Half-Assed GDT: Blues NHL draft + FA market 2020

[bleedblue1223]

The obvious problem with this tweet is that we have been largely successful and have won a Cup. We're really only lost Pietrangelo because of that policy, but we also didn't meet his other requests, so it's not like if Army gave him a full NMC, he would've signed, he still wanted a certain amount of money per year and bonus structure. We aren't a destination for elite free agents either. We've signed multiple players to long-term deals. That policy and the group of teams with us on it is not a problem.

 

[mike1320]

The obvious problem with this tweet is that we have been largely successful and have won a Cup. We're really only lost Pietrangelo because of that policy, but we also didn't meet his other requests, so it's not like if Army gave him a full NMC, he would've signed, he still wanted a certain amount of money per year and bonus structure. We aren't a destination for elite free agents either. We've signed multiple players to long-term deals. That policy and the group of teams with us on it is not a problem.

But this mess is 100% Army's fault. Petro gave the Blues every chance he possibly could before he just HAD to move on and sign a deal with an expansion team.

 

[Xerloris]

TBH guys we owed this to Vegas. They did us the biggest f***ing favor any team could have done. They broke the curse of of the Blues losing in the cup finals in their first year. Do you really think it's a coincidence that as soon as another team took that from us that we won the cup the very next season? I think not.

 

[CitizenSnips]

God damn, for the 800th time during this fiasco: No one - aside from people who were fine with letting Petro walk and making bad faith arguments - has ever said or believed this! It's this handy strawman a not insignificant portion of this board is using, but I assure you no one has made this argument. The most generous people have gotten is saying they don't win that Cup without him (which I think is fair, you may disagree, but ultimately we have no way of knowing). Or alternatively, folks -including myself- believe they are not legitimate Cup contenders without him and how the team is currently constructed (which even goes beyond Pietrangelo walking). But that is not the same thing as saying the only reason the Blues won is because of Pietrangelo. I think his contributions to the Cup win have been steadily diminished over the past month or so but that is neither here nor there.

Sorry I kinda went off on you specifically. I know you mentioned that he was big part of the Cup run in your post and it isn't personal. I've just seen this posted many, many times and it is just a false representation of what is actually going on.

I would be willing to say it is not a strawman, its just a fact. I do not feel like going out to find specific posts especially since you put the "people who were fine with letting him walk" clause in because that could be taken out of context or just people being inconsistent. I do not feel we got better over the past year but I also do not think DA just let him walk. They put a deal on the table that was fair and he walked away from it. Thats all there is too it.

I think we wouldn't win the cup without him but also believe we can win the cup moving forward without him. I wouldn't say its false representation and its just frustrating to see people say we are not legit contenders. One player can push a team over the edge, I won't deny that, but just because he didn't value the offer we gave him isn't a reason to say the difference between Petro/JBow and Krug/Faulk pulls us out of contention.

I don't take your post personally and there is no reason to apologize. I feel the same when I want to blow up on people for saying Faulk/Krug were replacements for Petro and/or they are the reason we couldn't sign him etc. Its just false. If Petro wanted to resign for a reasonable amount, no way DA lets him walk. As this unfolded, I get more of a feeling of Petro just not wanting to be here for any number of reasons nobody but DA, his agent, and himself know.

 

[JoshFromMO]

Here's the structure on his contract

 

[Vladys Gumption]

Here's the structure on his contract

So it’s half the value in signing bonuses. Which is pretty much as I figured.

 

[BlueKnight]

 

[JoshFromMO]

So I’ve half the value in signing bonuses. Which is pretty much as I figured.

I can't see in any way where St. Louis could match something like this contract

 

[Vladys Gumption]

I can't see in any way where St. Louis could match something like this contract

I’m sure we could in theory, but as an organizational philosophy I don’t think we ever would. Not saying I agree with it.

 

[bleedblue1223]

I’m sure we could in theory, but as an organizational philosophy I don’t think we ever would. Not saying I agree with it.

We traded for O'Reilly, so it's not that we are against signing bonuses, but signing bonuses in early 30s are different from late 30s, so I'm sure that played a factor.

 

[mk80]

It's concerning... Armstrong was willing to make the team worse in the short-term because he was afraid of the chance that the club might be worse in years 5-7 of the deal. Yet guys who are worthy of NMC are also likely prideful to the point that if their play fell off dramatically and the club really wanted them gone they'd rather play elsewhere rather than be sat. So really, what's the risk of giving a NMC-clause to a guy when you've already essentially given NM-contracts to guys like Faulk and Schenn? Those two guys at their rates will be just as difficult to move at the end of their career as a Pietrangelo would with his contract-language. And it turns out $8M x 8-years (maybe 7) with a NMC likely would have gotten a deal done in St. Louis. Considering the Blues will have been paying $7.5M/year to Tarasenko for the bulk of 2-lost seasons, it's unfathomable that $8M/yr x 2 years (at the end of a contract) would be such an albatross...especially when the cap will presumably begin rising again in a few years.

