OT: Blues Forum Lounge (Home of All Things OT) - Part XII

[ManyIdeas]

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Here ya go, I guess...

Sorry if it doesn't auto re-size.

 

[Klank Loves You]

Americans still doesn't believe global warming?

Opinions > facts for a large portion of the U.S. currently.

 

[Dbrownss]

Here ya go, I guess...

Sorry if it doesn't auto re-size.

Hahaha, my post was 4 thumbs up.


Great looking car man, congrats.

 

[Dbrownss]

Opinions > facts for a large portion of the U.S. currently.

Call it what it is...********.

 

[Bobby Orrtuzzo]

God this thread turned into a roller coaster rather quickly in the last few days

 

[Bluesnatic27]

God this thread turned into a roller coaster rather quickly in the last few days

I liked it better when we all posted Cowboy Bebop gifs and praised the Lord, our savior, Parayko.

 

[TheDizee]

LOL global warming, thats as real as bigfoot.

 

[Celtic Note]

Opinions > facts for a large portion of the U.S. currently.

I would say it has more to do with people A: not wanting to hold themselves accountable and/or B: wanting to live in an alternate reality.

Or maybe science is just made up? We have already seen that the US is falling behind academically in the area of science. So, we must not value it as much as some others. The funny thing is that science has driven innovation and therefore our economy since the inception of our country and yet, we don't care enough to make strides teaching our children about science.

 

[Klank Loves You]

I would say it has more to do with people A: not wanting to hold themselves accountable and/or B: wanting to live in an alternate reality.

Or maybe science is just made up? We have already seen that the US is falling behind academically in the area of science. So, we must not value it as much as some others. The funny thing is that science has driven innovation and therefore our economy since the inception of our country and yet, we don't care enough to make strides teaching our children about science.

There is a sort of anti-intellectualism culture in the U.S. I know rational adults who "disagree" with scientists. Skepticism is an important attribute, but valuing your opinion over someone who has dedicated their life to discovering the truth is illogical. The public education system is in shambles, and The Secretary of Education is determined to undermine even that.

 

[Celtic Note]

There is a sort of anti-intellectualism culture in the U.S. I know rational adults who "disagree" with scientists. Skepticism is an important attribute, but valuing your opinion over someone who has dedicated their life to discovering the truth is illogical. The public education system is in shambles, and The Secretary of Education is determined to undermine even that.

Anti-intellectualism is a good way of putting it. Hopefully that ship turns around quickly!

 

[bleedblue1223]

The vast majority of people believe in climate change. Where the divide is, is coming up with realistic measures to control it. That Paris agreement was so incredibly unrealistic, that it was essentially meaningless.

Our 2 political sides are so dysfunctional right now, that they can't even have a reasonable discussion on stuff like that. Lawyers don't always make the best politicians, and the current politicians like many before them, only care about winning. Winning an argument and elections, and that's what lawyers do in private practice. Only selective facts matter.

The problem is much deeper than just this administration, this administration is the result of years of incompetence on both sides. The extreme party split has been going on for years.

 

[bleedblue1223]

 

[Dbrownss]

I feel another issue with the climate change issue is its cast as a Human only problem. Climate change occurs natuarally but humans are impacting it and accelerating it.

 

[bleedblue1223]

I feel another issue with the climate change issue is its cast as a Human only problem. Climate change occurs natuarally but humans are impacting it and accelerating it.

Yeah, this distinction does not get made enough in the political discussions. Most reasonable people I talk with accept this. The climate has always changed, and will always changed. It's undeniable that humans have played apart in the change as well.

Another thing is, there is a view or at least the way the discussions go, that anything humans do that harms the environment is a net negative on society. Most of the things accomplished since the industrial revolution have had a net positive, but we are coming to a point, where we can become more efficient and less impactful on the environment, we just need to determine and economical approach to it. Unfortunately we can't get any meaningful discussions to that point.

I think it will just take more individuals backing up their talk. The more individuals invest in certain things like solar panels on their house or hybrid/electric cars, then the more the conversation will be forced to come up IMO. I'm not a fan of hypocritical discussions and then just waiting for the government to force something to happen. If we convince private companies that consumers want to go in a more green direction, then the country will naturally go green, and that will make for the most efficient solutions and best innovations.

 

[Falco Lombardi]

I work with people who absolutely believe humans have done nothing to harm the environment.

Of course some of them also legit believe the earth is flat and that Lincoln would be a Republican today so there you go.

 

[Dbrownss]

Yeah, this distinction does not get made enough in the political discussions. Most reasonable people I talk with accept this. The climate has always changed, and will always changed. It's undeniable that humans have played apart in the change as well.

