OT: Blues Forum Lounge (Home of All Things OT) - Part XII

[Dbrownss]

If "racism" disgust you, you would be revolted by many of Lincoln's comments and plans for the country's future that are not commonly mentioned. He was certainly not the man most believe he is.

This is true, but given the time....you take what you can get. From comments I've read, Lincoln was a white supremacist in his outlook on race. Although i would argue if he was raised in the 21st century....he wouldn't be. He was progressive in that sense

 

[aceoutdoor]

He in general doubted ONE race to ever be able to considerably contribute to our society and to be able to sustain themselves and he wanted them all deported post war. He felt ALL other races not just his own would be able to contribute to society and sustain themselves. Do you consider that mindset white supremacy considering he felt favorably about all other races except one?

 

[Dbrownss]

He in general doubted ONE race to ever be able to considerably contribute to our society and to be able to sustain themselves and he wanted them all deported post war. He felt ALL other races not just his own would be able to contribute to society and sustain themselves. Do you consider that mindset white supremacy considering he felt favorably about all other races except one?

I can't say ive read everything he's said, but I did say he would be one. I merely said that if he was raised in a different era, his mindset may be differerent.

 

[Falco Lombardi]

If "racism" disgust you, you would be revolted by many of Lincoln's comments and plans for the country's future that are not commonly mentioned. He was certainly not the man most believe he is.

See while you're not wrong, there's also context not being taken into account. For his time, Lincoln was better than most. If he was born today, he'd be more progressive.

People evolve over time. It's why I think having such a strict interpretation of the Constitution is bad. People and ideas evolve.

 

[bleedblue1223]

If "racism" disgust you, you would be revolted by many of Lincoln's comments and plans for the country's future that are not commonly mentioned. He was certainly not the man most believe he is.

My point about Lincoln wasn't just about race though, it's about how inept the parties are, and how discussion devolve so quickly.

It's all relative to the time period that they existed in. Like Washington and Jefferson, they owned slaves, but we shouldn't think that they'd be racist or have those views if they were born in today's society.

At white supremacist in the era of Lincoln had much worse views on race than Lincoln. White supremacist's at the time viewed blacks as property, not people.

That's why we need the confederate statues and such in museums, so we can understand the context of our history, and try not to repeat it. We can't remove our dark history or look at history in today's context. Generations that didn't experience the horrors of the past have to understand how the horrors happened, why it happened, what really happened, and what stopped it.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

See while you're not wrong, there's also context not being taken into account. For his time, Lincoln was better than most. If he was born today, he'd be more progressive.

People evolve over time. It's why I think having such a strict interpretation of the Constitution is bad. People and ideas evolve.

Oooohhh!

Are we starting to get into Scalia's hatred of the living, breathing document?

 

[ChicagoBlues]

The vast majority of people believe in climate change. Where the divide is, is coming up with realistic measures to control it. That Paris agreement was so incredibly unrealistic, that it was essentially meaningless.

Our 2 political sides are so dysfunctional right now, that they can't even have a reasonable discussion on stuff like that. Lawyers don't always make the best politicians, and the current politicians like many before them, only care about winning. Winning an argument and elections, and that's what lawyers do in private practice. Only selective facts matter.

The problem is much deeper than just this administration, this administration is the result of years of incompetence on both sides. The extreme party split has been going on for years.

And too many of the wrong type of people go into law.

This country needs a strong public administration and public policy culture.

We have enough JDs and MBAs in politics.

 

[bleedblue1223]

And too many of the wrong type of people go into law.

This country needs a strong public administration and public policy culture.

We have enough JDs and MBAs in politics.

I mean, we have a ton of policy sci grads, granted most go to law school, but I think the bigger issue is the party split. I can't remember where I saw the graphic, but it showed of the congressional member over the years, how far they were to the left and right. Since about the 80's when there were still plenty in the middle, the shift has been getting wider and wider, and there are more and more on the extreme left and right. When you have the extremes in congress, you really don't get many meaningful discussions. Even if the discussion is actually civil, they are just so far apart that they just can't come to anything agreeable.

 

[MissouriMook]

I mean, we have a ton of policy sci grads, granted most go to law school, but I think the bigger issue is the party split. I can't remember where I saw the graphic, but it showed of the congressional member over the years, how far they were to the left and right. Since about the 80's when there were still plenty in the middle, the shift has been getting wider and wider, and there are more and more on the extreme left and right. When you have the extremes in congress, you really don't get many meaningful discussions. Even if the discussion is actually civil, they are just so far apart that they just can't come to anything agreeable.

That's exactly why I think it may be time for a 3rd party in this country. The Ds and the Rs are getting too polarized and spend most of their time blaming the other for what's wrong in this country. Meanwhile, most of the country (probably in the neighborhood of 60-70% I would guess/hope) lies politically from the center-left to the center-right. When you have that much of the population that shares that much common ground, why not create a party that is willing to design policy that satisfies the majority of Americans and actually move issues forward. Sadly, I think the two-party system has become too much of a sacred cow to expect that enough people would be willing to risk their political careers to go down that road.

