OT: Blues get Bouwmeester

[RedWingsNow*]

Kyle Quincey was traded to replace leaving Brad Stuart. Shouldn't this be clear for everybody already?

Wings traded for a PP defenseman to replace their hard-hitting, hardnosed PK guy?

 

[PullHard]

Wings traded for a PP defenseman to replace their hard-hitting, hardnosed PK guy?

I've also wondered why that logic was so readily accepted around these boards. Doesn't add up to me.

 

[Henkka]

Wings traded for a PP defenseman to replace their hard-hitting, hardnosed PK guy?

Nope. He was projected to be a defensive defenceman...

AND

...look how we have used him. As a PK defenceman, off from the power-play.

Just like Brad Stuart was used.

Quincey has been converted from his "wrong" role (in other organizations) back what he was predicted to be as a Red Wings prospect.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Suter really looks like a great Norris-caliber guy. Front-runner to win the Norris and biggest thing for Wild's great season compared to last season. Too bad his girlfriend said no for Detroit.

How has this Sammy-signing prevented our prospects from development? He has played total of 51 minutes and all his lost minutes have gone to a prospect.



Kyle Quincey was traded to replace leaving Brad Stuart. Shouldn't this be clear for everybody already?

he is nothing like brad stuart

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Nope. He was projected to be a defensive defenceman...

AND

...look how we have used him. As a PK defenceman, off from the power-play.

Just like Brad Stuart was used.

Quincey has been converted from his "wrong" role (in other organizations) back what he was predicted to be as a Red Wings prospect.

so we gave up a first rd pick for a bottom pairing PK specialist dman only?

 

[Fugu]

We had Lidstrom and we were playing for the President's trophy. Nobody predicted everyone would get injured right afterwords. Nobody. Now we don't have Lidstrom. This team isn't in the shape that you dump assets into winning now. But in any case, bringing up Quincey is hypocritical. Because if it's bad asset management to dump a first for Quincey (which then at the time would have been useless anyways), then certainly it follows that a 1st for Bouwmeester at this point in time is also bad asset management.

I've been a steadfast Q supporter, but I am having trouble with this decision, to be honest. JBo is young enough (he's Ericsson's age!) to merit the Flames' asking price. He wasn't a pure rental because he has one more year left, so enough time to get him to re-sign. He's the kind of D that Holland has been trying to land for some time via free agency. I just don't see how you justify giving up a first for Q last year, but then balk at getting JBo for a similar package, even if you have to part with a slightly better prospect.

 

[Henkka]

I just don't see how you justify giving up a first for Q last year, but then balk at getting JBo for a similar package, even if you have to part with a slightly better prospect.

Giving up a 1st at last year was giving up a 29th pick in a bad draft (regarding to 1st round talents) with 2nd best record in the league.

Giving up a 1st at this year is giving up a ~15th pick in a deeper draft and this current team could also collapse to an even higher pick.

Those 1sts just have a totally different value.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

Giving up a 1st at last year was giving up a 29th pick in a bad draft (regarding to 1st round talents) with 2nd best record in the league.

Giving up a 1st at this year is giving up a ~15th pick in a deeper draft and this current team could also collapse to an even higher pick.

Those 1sts just have a totally different value.

There are no sure things at 15-to-20 in the draft.

This idea is a construct of draft-nerd hockey fans and bored sportswriters.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

so we gave up a first rd pick for a bottom pairing PK specialist dman only?

KQ as PK specialist

 

[SoupNazi]

From LeBrun this morning:



I would've moved the first. Oh well.

Then you would've been leading the charge to fire Holland for trading the 1st if/when we missed the playoffs.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

Then you would've been leading the charge to fire Holland for trading the 1st if/when we missed the playoffs.

Only way this team misses the playoffs is if Datsyuk or Zetterberg are injured for a lengthy stretch

 

[Henkka]

There are no sure things at 15-to-20 in the draft.

You need really something relaxing pills.