Another thing is, there is a view or at least the way the discussions go, that anything humans do that harms the environment is a net negative on society. Most of the things accomplished since the industrial revolution have had a net positive, but we are coming to a point, where we can become more efficient and less impactful on the environment, we just need to determine and economical approach to it. Unfortunately we can't get any meaningful discussions to that point.

I think it will just take more individuals backing up their talk. The more individuals invest in certain things like solar panels on their house or hybrid/electric cars, then the more the conversation will be forced to come up IMO. I'm not a fan of hypocritical discussions and then just waiting for the government to force something to happen. If we convince private companies that consumers want to go in a more green direction, then the country will naturally go green, and that will make for the most efficient solutions and best innovations.

Completely agree with you in this. I would only differ in the government's role. During the Obama administration, they set unrealistic goals for the auto industry and fuel mileage. Imo i saw it as a calculated bet. Fuel mileage drastically increased in vehicles and as they put real effort forward, the requirements became more lenient. Companies will sell what sells.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Does anyone have more detailed information on education or take a greater interest in it? Does anyone now if we have less top individuals that we used to have or more students scoring lower? Or both?

I think school just isn't tough enough during the school day, and then kids waste hours at home with inefficient homework. I know when I was at school, I'd finish my work in the quarter of time of most of the others, then finish my homework, and then twiddle my thumbs.

I don't have as much interest in this topic as I do others in the political spectrum, but wasn't sure if we have been producing less top talent or if it's just more individuals pulling it down. Kind of the chicken and the egg, but anecdotally, in Hazelwood it was more people pulling it down, which meant more focus on them, and less upper level classes, and less challenges for the advanced. Now Hazelwood is a complete disaster of a district with messed up politics in their admin.

 

[bleedblue1223]

I work with people who absolutely believe humans have done nothing to harm the environment.

Of course some of them also legit believe the earth is flat and that Lincoln would be a Republican today so there you go.

Yeah, those people definitely exist, but they exist in all societies.

I'm of the believe that while it's unfortunate, there is simply no hope in getting them to realize facts. It's sort of like trying to make a die-hard racist not be a racist. We should try to make them change, but ultimately, I just don't think there is any hope.

As for Lincoln, I think he'd be disgusted with both parties. I do think the founding fathers would be proud that the system of checks and balances was worked perfectly and will continue to.

 

[Dbrownss]

Does anyone have more detailed information on education or take a greater interest in it? Does anyone now if we have less top individuals that we used to have or more students scoring lower? Or both?

I think school just isn't tough enough during the school day, and then kids waste hours at home with inefficient homework. I know when I was at school, I'd finish my work in the quarter of time of most of the others, then finish my homework, and then twiddle my thumbs.

I don't have as much interest in this topic as I do others in the political spectrum, but wasn't sure if we have been producing less top talent or if it's just more individuals pulling it down. Kind of the chicken and the egg, but anecdotally, in Hazelwood it was more people pulling it down, which meant more focus on them, and less upper level classes, and less challenges for the advanced. Now Hazelwood is a complete disaster of a district with messed up politics in their admin.

I can only comment from my education to my children's education(1st & 4th). What my kids are doing now is what I did several grades higher. There seems to be a heavy emphasis on mathematics(common core) and reading then other subjects. I rarely see work brought home involving Science or History.

My boys are in a Missouri Blue Ribbon recipient, so their shool is viewed as one of the best in the State. They push kids hard there, and it shows

 

[542365]

Does anyone have more detailed information on education or take a greater interest in it? Does anyone now if we have less top individuals that we used to have or more students scoring lower? Or both?

I think school just isn't tough enough during the school day, and then kids waste hours at home with inefficient homework. I know when I was at school, I'd finish my work in the quarter of time of most of the others, then finish my homework, and then twiddle my thumbs.

I don't have as much interest in this topic as I do others in the political spectrum, but wasn't sure if we have been producing less top talent or if it's just more individuals pulling it down. Kind of the chicken and the egg, but anecdotally, in Hazelwood it was more people pulling it down, which meant more focus on them, and less upper level classes, and less challenges for the advanced. Now Hazelwood is a complete disaster of a district with messed up politics in their admin.

I am a teacher so I'd say I take pretty great interest in it.

Simply put, in my opinion we're behind the times. Much of education hasn't changed since the industrial revolution where the purpose of school was to create efficient factory workers who you could plug and place at any factory in the world and they would do great things. Americans, in general, are very good at following directions, meeting deadlines, and finishing tasks quickly. Americans(again, in general) are not good at thinking critically, avoiding bias, and really anything that requires creativity. Again, we have creative individuals in our society, but we don't have the same proportion as other top countries because our school system doesn't value creativity. It values timeliness, it obedience, it values compliance. The way we teach kids in large part hasn't changed in over 100 years while the society around us has grown leaps and bounds. It just doesn't make any sense what we're doing(and I include myself in that because I teach kids pretty much the same way I was taught as this is how kids score best on standardized tests, which pretty much determine the fate of districts, schools, and individual teachers.)