It's now water under the bridge, but with the off-season upon us I have no issues with anybody questioning how this played out. Armstrong deserves all the scrutiny he's earned with this one as he's directly responsible for downgrading his team willingly. Ottawa, New Jersey and the Isles are the ONLY teams without a NMC on the books? Unbelievable.

Yes offering him the NMC would have got the deal done, along with the bonuses, but he was much more willing to negotiate those and actual salary based on everything reported as long as he had the NMC.

Armstrong blew it due to his personal philosophy:

“When you give someone a no-movement clause, they basically have more power in your organization than the owner does,” Armstrong said. “I don’t really understand the logic of that. I know guys don’t want to move around or go on waivers. But just the thought of a player having more power than the owner, it doesn’t make sense to me. But, with Alex, there was a no-movement clause that we included there. It was partial. It was for certain years. It was to protect him at the end of his contract. Plus, a signing bonus that we don’t do, that we talked to Alex about, too. Alex, I treated him differently than we treated anybody else.”

link to article: BenFred: Blame Armstrong if you like, but Blues GM made it clear how hard team pushed for Pietrangelo

While yes we did offer some NMC years, Petro was looking for it for the length of the contract, and Vegas saw that as a no brained because they know they’re keeping him the duration of that. If an NMC and some signing bonuses is what it takes to sign that level of elite talent that you know you’re keeping anyway, you absolutely do it. Instead of tiring up money in stupid NTC contracts to guys like Faulk, and Krug which will be tough to move because of salary and performance

 

[Vladys Gumption]

We traded for O'Reilly, so it's not that we are against signing bonuses, but signing bonuses in early 30s are different from late 30s, so I'm sure that played a factor.

While agree with you, I don’t know that we can look at it the same way. We were okay with acquiring ROR, but have we ever given signing bonuses ourselves?

 

[bleedblue1223]

While agree with you, I don’t know that we can look at it the same way. We were okay with acquiring ROR, but have we ever given signing bonuses ourselves?

Right, I agree. I think Army and ownership was probably fine make an exception, like we did with ROR, but it had to be on their terms. I don't think signing bonuses over the first few years would've been a problem, but that's not really what Petro wanted. So it ends up being like the NMC, where were are willing to make an exception for him, but not a full exception.

 

[Vladys Gumption]

Right, I agree. I think Army and ownership was probably fine make an exception, like we did with ROR, but it had to be on their terms. I don't think signing bonuses over the first few years would've been a problem, but that's not really what Petro wanted. So it ends up being like the NMC, where were are willing to make an exception for him, but not a full exception.

Right. Which means, as long as that’s the organizational philosophy we as fans better be prepared to watch any homegrown elite players walk away. Because it’s going to be extremely difficult to get guys to sign.

 

[Ranksu]

Who is ROR and Parayko's agent? Newport?

 

[BlueKnight]

Right. Which means, as long as that’s the organizational philosophy we as fans better be prepared to watch any homegrown elite players walk away. Because it’s going to be extremely difficult to get guys to sign.

Yes this. Be prepared to watch Colt walk in 2 years

 

[bleedblue1223]

Right. Which means, as long as that’s the organizational philosophy we as fans better be prepared to watch any homegrown elite players walk away. Because it’s going to be extremely difficult to get guys to sign.

Possibly. Bonuses and NMC have become a newer trend, so we'll just have to wait for our next elite player to go through the process. I'm not even sure anyone currently on the roster qualifies. Maybe Parayko depending on his FA class? We'll see how O'Reilly ages when he's due for free agency. Schwartz is in Schenn class, so I don't think he gets exceptions. Parayko realistically is more in their class as far as status, but if he's the top D that year, teams will give him the structure he wants.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Who is ROR and Parayko's agent? Newport?

O'Reilly is Newport, Parayko is Gerry Johannson with The Sports Corporation.

 

[The Note]

Who is ROR and Parayko's agent? Newport?

ROR is represented by Newport. Parayko's agent represents some guys with some big contracts in Lucic, Price, and Seabrook among others.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

Who is ROR and Parayko's agent? Newport?

Meehan is Pietro's agent, and Pat Morris is ROR's agent. If I remember correctly. Not sure about Parayko.

 

[Ranksu]

O'Reilly is Newport, Parayko is Gerry Johannson with The Sports Corporation.

ROR is represented by Newport. Parayko's agent represents some guys with some big contracts in Lucic, Price, and Seabrook among others.

Meehan is Pietro's agent, and Pat Morris is ROR's agent. If I remember correctly. Not sure about Parayko.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

ROR is Pat Morris's highest paid Player. Other players under him are Monahan, James Neal, and Vince Dunn. Definitely not the hard ass like Meehan tho.

 

[President Skroob]

But this mess is 100% Army's fault. Petro gave the Blues every chance he possibly could before he just HAD to move on and sign a deal with an expansion team.

No, he didn’t.

 

[mike1320]

No, he didn’t.

sarcasm, dude. Sarcasm

 

[DoubleK81]

Yes offering him the NMC would have got the deal done, along with the bonuses, but he was much more willing to negotiate those and actual salary based on everything reported as long as he had the NMC.

Armstrong blew it due to his personal philosophy:

You really think so?