Full disclosure - I am FAR from being a political scientist, so my perception of how many people may fall into that centrist range may be WAY off, and there is likely far more to the issue of the two party system and creating a third alternative than I have considered. I'm just exhausted by the choices and the rhetoric that both sides have been giving us for quite some time, and the divide seems to be growing rather than shrinking.

Signed, Frustrated American

 

[BlueDream]

I'm not super familiar with the math side of things, but my understanding is that they want kids to not only be able to solve that type of equation that they're looking at, but also understand how it relates to other, more complex equations. I believe the idea is to get them thinking more in an abstract manner rather than simply trying to be a human calculator. Getting the answer is important, but I think the idea is that they want kids to understand both HOW they got the answer, and WHY that answer actually matters, or how it could help them in the future. It's also designed to teach fewer concepts in a year, but to go much deeper into that concept so students truly master it rather than memorize it for the test and move on. Again, not a math guy, but that's my understanding from talking with some of our math teachers.

This definitely is where math is going. I'm only a few years removed from school but most math tests are like this - you only get full points on a question if you show all of your work and HOW you got the answer, and also what the correct answer is. If you simply just write down the correct answer, you lose points. Similarly, even if you get the answer wrong but you show work and it at least makes sense, you will get partial credit.

Now, that's definitely a good idea and I also agree that the typical test-taking methods in schools have to change because in college, I simply memorized the stuff short-term in order to pass the tests. I remember the basic principles of my classes, but hardly remember a lot of the specifics. I am not exactly sure what the best replacement for this would be, but it's definitely true that jobs are way different and the biggest benefit of college is having it on your resume, because most of the skills you learn in a classroom are completely non-existent and rather useless in a work environment. Work experience is way more valuable than any degree IMO. The degree just looks nice on paper.

 

[bleedblue1223]

That's exactly why I think it may be time for a 3rd party in this country. The Ds and the Rs are getting too polarized and spend most of their time blaming the other for what's wrong in this country. Meanwhile, most of the country (probably in the neighborhood of 60-70% I would guess/hope) lies politically from the center-left to the center-right. When you have that much of the population that shares that much common ground, why not create a party that is willing to design policy that satisfies the majority of Americans and actually move issues forward. Sadly, I think the two-party system has become too much of a sacred cow to expect that enough people would be willing to risk their political careers to go down that road.

Full disclosure - I am FAR from being a political scientist, so my perception of how many people may fall into that centrist range may be WAY off, and there is likely far more to the issue of the two party system and creating a third alternative than I have considered. I'm just exhausted by the choices and the rhetoric that both sides have been giving us for quite some time, and the divide seems to be growing rather than shrinking.

Signed, Frustrated American

Independents are roughly 40-50ish%, but of that group, you have significant portions that tend to always vote one way or the other. Someone people interpret that as them truly being Republican or Democrat, but I personally view it as individuals that in reality have say a Libertarian political view, and that is more like the Republicans than Democrats, so they will tend to always vote Republican.

The downside of the 2-party is obviously what we see right now.

The upside is, there is at least a majority of people getting views that they reasonably agree with, but with a 3-4 party system, you could end up having a decent sized minority getting exactly what they want, and the majority getting something that they don't want.

I know a lot of people are really down on the 2-party system and electoral college, but there are reasons why we have it that way. Now, I would like the 3rd parties to have a little more say, so Republicans and Democrats can actually be pushed and challenged on ideas and not just control everything completely. Unfortunately, each side is just pandering to their extreme bases.

 

[Celtic Note]

I mean, we have a ton of policy sci grads, granted most go to law school, but I think the bigger issue is the party split. I can't remember where I saw the graphic, but it showed of the congressional member over the years, how far they were to the left and right. Since about the 80's when there were still plenty in the middle, the shift has been getting wider and wider, and there are more and more on the extreme left and right. When you have the extremes in congress, you really don't get many meaningful discussions. Even if the discussion is actually civil, they are just so far apart that they just can't come to anything agreeable.

I would like to see one of two things happen:

1. No parties. Everyone is held accountable and no one gets to be voted for just because they belong to a party.

2. We add a party that in somewhere in the middle taking the best from both parties.

Number one is ideal. Number two is in part realistic.

 

[Dbrownss]

More idea is to hold people who tell deliberate falsehoods criminally accountable for what they say. People cant even agree on factual information

 

[bleedblue1223]

Magic solution is term limits. No more career politicians, reduces the incentive for people/industries/companies/unions/etc. to buy them.

Politics also needs strict independence rules. Auditors are not allowed to work on an audit of a client if any close relative has any relevant stake in that company, now I realize that's a very basic way of putting it, but I don't want to bore anyone with the details. There needs to be something that prevents politicians and family members from receiving money that isn't actually legitimate. All the speaking fees, high paying jobs for family, or insider tips that these people receive is ridiculous.