We have to move on from the idea that kids must be held accountable solely through testing. There are many other ways to show competency in a given discipline that doesn't involve sitting with a paper and pencil and taking a test over it.

Think of all of the tests you took in school. Everyone can picture it pretty easily. Kids are sitting spaced out, dead silent, staring at the paper in front of them and answering rather irrelevant questions as it pertains to real life. Now how often do you do that at your job? Does anyone sit and take tests like that? You're tested by your productivity, you're tested by your ability to collaborate, to formulate new and interesting ideas or products, to form relationships with co-workers and clients etc. It just doesn't add up. We're not properly preparing kids for the actual professions they will have. We're not preparing kids to be innovative, to be problem solvers, to be risk takers. We're preparing them to be a cog in a machine that doesn't exist anymore for the most part.

I try my best to teach kids to be quality human beings. That's my main goal. Work well with one another, build and maintain relationships, solve problems both independently and collaboratively etc. Still, at the end of the day I am held accountable for their performance on a standardized test. We review the data at the start of every school year. We brainstorm ways to be more efficient, to "teach" more content over the course of a school year, or to better teach the content we already use. There is very little positive recognition for creating good humans, you are recognized positively for creating good test takers.

I will say that we are trending in the right direction. My district has been giving us more and more freedom to experiment and try new things and fail, but that test is still there at the end of the year. I'm still judged by those scores. They get published in the papers, they get talked about at countless meetings, they get scrutinized down to the very skill each question supposedly assesses. I hope that one day we collectively realize these tests aren't indicative of future success and are thus pointless, but we're not there yet.

 

[Dbrownss]

MattyMo, would you say critical thinking is one of the reasons for the push towards singapore mathmatics? When I go over homework with my son, ive noticed its more about understanding the equation, and the numbers involed, as opposed to just answering it. I butt heads with people over common core math, its real simple if you spend a little time to understand it.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Well put, and along the lines of what my thoughts were. It's amazing that when in college and we asked people in the industry how much of what they learned in the university helped or applied to real-world, they all said very little.

Individuals that excel are the individuals where critical thinking comes naturally.

I wish our country would listen to the experts to develop better policies. Lets have teachers input on education, healthcare workers input on healthcare, tax accountants input on tax policy, etc.

 

[542365]

MattyMo, would you say critical thinking is one of the reasons for the push towards singapore mathmatics? When I go over homework with my son, ive noticed its more about understanding the equation, and the numbers involed, as opposed to just answering it. I butt heads with people over common core math, its real simple if you spend a little time to understand it.

I'm not super familiar with the math side of things, but my understanding is that they want kids to not only be able to solve that type of equation that they're looking at, but also understand how it relates to other, more complex equations. I believe the idea is to get them thinking more in an abstract manner rather than simply trying to be a human calculator. Getting the answer is important, but I think the idea is that they want kids to understand both HOW they got the answer, and WHY that answer actually matters, or how it could help them in the future. It's also designed to teach fewer concepts in a year, but to go much deeper into that concept so students truly master it rather than memorize it for the test and move on. Again, not a math guy, but that's my understanding from talking with some of our math teachers.

 

[Dbrownss]

I'm not super familiar with the math side of things, but my understanding is that they want kids to not only be able to solve that type of equation that they're looking at, but also understand how it relates to other, more complex equations. I believe the idea is to get them thinking more in an abstract manner rather than simply trying to be a human calculator. Getting the answer is important, but I think the idea is that they want kids to understand both HOW they got the answer, and WHY that answer actually matters, or how it could help them in the future. It's also designed to teach fewer concepts in a year, but to go much deeper into that concept so students truly master it rather than memorize it for the test and move on. Again, not a math guy, but that's my understanding from talking with some of our math teachers.

Thats pretty much on par with what a friend of mine told me. He's actually one of the teachers on the committee that picks the curriculum

 

[aceoutdoor]

Yeah, those people definitely exist, but they exist in all societies.

I'm of the believe that while it's unfortunate, there is simply no hope in getting them to realize facts. It's sort of like trying to make a die-hard racist not be a racist. We should try to make them change, but ultimately, I just don't think there is any hope.

As for Lincoln, I think he'd be disgusted with both parties. I do think the founding fathers would be proud that the system of checks and balances was worked perfectly and will continue to.

If "racism" disgust you, you would be revolted by many of Lincoln's comments and plans for the country's future that are not commonly mentioned. He was certainly not the man most believe he is.