Ken Holland stated this in some article year ago. They felt that the draft does not have that kind of talent that the value of a low 1st rounder isn't very high. He said something that "there's maybe 15 guys.."

This year is different. Just like Ken Holland has stated that "he won't trade his 1st for any price", clearly because the becoming draft is better.

Our management knows these things better than any of us in here and Holland has talked about these things. Common opinion about the becoming draft is also the same. We are also lower in the standings.

Other draft analysts are saying the same. Wise people who are paid money to be professionals at their job are saying the same, and you other message board brainiacs are arguing against all the time. That's called trolling.

 

[SoupNazi]

Only way this team misses the playoffs is if Datsyuk or Zetterberg are injured for a lengthy stretch

Or maybe they just falter and play like **** and fall out of the race.

It could possibly happen. Look at the standings. We're not that far out of being out of the playoffs.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Giving up a 1st at last year was giving up a 29th pick in a bad draft (regarding to 1st round talents) with 2nd best record in the league.

Giving up a 1st at this year is giving up a ~15th pick in a deeper draft and this current team could also collapse to an even higher pick.

Those 1sts just have a totally different value.

yes I agree we were 2nd overall at the feb trade deadline but i dont remember any hockey analyst stating they believed detroit would be in the cup finals at that time and thus that 29th overall pick was clearly going to be lower

furthermore knowing full well how old lidstrom was at the time, wouldnt the pick have been better served holding onto it to draft a dman or use it in a deal to acquire a proper top 3 dman?

if we believed we were a stanely cup finalist team why did we acquire quincey? was he what we needed to go from losing in the cup finals to winning? is quincey a playoff rental type guy teams clamour over like an iggy or morrow or clowe?

or did we acquire quincey because we knew we would be losing lidstrom soon and thus wanted to start mitigating his loss, if so, then wow what a terrible way to go about it.

 

[Fugu]

Giving up a 1st at last year was giving up a 29th pick in a bad draft (regarding to 1st round talents) with 2nd best record in the league.

Giving up a 1st at this year is giving up a ~15th pick in a deeper draft and this current team could also collapse to an even higher pick.

Those 1sts just have a totally different value.

I'm not sure where the Wings will end up yet, but... that is the wrong way to frame the question.

Here's the way I would frame it. 1) What are the odds that you will draft someone like JBo in this year's draft at that position? (2) When will that player be ready?

We have a 29 yr old defenseman playing peak hockey for years now who is the same age as a guy we invested 3-4 yrs to develop just to this point.

JBo could be a player that's with the Wings for another ten years. That IS worth a first round pick because you're not going to find another guy like that easily on the UFA market, or in your draft position.

 

[Fugu]

yes I agree we were 2nd overall at the feb trade deadline but i dont remember any hockey analyst stating they believed detroit would be in the cup finals at that time and thus that 29th overall pick was clearly going to be lower

furthermore knowing full well how old lidstrom was at the time, wouldnt the pick have been better served holding onto it to draft a dman or use it in a deal to acquire a proper top 3 dman?

if we believed we were a stanely cup finalist team why did we acquire quincey? was he what we needed to go from losing in the cup finals to winning? is quincey a playoff rental type guy teams clamour over like an iggy or morrow or clowe?

or did we acquire quincey because we knew we would be losing lidstrom soon and thus wanted to start mitigating his loss, if so, then wow what a terrible way to go about it.

I still don't mind that Holland traded for Quincey. The Wings knew they were losing Stuart AND Lidstrom, and knew they might have cap issues to boot. Quincey was a middle class defenseman that let them plug some of the holes they were going to have with the middle, and then let them chase after Suter or someone of his ilk in the UFA market. Holland also knew that middle class D weren't going to be much cheaper than Q, and they knew him as a player, system, etc. It was a defensible position, imho.

