtera desires to return to the KHL and the Blues agree to a mutual termination of his contract, we would escape his cap hit in full without having to expend any assets to do so. Again, I realize that this is highly unlikely, but the chances have to be greater than zero given that he is from Europe (as is his wife, I believe) and has a history of playing in that league, so he may be able to make just as much money over there as he would here.

We owe him $9.7 mil of real dollars over the next 2 years.

According to Sportsnet, Sobotka was the 4th highest paid player in the KHL this season at $3 mil. Datsyuk and Voynov make $4.5 mil while Kovalchyuk makes $5.5 mil. Nichushkin makes $1.2 mil.

I get that there is a difference in tax structure and probably a lot of money under the table, but Lehtera wouldn't be able to make anything close to what he is set to make in the NHL. Even after taxes and additional under the table money, doing us a solid and heading to Europe would mean leaving millions of dollars on the table.

It would be great, but it's not happening.

 

[BluesBrother]

No Finnish player wants to live in Russia rather than NA (Maybe Komarov).
All Fin players go to KHL only for money. But what I've read life there is not the same than in Europe or NA. So I highly doubt Lehtera will ever go back to KHL. He will make and has made enough money to not to go back there. That's my opinion. I hope he has good PO's, so Las Vegas wants him. I really like the guy, sadly he has "too good" contract.

 

[Luck of Duck]

I actually think Lehterä could be an option for Vegas - expensive, yeah, but you do need to meet cap floor and he has shown skills enought to produce in NHL. Try to get him going and work out a rental deal - retain salary get late pic.

And who knows how players react to trade, but I think best thing for Lehterä would be to get traded during the summer, get another shot in new team.

 

[TruBlu]

I personally think, given recent acquisitions and contracts handed out to personnel, that DA already considers Lehtera gone this coming season. There is probably already a deal in place once July rolls around. Vegas has a great shot at loading up on draft picks if they play their cards right. A Lehtera trade could probably happen for a 3rd and 1 to 2 million retained per year. Vegas knows they won't be contending right away, but loading up on picks to do your own drafting and choose the direction of your team is the best way to get a start on a solid young core.

 

[Evocable Manager]

Jori Lehtera had 21 points (7 goals, 14 assists) in his first 23 NHL games. This was over a 2 month period from October 1st to December 1st.

He finished the 2014-2015 season with 44 points in 75 games (14 goals, 30 assist) meaning in the last 52 games, he had 23 points (7 goals, 16 assists). He went from averaging 0.91pts/gp to 0.44pts/gp.

The next year he had 34 points in 79 games (9 goals, 25 assists), a 0.43pts/gp.

This season he had 22 points (7 goals, 15 assists) in 64 games, 0.34pts/gp.

In his career, he has 100 points in 218 games (30 goals, 70 assists), which is 0.46pts/gp. If you remove his first 23 games, he has 79 points in 195 games, good for 0.41pts/gp.

A 0.41pts/gp ties him for 305th league wide with the likes of Kronwall, Phaneuf, Cullen, Erat and Daley. Among centers, he would rank 106th, tied with Cullen and Gourde. He ranks 249th among all forwards. Keep in mind all of this is excluding his first 23 games, which I excluded because that was quite clearly an anomaly and not sustainable production.

Now looking at advanced stats (all 5v5), he has a 1.57pts/60, ranks 191st among forwards (minimum 500 minutes played) since he entered the league. He ranks 147th in CF% with 51.9%, but his CF%RelTM is 0 and ranks 247th. In FA60RelTM, he is 198th with -0.7.

He has also progressively gotten worse each season played.

Basically, he doesn't produce much offense, doesn't generate possession and doesn't suppress shots. Tie that long with he isn't vital on any special teams, is like very slightly above 50% on the dot (I think 50.2%, but some sites are different) and isn't great defensively and you have a player who isn't really impactful in any way. Why would Vegas want him? He isn't a very good stop gap, since he will probably be crap like he always has been and Vegas would probably regret it.

Vegas will have some options through UFA, be it players out of Europe or in the NHL right now. I'd wager to dump Lehtera on Vegas, we'd have to spice up the offer. If it takes Sanford, take it and run. If it takes a better young piece or one of the 1sts, I'd be hard press to make that sort of move.

 

[carter333167]

^^I think it's going to be expensive to dump him. It is, however, a necessity. Buyout or dump, he needs to go to make room for Parayko, Fabbri, Edmundson contracts.

Armstrong has backed himself into a corner with the Bergie and Sobotka contracts...he must get rid of Lehtera or risk effing up contracts of very important, younger talent.

 

[mk80]

Vegas may accept him though because they do have to meet the Cap floor which his contract would be useful for.

