Blues Discussion Thread 2018-2019 - Part VII

[JoshFromMO]

I tend to put more stock in the last 5 years of Tarasenko's career plus half of this season instead of December of 2018. And just so everyone knows, Tarasenko has only hit 40 goals once. He's more of a 35+ goal guy. Him hitting 40 is more of a milestone thing, just because it's a number that ends in a zero. He usually gets 35-40 goals. Last year was a down year and he "only" hit 33. This year, he has been on pace for ~35 again. For all we know, he could still hit it with a hat trick tomorrow night.

I wouldn't be surprised if Tarasenko flirts with that number that ends in a zero again.

Or he could blow us all away and score 8 to get 40g. Anything is possible

 

[Blueston]

Half a season is quite a bit more than a couple weeks. He’s one of the best goal scorers in the league. Only Ovi has more over the last five seasons. He’s a true superstar. Don’t downplay half a ****ing season as a”couple hot weeks”.

He’s tied for 32nd in league in goals. Last year he was tied for 23rd. He’s quite good but that’s really stretching definition of superstar.

 

[BlueDream]

He’s tied for 32nd in league in goals. Last year he was tied for 23rd. He’s quite good but that’s really stretching definition of superstar.

Maybe you reserve the term 'superstar' for players like McDavid, Crosby, etc. and if you do, that's fine. I understand that and even agree.

But Tarasenko is 2nd to only Alex Ovechkin (another true superstar) in goals scored over the past 5 years. That is quite an accomplishment.

So whatever you want to call it... star, impact player, cornerstone piece, he is that guy. No he's not a generational talent, but so what.

I was disappointed in him earlier in the season but can admit that the shoulder injury was a bigger factor than I originally believed. He's clearly shown that he's a guy this team absolutely needs. Among forwards on this team, Tarasenko and O'Reilly are on an island by themselves. The Blues can't replace them.

 

[542365]

He’s tied for 32nd in league in goals. Last year he was tied for 23rd. He’s quite good but that’s really stretching definition of superstar.

5 straight 30-30 seasons is unquestionably a superstar.

 

[Blueston]

5 straight 30-30 seasons is unquestionably a superstar.

Superstar is best of best. 5 very nice seasons doesn’t make you superstar. It makes you Paccioretty.

 

[AVictoryDive]

Superstar is best of best. 5 very nice seasons doesn’t make you superstar. It makes you Paccioretty.

Your opinion.
A lot of analysts consider him a superstar especially considering he helps draw fans and has been lauded for his goal scoring and playmaking abilities.
A couple down years where he has over 30 goals and 60 doesn’t take away from that.
Also patches never has had a 70 pt season in his 11 seasons Tarasenko has 3 of them in 7 seasons

 

[Bye Felicia]

Small samples. Players get hot. Steen is scoring at over 50 goal pace in April. I like Tank and there is absolutely real value in 30+ goal scorer but guy is hot for a couple of weeks and suddenly he’s a Brett Hull or Alex Ovechkin.

Nobody is making that argument. But half the season is not just a small sample, and you need to couple that with the fact that there is a very obvious explanation for why it is likely to be more representative than the first half (injury).

I’m not going to argue semantics of terms like “superstar,” but it’s also worth noting that advanced metrics have always unanimously really liked Tarasenko beyond his numbers as a rare winger who drives play and is one of the very best players in the league at creating scoring chances.

 

[Xerloris]

In December he had 2 points and was -11. He like many players runs hot and cold. He is obviously very good player, but the days of him scoring 40 goals are likely past.

So ignore the fact that not only did the team play like total shit for the 1st half but ignore that he had off season shoulder surgery which very drastically effects his shot and physical play.

 

[DoubleK81]

So ignore the fact that not only did the team play like total **** for the 1st half but ignore that he had off season shoulder surgery which very drastically effects his shot and physical play.

You're fighting a losing battle here. Literally any post i've seen by him that mentions Tarasenko, is him bashing or arguing against him.

 

[542365]

Pretty much worst case scenario coming into today. Start the playoffs in Winnipeg. That’s brutal.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

Pretty much worst case scenario coming into today. Start the playoffs in Winnipeg. That’s brutal.

Honestly fine with this. I want the Blues to win the Cup. If they can get past Winnipeg they probably can get past the next opponent. Winnipeg is good but not great.

 

[BlueDream]

Honestly fine with this. I want the Blues to win the Cup. If they can get past Winnipeg they probably can get past the next opponent. Winnipeg is good but not great.

That's the one positive about it. If the Blues win this series I think they could go to the Cup.

But this will be a huge test. I hope the Jets have trouble "flipping the switch."

 

[Blueston]

So ignore the fact that not only did the team play like total **** for the 1st half but ignore that he had off season shoulder surgery which very drastically effects his shot and physical play.

Then why were his numbers good in October and a November? Guy had awful December. In total funk. Had great February. Neither is indicative of what would expect over a full season. He really is a good player. Not sure why so many on here are determined to act as if is truly a great one.

 

[brokeu91]

Pretty much worst case scenario coming into today. Start the playoffs in Winnipeg. That’s brutal.

To be the best you have to beat the best. The Jets never saw this new and improved Blues team. I don't think that they know what they're in for.

 

[Dbrownss]

Pretty much worst case scenario coming into today. Start the playoffs in Winnipeg. That’s brutal.

Last time we played the jets, Blues shut them out 1-0 in their barn.....so.....

