OT: Blues get Bouwmeester

[Ricelund]

From Duhatschek:

The complication in making the deal, for Flames general manager Jay Feaster, was the $6.68-million (all currency U.S.) owed Bouwmeester on next year’s contract, which disqualified many other possible suitors from bidding for his services. Sources indicated that only the Detroit Red Wings had the cap space and the interest to inquire after Bouwmeester.

Where's Crymson? I thought the Red Wings had no interest in Bouwmeester.

 

[Bench]

The only knock against him at all would be his age

Well, and that he's not all that amazing at that nice list of qualities you typed out. He's middle of the road as they come for a top 2 guy.

He's a nice depth piece, but if you want him to log any real minutes you're in trouble. Dallas' record with him in their top 2 is all you need to see. And this is with Kari playing lights in net out the last few years.

That said, he's a character guy, has a warrior heart, and I'd love him a billion times more on the Wings than JBo. Alas, I'd rather simply play Kindl and Smith in those minutes.

 

[vladdy16]

Ehhhhh idk about that.

Pairing Smith with somebody who is responsible and not a total moron might give him the confidence to jump in more.

Kronwall needs a baby sitter to thrive.

Right now Ericsson is the Wings best baby sitter...........yikes.


You might be right, but some stability on the blue line might help.

For sure. We did lose Stuart in addition to Lidstrom and Rafalski. I was never a huge Stuart fan, but wow did he do a great job filling the role of stay at home d-man, while also being capable of moving the puck quick and chipping in in the o zone. We need someone like that for Smith, who I thought looked phenomenal last year, playing with no fear jumping up and in all over the rink. This year, with our more... simple approach, Smith looks darn near average.

Just in general though, I think you can find the 2-3 guys to play responsibly with talented players a lot easier than you can find the talented players to begin with. At his age Bouwmeester would've been a nice asset to work around.

I hope Kindl can continue to develop. He has the frame and mobility to be a great defensive player, but he is WAY too passive. To play with Kronwall or Smith or whatever you gotta put the fire out quick, whereas Kindl tries too hard not to error and instead slowly folds defensively.

I think the Red Wings are in a world of hurt if they decide to continue to try to develop our station to station net front game. There will be so many leaks in management style, so many growing pains on the ice, and so many tempting states of mediocre.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

Well, and that he's not all that amazing at that nice list of qualities you typed out. He's middle of the road as they come for a top 2 guy.

He's a nice depth piece, but if you want him to log any real minutes you're in trouble. Dallas' record with him in their top 2 is all you need to see. And this is with Kari playing lights in net out the last few years.

That said, he's a character guy, has a warrior heart, and I'd love him a billion times more on the Wings than JBo. Alas, I'd rather simply play Kindl and Smith in those minutes.

That's cool.

I can get behind playing the kids, too.


What I want is a GM who makes a decision. Are we going to go for it and get our top 4D and Sniper RW?

Or do we sell?

Just decide.

What I think is that Holland may not have the balls to do either.

In which case, he needs to be fired.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

I agree with that too (the last sentence) but if we add Bouwmeester I think it handcuffs us attempting to upgrade at forward without adding significant salary in both deals.

For all we know salary might be the reason the Flames took the Blues package over whatever Holland offered. Perhaps they didn't want to take Quincey's 4 million dollar contract when they are rebuilding and cutting costs.

It does. But it handcuffs us in a good way.

We're far more likely to buy out a Sammy and move a Quincey if we have to overpay a Bouwmeester and Gaborik.

It will force us to dump overpriced vets and use youth in their place.

 

[jaster]

Holland has already stated that he's interested in a top-4 dman or top-6/9 forward. He went after Bouwmeester. He's obviously a buyer. So what is this yammering about him needing to make a decision on which strategy to adopt all about?

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

From Duhatschek:



Where's Crymson? I thought the Red Wings had no interest in Bouwmeester.

Not surprising, now I would like to hear what they demanded from us?

Did they insist on a better package, are they just ridiculously high on the Blues goalie over in NLA?

We might find out, if it is 1st, Pulkkinen, and Almqvist go ahead light the torch.

What if it was a 1st and Mrazek, heck they want even another prospect on top of that? Not so great anymore....

 

[RedWingsNow*]

Holland has already stated that he's interested in a top-4 dman or top-6/9 forward. He went after Bouwmeester. He's obviously a buyer. So what is this yammering about him needing to make a decision on which strategy to adopt all about?

Going after them and getting them are two different things.

 

[FlashyG]

Not surprising, now I would like to hear what they demanded from us?