 

[2 Minute Minor]

Jori Lehtera had 21 points (7 goals, 14 assists) in his first 23 NHL games. This was over a 2 month period from October 1st to December 1st.

He finished the 2014-2015 season with 44 points in 75 games (14 goals, 30 assist) meaning in the last 52 games, he had 23 points (7 goals, 16 assists). He went from averaging 0.91pts/gp to 0.44pts/gp.

The next year he had 34 points in 79 games (9 goals, 25 assists), a 0.43pts/gp.

This season he had 22 points (7 goals, 15 assists) in 64 games, 0.34pts/gp.

In his career, he has 100 points in 218 games (30 goals, 70 assists), which is 0.46pts/gp. If you remove his first 23 games, he has 79 points in 195 games, good for 0.41pts/gp.

A 0.41pts/gp ties him for 305th league wide with the likes of Kronwall, Phaneuf, Cullen, Erat and Daley. Among centers, he would rank 106th, tied with Cullen and Gourde. He ranks 249th among all forwards. Keep in mind all of this is excluding his first 23 games, which I excluded because that was quite clearly an anomaly and not sustainable production.

Now looking at advanced stats (all 5v5), he has a 1.57pts/60, ranks 191st among forwards (minimum 500 minutes played) since he entered the league. He ranks 147th in CF% with 51.9%, but his CF%RelTM is 0 and ranks 247th. In FA60RelTM, he is 198th with -0.7.

He has also progressively gotten worse each season played.

Basically, he doesn't produce much offense, doesn't generate possession and doesn't suppress shots. Tie that long with he isn't vital on any special teams, is like very slightly above 50% on the dot (I think 50.2%, but some sites are different) and isn't great defensively and you have a player who isn't really impactful in any way. Why would Vegas want him? He isn't a very good stop gap, since he will probably be crap like he always has been and Vegas would probably regret it.

Vegas will have some options through UFA, be it players out of Europe or in the NHL right now. I'd wager to dump Lehtera on Vegas, we'd have to spice up the offer. If it takes Sanford, take it and run. If it takes a better young piece or one of the 1sts, I'd be hard press to make that sort of move.

Woah. No way.

I'd much rather part with draft picks or prospects who are not close to NHL ready. Sanford is far too valuable because of the tempo of the Blues' window.

But if it comes down to the scenario you outlined, I think they'd just buy him out. Retained salary would also add value to Lehtera and be preferable from the Blues point of view.

 

[MortiestOfMortys]

Jori Lehtera had 21 points (7 goals, 14 assists) in his first 23 NHL games. This was over a 2 month period from October 1st to December 1st.

He finished the 2014-2015 season with 44 points in 75 games (14 goals, 30 assist) meaning in the last 52 games, he had 23 points (7 goals, 16 assists). He went from averaging 0.91pts/gp to 0.44pts/gp.

The next year he had 34 points in 79 games (9 goals, 25 assists), a 0.43pts/gp.

This season he had 22 points (7 goals, 15 assists) in 64 games, 0.34pts/gp.

In his career, he has 100 points in 218 games (30 goals, 70 assists), which is 0.46pts/gp. If you remove his first 23 games, he has 79 points in 195 games, good for 0.41pts/gp.

A 0.41pts/gp ties him for 305th league wide with the likes of Kronwall, Phaneuf, Cullen, Erat and Daley. Among centers, he would rank 106th, tied with Cullen and Gourde. He ranks 249th among all forwards. Keep in mind all of this is excluding his first 23 games, which I excluded because that was quite clearly an anomaly and not sustainable production.

Now looking at advanced stats (all 5v5), he has a 1.57pts/60, ranks 191st among forwards (minimum 500 minutes played) since he entered the league. He ranks 147th in CF% with 51.9%, but his CF%RelTM is 0 and ranks 247th. In FA60RelTM, he is 198th with -0.7.

He has also progressively gotten worse each season played.

Basically, he doesn't produce much offense, doesn't generate possession and doesn't suppress shots. Tie that long with he isn't vital on any special teams, is like very slightly above 50% on the dot (I think 50.2%, but some sites are different) and isn't great defensively and you have a player who isn't really impactful in any way. Why would Vegas want him? He isn't a very good stop gap, since he will probably be crap like he always has been and Vegas would probably regret it.

Vegas will have some options through UFA, be it players out of Europe or in the NHL right now. I'd wager to dump Lehtera on Vegas, we'd have to spice up the offer. If it takes Sanford, take it and run. If it takes a better young piece or one of the 1sts, I'd be hard press to make that sort of move.

And this is the point where your entire argument hinges. What were those first games all about? To answer that, you've got to think about the context.