They are not a push over but they are NOT some unstoppable force that the media drummed up to start the season. Outside of the Laine 5 goal game where the Blues were at their worst, the jets have ran the Blues over. Game 1 wasnt pretty stat sheet wise but that game got out of hand late in the 3rd.

I'll take the Jets, they havnt been great for awhile now....they finished where they did for a reason.

 

[Dbrownss]

Then why were his numbers good in October and a November? Guy had awful December. In total funk. Had great February. Neither is indicative of what would expect over a full season. He really is a good player. Not sure why so many on here are determined to act as if is truly a great one.

Because anyone with 2 eyes could see a stark difference his shot quality before and after December. He himself said he didn't hurt anymore in January.

 

[ezcreepin]

He’s tied for 32nd in league in goals. Last year he was tied for 23rd. He’s quite good but that’s really stretching definition of superstar.

Shooting % is astronomically high this year. Most of the players who have exceeded 30+ goals are shooting some ridiculous % like 16-20%. That is unsustainable and just unlikely they repeat those same numbers next year. Tarasenko has a body of work before his injury that shows 13-15% and he shoots over 250 shots a year. Bare minimum he scores 32 goals, max is over 40. If you dont think that close to a point per game plus 35-40+ goals is a superstar, then I dont know who is.

 

[Itsnotatrap]

Last time we played the jets, Blues shut them out 1-0 in their barn.....so.....

They are not a push over but they are NOT some unstoppable force that the media drummed up to start the season. Outside of the Laine 5 goal game where the Blues were at their worst, the jets have ran the Blues over. Game 1 wasnt pretty stat sheet wise but that game got out of hand late in the 3rd.

I'll take the Jets, they havnt been great for awhile now....they finished where they did for a reason.

It’s gimmicky and cliche, but you can’t tell me that 5 goal game, and his comments after, don’t stick in the craw of the players. It was a low water mark of the season. Game 3 of the Berube era. They lost to Nashville game 1. They went balls to the wall and beat the Preds up at home game 2. Then, the next night, the Jets just teed up Laine all night....and it looked like the same thing we were seeing before, where the Blues showed flashes one night and then looked terrible the next.

The Jets haven’t seen us in a long while. I can see this working to our favor.

Here’s another small thing to consider. Since we have been chasing this whole season long, we have looked at the games in hand as a positive, largely. However, games in hand the entirety of the last half of the season also means we were on the wrong side of things in terms of rest, in a lot more games than not in recent months. I think Blues fans are not putting enough weight on that, and what that means in terms of what the team accomplished. We’re conditioned to put our guard up in the playoffs, and I get that, and I do that myself, but we are coming into this in great form when you consider all this.

The rest factor resets now. We’re playing on the same days of rest now. Also, look at how the Nashville-Dallas series lags behind with more off days up front. If that series goes deep, it matters.

 

[Itsnotatrap]

TLDR: I’m just inches short of screaming “I believe”, except I know that can’t possibly end well. I’m really a conflicted mess.

 

[Blueston]

Shooting % is astronomically high this year. Most of the players who have exceeded 30+ goals are shooting some ridiculous % like 16-20%. That is unsustainable and just unlikely they repeat those same numbers next year. Tarasenko has a body of work before his injury that shows 13-15% and he shoots over 250 shots a year. Bare minimum he scores 32 goals, max is over 40. If you dont think that close to a point per game plus 35-40+ goals is a superstar, then I dont know who is.

How many superstars do you think there are in the league? He was 54th in points among forwards this year. Last year he was tied for 41st. That doesn’t suggest superstar to me unless we think there are 50 or more superstars in the league.

 

[simon IC]

I think we need to hammer Buff. Just get under his skin. If we do that, he will take bad penalties and be a non-factor. Conversely, if we let him dominate, we are DONE.

 

[Reality Czech]

Then why were his numbers good in October and a November? Guy had awful December. In total funk. Had great February. Neither is indicative of what would expect over a full season. He really is a good player. Not sure why so many on here are determined to act as if is truly a great one.

Probably because he's one of the absolute best at the most important skill in hockey, scoring goals.

Opinions differ. It's ok.

 

[HighNote]

Hey, how come the Blues have never used the end of Pure and Easy by the Who at games? Or have I just never heard it before? 3:25 on...



I petition to have this played after a win, or at least right before the start of a period.

 

[ezcreepin]

How many superstars do you think there are in the league? He was 54th in points among forwards this year. Last year he was tied for 41st. That doesn’t suggest superstar to me unless we think there are 50 or more superstars in the league.

Carey Price was 14th in save % and 12th in gaa in a league with technically 31 starters. Do you still consider him a star goalie? Because I'm sure 99% of the league still views him as one of the bet goalies in the game and can steal a series given he makes the playoffs. Just because Tarasenko isn't always top 5 in points doesn't make him less of a superstar in this league. His greatest skill is scoring goals, and each statistic that comes out has Ovechkin and Tarasenko at the top of that list in goal scoring (whatever the stat may be). You can call it cherry picking on the part of those presenting the stats, but I'd argue that it's just him being one of the best and consistent at scoring goals, a skill I would say makes anyone a star.

 

[HighNote]

Who's the worst perennial 30+ goal player? Skinner? Pacioretty? (although he's been unable to hit 30 lately due to injuries). They are always at least star players. I think Tarasenko is a notch above those star players like Skinner or Laine. It really comes down to how strict or loose you are with the term "superstar." Are there 10 superstar players in the league or 50? Where's the cutoff from superstar to just "star?"

I'd probably say Tarasenko is a top 30 forward.