Did they insist on a better package, are they just ridiculously high on the Blues goalie over in NLA?

We might find out, if it is 1st, Pulkkinen, and Almqvist go ahead light the torch.

What if it was a 1st and Mrazek, heck they want even another prospect on top of that? Not so great anymore....

Just speculation on my part but since the Blues tried to get Calgary to eat some of his salary and the Flames refused, its possible the Wings did the same but didn't relent when Calgary wouldn't eat any of his cost.

 

[jaster]

Going after them and getting them are two different things.

Indeed. So, again, why is it being said that Holland needs to decide on a strategy, and then proceeding to hypothesize that he's too weak to do anything but sit on his hands, in which case he needs to be fired? Seems pretty obvious that none of that is the case.

So are we hereby making the transition from 'Holland sucks because he didn't go after Bouwmeester and still has Tatar in GR' to 'Holland sucks because he went after Bouwmeester and didn't get him'?

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Just speculation on my part but since the Blues tried to get Calgary to eat some of his salary and the Flames refused, its possible the Wings did the same but didn't relent when Calgary wouldn't eat any of his cost.

Flames Ownership is really stupid for not eating a couple million dollars of that. I am not a JayBo fan but I don't even argue about sending a decent amount for him if they make him a 4.5 million cap player. They are cutting costs and rebuilding anyway, might as well take 2 million to 3 million and a little change over the next 12 games and a season. The asset difference in my opinion would have been monumental as would have the difference in bidders.

That ownership group has kept them from rebuilding for years and now is even careless in doing it. People can hate Feaster and think he is dumb, but I have a feeling Calgary ownership will preclude them from ever being anything.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

Indeed. So, again, why is it being said that Holland needs to decide on a strategy, and then proceeding to hypothesize that he's too weak to do anything but sit on his hands, in which case he needs to be fired? Seems pretty obvious that none of that is the case.

So are we hereby making the transition from 'Holland sucks because he didn't go after Bouwmeester and still has Tatar in GR' to 'Holland sucks because he went after Bouwmeester and didn't get him'?

It's one thing to say "I want a top 4 defenseman and top 6 winger."

it's another thing to actually make the offers it takes to get them.

When you decide, you go in and you make the offers to get things done.

You don't say "We kicked some tires and couldn't find the right deal."

If Ken Holland decides to improve, to me that implies he's going to do it.
It might not be Bouwmeester. It might be someone else.

You're either buying or selling here.

Doing nothing is a terrible option.

 

[Mickey Redmond*]

I'm glad we didn't give up a number 1 for Bouwmeester.

 

[jaster]

It's one thing to say "I want a top 4 defenseman and top 6 winger."

it's another thing to actually make the offers it takes to get them.

When you decide, you go in and you make the offers to get things done.

You don't say "We kicked some tires and couldn't find the right deal."

If Ken Holland decides to improve, to me that implies he's going to do it.
It might not be Bouwmeester. It might be someone else.

You're either buying or selling here.

Doing nothing is a terrible option.

Overpaying is also a poor option. And while the equivalent to what St Louis gave up is Adam Almqvist, the rights to Daniel Larsson, and a 1st (Quincey, as a trade chip, is not a comparable, nor does he make any sense, given what Calgary is trying to do), which is cheap, no one here can say for sure that that would get it done. We have a different farm than the Blues, and Calgary scouts and management likely value Wings and Blues prospects somewhat differently than we do. I don't know whether they were asking for Mrazek or not, but I certainly don't think it's out of the realm of possibility, or even likelihood. And if they were, I can certainly understand the Wings balking at that.

 

[PullHard]

Overpaying is also a poor option. And while the equivalent to what St Louis gave up is Adam Almqvist, the rights to Daniel Larsson, and a 1st (Quincey, as a trade chip, is not a comparable, nor does he make any sense, given what Calgary is trying to do), which is cheap, no one here can say for sure that that would get it done. We have a different farm than the Blues, and Calgary scouts and management likely value Wings and Blues prospects somewhat differently than we do. I don't know whether they were asking for Mrazek or not, but I certainly don't think it's out of the realm of possibility, or even likelihood. And if they were, I can certainly understand the Wings balking at that.

I think what he is meaning is that if it is Wednesday at 11AM and it seems really obvious to Kenny that prices aren't working for him, he recognizes that standing pat isn't an option. It would then be time to move redundant UFA vets for assets moving forward. BUT, we are likely to stand pat in that situation, much to everyone's dismay.