Lehtera comes in to the NHL, and gets to play with one of the best players in the league and his old linemate. The chemistry is clearly still there, he is quick and physical and all the rest of it. But then, like you identified, it caught up with him, and he regressed a ton. There's two ways to explain that drop from the .9's to the .4's, imo.

Possibility 1: he was a fresh face, and the book wasn't out on him yet. He got 20-30 games in, video of his game got out, teams figured out how to shut him down, and the rest is history. If this is true, he probably can't overcome it, and your premise is plausible. I still disagree about his contract being an issue for Vegas one way or another, but let's shelve that for the time being.

Possibility 2: He's a fresh face, and the coaching staff didn't get their nails into him until about 20-30 games into the season. I'll be the first to admit that I was a staunch defender of Hitch during his time here, and I still think that some of the things that got blamed on him were sort of silly, but I think the Yeo regime is showing us that there were factors at play that were negatively affecting us. You see it in Hitch's interviews and his twitter takeover today with the Stars. I'd be very interested to see if Lehtera's zone starts changed at all between the first group of games and the rest, or how the QoC changed. It seems likely to me that after Lehtera was given time to just go out there and play, like Yeo has encouraged our young players to do, Hitch & co started pushing him to play *their* game and not his. For a guy who spent the vast majority of his career outside of the NHL, demanding that sort of adjustment in a pretty short timeframe, without much time to train or get up to speed, and expecting it to be worthy of a big contract is pretty silly. Army and Hitch share the blame on that. But you have to wonder, especially if you're a GM, if he would re-gain his production in a more sheltered role where less was demanded of him. That might be worth gambling on. For a player that produced more than Gaborik (I can list a lot more than just him, but that was a name that popped out to me earlier today) this year, maybe that's not that big of a leap of faith, especially for only 2 years. Especially if you know it's going to take a few years to put your team together, like it took Atlanta, or Winnipeg, or Columbus, etc etc etc. Risk is part of the business of running an expansion team. It hasn't worked out well for anyone yet, but there isn't much else you can really do.

I feel like people are looking at McPhee and expecting that he's going to work over every franchise in the league and milk them for everything they've got. He's not in the position of strength you think he is. In the 2000 ED we lost Jamie McLennan and Scott Pellerin. In 99 we lost Terry Yake. In 98 it was the incomparable Blair Atcheynum after sending them Darren Turcotte not to select Jamie McLennan (we really liked McLennan). Given what else is available around the league, and what else we have to offer, I'm not convinced that Lehtera isn't the best option available from us, given what his perceived potential around the league is likely to be.

 

[MortiestOfMortys]

For example, this Barry Trotz quote from 1997 when he and Dave Poile were going after his first roster in Nashville:

"There is always the hope someone who hasn’t had the kind of success they’ve hoped for or hasn’t met expectations can find something here,” Trotz said. “We’re realistic, though, we know the skill level may not be there right away, nobody’s going to expose scorers for us to take.”

http://www.thehockeynews.com/news/a...on-predators-were-building-their-first-roster

 

[Robb_K]

Woah. No way.

I'd much rather part with draft picks or prospects who are not close to NHL ready. Sanford is far too valuable because of the tempo of the Blues' window.

But if it comes down to the scenario you outlined, I think they'd just buy him out. Retained salary would also add value to Lehtera and be preferable from the Blues point of view.

I'd rather keep Sanford right now because he's got offensive sense, good skating, a long reach, soft hands and a decent shot. If he can add the strength and bulk he needs to stay on his skates with contact, and to hold position and win puck battles, he'll be a late bloomer "windfall", like Parayko was. The kid has a decent work ethic, so, I think it'll be worth waiting a year or 2 to see if he can do what he needs to do to be an effective Top 6er, AND, if the added strength and stability on his skates gives him more confidence, to develop an edge of physicality and chipiness to his game. We're hoping for similar development from Thompson. The Blues have lots more assets they can use to try to entice The Knights to draft Lehterä.

 

[MortiestOfMortys]

In 1999, when the Thrashers took Terry Yake from the Blues, he was tied for the most goals scored from expansion-drafted forwards with nine goals, tied with Mike Stapleton of Pheonix.

http://www.southcoasttoday.com/article/19990626/News/306269935?start=2

If Vegas is honest with themselves, they will know that they will not have peers in this league next year. Even the Yotes are far, far ahead of where they will end up at the start of next season. Nevertheless, the Rams effect will be in place: if you can't bring in an audience with at least a marginally entertaining product, why on earth would anyone in Vegas go see a hockey game (IN THE DESERT) when there are so many other more entertaining things to do in Vegas. Lehtera is not a player that will carry your team and make them entertaining, but his chops are good enough that he can set up plays and make some nifty highlight-reel passes. Given an opportunity that suits him, he could contribute enough to keep them afloat until they get a passable team in place. Probably not, but he's shown enough to merit a second chance on a new team. Even as bad as he's been, being a 20-30 point player isn't terrible, ignoring the contract (which, again, you have to assume Vegas would be fine with).