I laugh when people call them public servants. They do not act like servants, they use the system as a way to get rich. Public servants my ***.

 

[KirkOut]

This definitely is where math is going. I'm only a few years removed from school but most math tests are like this - you only get full points on a question if you show all of your work and HOW you got the answer, and also what the correct answer is. If you simply just write down the correct answer, you lose points. Similarly, even if you get the answer wrong but you show work and it at least makes sense, you will get partial credit.

Now, that's definitely a good idea and I also agree that the typical test-taking methods in schools have to change because in college, I simply memorized the stuff short-term in order to pass the tests. I remember the basic principles of my classes, but hardly remember a lot of the specifics. I am not exactly sure what the best replacement for this would be, but it's definitely true that jobs are way different and the biggest benefit of college is having it on your resume, because most of the skills you learn in a classroom are completely non-existent and rather useless in a work environment. Work experience is way more valuable than any degree IMO. The degree just looks nice on paper.

One of my more memorable professors took it one step further, and I'm surprised this way of thinking isn't more widespread. Instead of 2 components (correct answer, showing your work correctly), he would grade you on your understanding of what the question was asking. You show your work and take the correct approach, but make an error on your calculator and come up with the incorrect answer, he'd only deduct a few points, if any - as long as the answer made physical sense. If you got to the last question and only had 1 minute left - if you write "I'm out of time, but I think the answer should be roughly X for reasons Y and Z", that alone would probably worth half credit. Conversely, if you circle your final answer and it doesn't make physical sense, he'd give 0 points, even if you took the right steps but made a calculational error. Understanding what the question asks and being able to ballpark predict what the answer should be is probably the most practical-to-real-life aspect of a university test. So if the question is along the lines of "you are operating the reactor at 1000 MW and you withdraw the rods X centimeters for Y seconds, what is the new power level?", and you do everything right but accidentally divide where you should have multiplied in the final step and tell me that the new power is 800 MW, you'd get a big old 0 out of 10 because it doesn't make physical sense. Emphasizing the importance of knowing what the answer should be before you do any calculus or algebra or arithmetic is a real world skill that is pretty important IMO.

 

[TheDizee]

lol rosey

 

[AVictoryDive]

lol rosey

Oh you and your roses bashing obsession.
I would say the home plate umpire was terrible, for both sides, but seemingly extra terrible for the cardinals tonight.

 

[The Note]

I'm glad I didn't spend any money to go see the Cards play out here.

 

[TheDizee]

I'm glad I didn't spend any money to go see the Cards play out here.

awful managing out there

 

[Celtic Note]

This definitely is where math is going. I'm only a few years removed from school but most math tests are like this - you only get full points on a question if you show all of your work and HOW you got the answer, and also what the correct answer is. If you simply just write down the correct answer, you lose points. Similarly, even if you get the answer wrong but you show work and it at least makes sense, you will get partial credit.

Now, that's definitely a good idea and I also agree that the typical test-taking methods in schools have to change because in college, I simply memorized the stuff short-term in order to pass the tests. I remember the basic principles of my classes, but hardly remember a lot of the specifics. I am not exactly sure what the best replacement for this would be, but it's definitely true that jobs are way different and the biggest benefit of college is having it on your resume, because most of the skills you learn in a classroom are completely non-existent and rather useless in a work environment. Work experience is way more valuable than any degree IMO. The degree just looks nice on paper.

I think it all depends on your degree. Without mine, I would be lost coming out of school. Granted my degrees are profession specific. Work experience matters of course, but without fundamental academic knowledge, entry level professionals would be useless. Think of doctors for example. You wouldn't want them learning about the cardio vascular system as they get out a scalpel.

As for generalized degrees, I would have to assume that they are less valuable than work experience.

 

[Spear]

I think it all depends on your degree. Without mine, I would be lost coming out of school. Granted my degrees are profession specific. Work experience matters of course, but without fundamental academic knowledge, entry level professionals would be useless. Think of doctors for example. You wouldn't want them learning about the cardio vascular system as they get out a scalpel.

As for generalized degrees, I would have to assume that they are less valuable than work experience.

That's why they call it "practicing" medicine!

 

[bleedblue1223]

lol rosey

You only show up when he has a bad performance.

 

[MissouriMook]

You only show up when he has a bad performance.

That's actually a good thing because now its only once ever two or three weeks.

 

[BlueDream]

I think it all depends on your degree. Without mine, I would be lost coming out of school. Granted my degrees are profession specific. Work experience matters of course, but without fundamental academic knowledge, entry level professionals would be useless. Think of doctors for example. You wouldn't want them learning about the cardio vascular system as they get out a scalpel.

As for generalized degrees, I would have to assume that they are less valuable than work experience.

Very true, for some reason didn't think of that and I'm not sure why I generalized all degrees, but you're definitely right. Some of the tougher degrees I'm sure they do learn very important stuff.

 

[TheDizee]

waino and rosey hopefully wont pitch again this year. get their arms ready for spring.