Then we hear:
We tried for/ kicked the tires on _______
Player X, Y, and Z are like deadline acquisitions for us, now that they are healthy
We like our group
The market was/ prices were ______ (excuse) [fans response: so... you did nothing instead?]

I get that mortgaging the future for a JBo isn't wise (I was vehemently against the idea), or whoever the player may be, but doing nothing simply doesn't seem like an option at this point. Kenny has to recognize that the path we are on is a long, slow march to the pits of mediocrity, joining the ranks of Mid2000s Leafs and Late2000s Flames. Standing pat now, and failing to do anything noteworthy in the immediate future (next offseason), would basically be like signing his resignation for ~5 years down the road. The results aren't going to be there when guys like Drew Miller and Justin Abdelkader are in your top 6, while your most ready prospects are playing bottom 6 minutes/ are in the AHL. If the results aren't going to be mostly consistently positive, why bury prospects and promote guys who are literally next to retired/ are depth forwards? This horse been kicked to mush by now, but just going with the same tired, hackneyed excuses is pathetic at this point. It is time to recognize our window has closed and do what needs to be done.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

Overpaying is also a poor option. And while the equivalent to what St Louis gave up is Adam Almqvist, the rights to Daniel Larsson, and a 1st (Quincey, as a trade chip, is not a comparable, nor does he make any sense, given what Calgary is trying to do), which is cheap, no one here can say for sure that that would get it done. We have a different farm than the Blues, and Calgary scouts and management likely value Wings and Blues prospects somewhat differently than we do. I don't know whether they were asking for Mrazek or not, but I certainly don't think it's out of the realm of possibility, or even likelihood. And if they were, I can certainly understand the Wings balking at that.

After three years of the "no one here can say for sure" excuse, it's the same result:
Kenny isn't getting it done.

Now, if he can get it done -- more power to him. He's got time to make deals.

But I want results. Not excuses.

 

[Bench]

What I want is a GM who makes a decision.

Brian Burke, step right up.

Believe it or not, I'd actually be fine with that.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Brian Burke, step right up.

Believe it or not, I'd actually be fine with that.

I think most of us know how this plays out if Holland is no longer GM. He moves up the food chain and Jim Nill is the GM.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

Brian Burke, step right up.

Believe it or not, I'd actually be fine with that.

Burke's problem was his loyalty to his old coach.
He actually built a decent team in TO...

I just want Ken Holland to swing about half way back to his wild Kenny days.

He's too complacent

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

dont worry he will trade for yandle or gaborik at the deadline

but if not it will be because no team should ever give up a 1st rounder for some middle pairing dman or 2nd line forward(hmmm?)

and if not come July 1st we will so be the top choice for the years biggest UFA

but if not it will be because of factors outside our control

and if not we will be all in for whatever big name star player asks for a trade

but if not it will be because teams dont want to trade with detroit and our prospect pool is so amazing we shouldnt even consider moving one of them

blah blah blah

 

[Chris 84]

i understand the views about holland's inaction, but i don't understand why anyone cares about not going hard at j-bo. the guy just isn't very good, has a horrible contract (oh, and he curses every team he plays for :p )
i'll be annoyed if we don't do something semi-major, but not as annoyed as if we'd grabbed j-bo.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

i understand the views about holland's inaction, but i don't understand why anyone cares about not going hard at j-bo. the guy just isn't very good, has a horrible contract (oh, and he curses every team he plays for :p )
i'll be annoyed if we don't do something semi-major, but not as annoyed as if we'd grabbed j-bo.

not sure if believing in witchcraft is the best way to go about building a team, as otherwise I wouldnt want jarome Iginla and his never winning a stanely cup curse on my team....

 

[joe89]

Prior to Bouw getting dealt: No way we give up our 1st for him, not worth it. Quincey/White + 3rd!
Bouw gets dealt to STL mainly for a 1st: Oh dear why wasn't Kenny in on this steal!

Hindsight is always good for amusement.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Prior to Bouw getting dealt: No way we give up our 1st for him, not worth it. Quincey/White + 3rd!
Bouw gets dealt to STL mainly for a 1st: Oh dear why wasn't Kenny in on this steal!

Hindsight is always good for amusement.

its not hindsight for those who have been calling for it for the past 12 months and more, in thoses cases its called hockey intelligence...

 

[joe89]

its not hindsight for those who have been calling for it for the past 12 months and more, in thoses cases its called hockey intelligence...

Calling for what?

I wanted Bouwmeester personally, but a 1st rounder was the one thing I wouldn't give up and I'm fine with this. I would have dealt one of our dozen wing prospects however, but Flames were obviously more interested in picking their own blue chipper through the draft.