What I am saying though is if you can defend that decision (as I just did), then I can build a far stronger case to give up a package like St Louis did for JBo. That's what I find a bit mystifying about the Wings decision. It wasn't salary because they knew his salary situation when they picked up the phone, started talking assets and picks. That wasn't the sticking point. If it really was just that 1st round pick, I don't know what to tell you.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

I'm not sure where the Wings will end up yet, but... that is the wrong way to frame the question.

Here's the way I would frame it. 1) What are the odds that you will draft someone like JBo in this year's draft at that position? (2) When will that player be ready?

We have a 29 yr old defenseman playing peak hockey for years now who is the same age as a guy we invested 3-4 yrs to develop just to this point.

JBo could be a player that's with the Wings for another ten years. That IS worth a first round pick because you're not going to find another guy like that easily on the UFA market, or in your draft position.

The other thing to consider is the number of NHL-caliber prospects we have in our system.

The Wings prospect system has NEVER been this rich, as far as I can remember.

 

[Run the Jewels]

More from LeBrun:


Huh. Wonder where that bolded line came from.

People can stop hyperventilating about giving up a first in this draft. Calgary accepted a 2014 first rounder. So again: Q is worth a first but Bouwmeester is not?

 

[sepster]

People can stop hyperventilating about giving up a first in this draft. Calgary accepted a 2014 first rounder. So again: Q is worth a first but Bouwmeester is not?

Isn't the 1st conditional on whether St Louis makes the playoffs or not? 2013 if they are in, 2014 if they are out? I thought that is what I read over on the blues board.

 

[Henkka]

Isn't the 1st conditional on whether St Louis makes the playoffs or not? 2013 if they are in, 2014 if they are out? I thought that is what I read over on the blues board.

Yes, this is how it goes. If the Blues will crash down, they will keep their own and higher pick in a great draft.

 

[SoupNazi]

Isn't the 1st conditional on whether St Louis makes the playoffs or not? 2013 if they are in, 2014 if they are out? I thought that is what I read over on the blues board.

That's correct.

 

[Henkka]

yes I agree we were 2nd overall at the feb trade deadline but i dont remember any hockey analyst stating they believed detroit would be in the cup finals at that time and thus that 29th overall pick was clearly going to be lower

furthermore knowing full well how old lidstrom was at the time, wouldnt the pick have been better served holding onto it to draft a dman or use it in a deal to acquire a proper top 3 dman?

if we believed we were a stanely cup finalist team why did we acquire quincey? was he what we needed to go from losing in the cup finals to winning? is quincey a playoff rental type guy teams clamour over like an iggy or morrow or clowe?

or did we acquire quincey because we knew we would be losing lidstrom soon and thus wanted to start mitigating his loss, if so, then wow what a terrible way to go about it.

But Quincey wasn't a playoff rental. He was aquired for future season services when Stuart and Lidström are leaving. That also gave defensive depth for the 2012 season at same time. Why is this so hard to understand?

They traded for Quincey to replace Stuart half of a year earlier, because free agency does not guarantee anything. Trade gives you a guaranteed player, in this case RFA player.

Then they went after UFA Suter trying to replace Lidström. But like free agency does not guarantee anything, this later one didn't happen.

Pretty clear plan if you think a minute of it.

And what has happened at this season, is that Quincey is used at Stuart's role. No power-play. 1st PK with Ericsson. Like it was planned.

 

[Run the Jewels]

Isn't the 1st conditional on whether St Louis makes the playoffs or not? 2013 if they are in, 2014 if they are out? I thought that is what I read over on the blues board.

Lebrun said St Louis structured the deal so that the Flames get their 2014 first rounder. I don't know how connected he is but it sounds like the issue was giving up a first, even if it's in 2014. So again: Q is worth a 1st but Bouwmeester is not? Sure seems like Kenny's pucker muscle went into BEASTMODE.

 

[Huddy*]

Roy now to Vancouver for pick/ prospect

another good forward the wings just missed on again.

holland

 

[SoupNazi]

Roy now to Vancouver for pick/ prospect

another good forward the wings just missed on again.

holland

Yes. Stupid Holland for missing out on a rental.