Saying Vegas wouldn't want to take Lehtera over someone else on our team just doesn't seem right to me.

 

[Evocable Manager]

And this is the point where your entire argument hinges. What were those first games all about? To answer that, you've got to think about the context.

Lehtera comes in to the NHL, and gets to play with one of the best players in the league and his old linemate. The chemistry is clearly still there, he is quick and physical and all the rest of it. But then, like you identified, it caught up with him, and he regressed a ton. There's two ways to explain that drop from the .9's to the .4's, imo.

Possibility 1: he was a fresh face, and the book wasn't out on him yet. He got 20-30 games in, video of his game got out, teams figured out how to shut him down, and the rest is history. If this is true, he probably can't overcome it, and your premise is plausible. I still disagree about his contract being an issue for Vegas one way or another, but let's shelve that for the time being.

Possibility 2: He's a fresh face, and the coaching staff didn't get their nails into him until about 20-30 games into the season. I'll be the first to admit that I was a staunch defender of Hitch during his time here, and I still think that some of the things that got blamed on him were sort of silly, but I think the Yeo regime is showing us that there were factors at play that were negatively affecting us. You see it in Hitch's interviews and his twitter takeover today with the Stars. I'd be very interested to see if Lehtera's zone starts changed at all between the first group of games and the rest, or how the QoC changed. It seems likely to me that after Lehtera was given time to just go out there and play, like Yeo has encouraged our young players to do, Hitch & co started pushing him to play *their* game and not his. For a guy who spent the vast majority of his career outside of the NHL, demanding that sort of adjustment in a pretty short timeframe, without much time to train or get up to speed, and expecting it to be worthy of a big contract is pretty silly. Army and Hitch share the blame on that. But you have to wonder, especially if you're a GM, if he would re-gain his production in a more sheltered role where less was demanded of him. That might be worth gambling on. For a player that produced more than Gaborik (I can list a lot more than just him, but that was a name that popped out to me earlier today) this year, maybe that's not that big of a leap of faith, especially for only 2 years. Especially if you know it's going to take a few years to put your team together, like it took Atlanta, or Winnipeg, or Columbus, etc etc etc. Risk is part of the business of running an expansion team. It hasn't worked out well for anyone yet, but there isn't much else you can really do.

I feel like people are looking at McPhee and expecting that he's going to work over every franchise in the league and milk them for everything they've got. He's not in the position of strength you think he is. In the 2000 ED we lost Jamie McLennan and Scott Pellerin. In 99 we lost Terry Yake. In 98 it was the incomparable Blair Atcheynum after sending them Darren Turcotte not to select Jamie McLennan (we really liked McLennan). Given what else is available around the league, and what else we have to offer, I'm not convinced that Lehtera isn't the best option available from us, given what his perceived potential around the league is likely to be.

Marian Gaborik is 35 and his first season was 2000-2001. He's played 16 NHL seasons, has had 7 30 goal seasons, 3 40 goal seasons and has almost 800 points, 400 goals and 1000 games.

This season he has 21 points in 56 games, one less point than Lehtera in 8 less games. The last two seasons he's had a low shot% (career average is around 12, he shot around 8). He's simply aging and was given a stupid contract because he was part of a championship team. But he is still outproducing Lehtera. Why was Lehtera given a stupid contract? I don't know, because I don't know what Armstrong was thinking.

Also, what form is Lehtera regaining? Are you claiming that a 23 game sample size is more credible than a 195 game sample size?

This theory that Hitch may have ruined him could have merit, but have you noticed a dramatic change in the way he plays? He simply scored at a unsustainable rate and as one should've expected, dropped off a cliff. His game is the same.

If teams figured out how to shutdown Lehtera, why is the book on Tarasenko so hard? 21 points in 23 games is an incredible scoring rate. If a player is truly elite, he can sustain scoring at this rate because he is too good to stop. It's why Ovechkin has been such a lethal scorer over his career despite everyone knowing about his one timer.

There's an off chance Vegas takes him simply to help cap. But even of they need to reach the floor, there will be options. They can simply overpay for players in UFA to fill the roster holes on short term deals. With the expansion draft, they should look for youngish players who have some type of untapped potential. I think it'd make more sense to take one of Lindbohm or Jaskin because these guys are cheap, young and there is something there. And I know everyone rips on Jaskin, but he isn't that bad, he just isn't very productive on offense, but he's still a better player than Lehtera IMO, especially when you factor in contract.

 

[TruBlu]

Let's just hope the Caps resign Shatty. We can use that 2nd to entice Vegas to take Lehtera.