Blues Discussion Thread 2018-2019 - Part II

[Ranksu]

As far as I know, Perron was never tried with Tarasenko. Perron was used almost exclusively as a RW in 2016/17 and I don't remember him getting LW looks during camp. Tarasenko was practically attached at the hip with Schwartz that season when Schwartz was healthy and Perron didn't get a look there when Schwartza was injured. I don't remember if they were tried together during Tarasenko's rookie year, but I honestly wouldn't put any stock into whether there was/wasn't chemistry back then.

I completely agree with your duos and that we will have a ton of flexibility to fill those "x"s in a variety of ways. But unless Fabbri returns as a player who is at least as good as when he first got hurt, I think Perron at LW is well worth trying. His hockey IQ with the puck is much better than it was in his first stint with the Blues and he looked amazing finding Neal in the high slot all season last year. The best aspect of Perron's game last season was creating space via stickhandling, allowing Neal to find a soft spot in coverage and then getting him the puck for a quick wrist shot. That's exactly what he would be doing with Tarasenko. Neal likes the one-timer way more than Tarasenko, so it's not a guarantee to work out, but I don't see anything that tells me ha can't play with Tarasenko. Certainly not enough to write it off as something that isn't worth trying in camp.

I looked up 2016-2017 season line combinations. This were our most used lineups generally.

Fabbri - Lehterä - Tarasenko
Schwartz - Stastny - Steen
Jaskin/X - Berglund - Perron
Upshall - Brodziak - Reaves

X=Pääjärvi/Yakupov/Barbashev

Then look here you can search By Perron and lurk which were his linemates % + these are only EV combos so we don't get confused By powerplay time together. There is a lot of different type of combinations where Perron play with Tarasenko.

This is nitpicking, but I didn't just like what I saw Perron with Tarasenko., Generally his lack of foot speed isn't in my mind best option with Tarasenko and biggest minus is he isn't anyway physical player what that line would need. Schwartrz and Fabbri (Maroon) can grind in corners.

I bet they will try out Perron with Tarasenko, but just my assumption he will not qualify for that job. If he can, then hell I'm glad to be wrong.

 

[Brian39]

Then look here you can search By Perron and lurk which were his linemates % + these are only EV combos so we don't get confused By powerplay time together. There is a lot of different type of combinations where Perron play with Tarasenko.

This is nitpicking, but I didn't just like what I saw Perron with Tarasenko., Generally his lack of foot speed isn't in my mind best option with Tarasenko and biggest minus is he isn't anyway physical player what that line would need. Schwartrz and Fabbri (Maroon) can grind in corners.

I bet they will try out Perron with Tarasenko, but just my assumption he will not qualify for that job. If he can, then hell I'm glad to be wrong.

That chart doesn't support the claim that they were played together at all. The only combination on that front page with Perron and Tarasenko on the same line states that they were together for .82% of our even strength minutes. Perron had 8 line combinations that were more frequent than him being with Tarasenko on a line in any capacity. We had about 4000 even strength minutes as a team that season. That means that the Perron-Lehtera-Tarasenko unit was out there together for a total of about 33 minutes.

The next most frequent group was .57% of even strength ice time and Schwartz was the 3rd forward. That's another 23 minutes or so and no one in that line is a true center. The next most frequent was at .29% of even strength time and Steen was the 3rd forward. That's another 12 minutes. The next most frequent line with Perron and Tarasenko together made up .16% of the team's even strength minutes. That's about 6 total minutes. Every combination beyond that accounts for less than .1%, so I'm not going to bother.

That's less than 80 minutes together at even strength over an entire season and at least half that time was on a line centered by a guy who isn't actually a center. you can find these connections with any two players on the same team. This in no way suggests that they were tried together. Upshall played on a line with Schenn and Tarasenko for .65% of our even strength time this year and Upshall-Stasnty-Tarasenko was a line .18% of the time. That in no way suggests that Upshall was tried with Tarasenko and just didn't have chemistry.

These charts are impacted by guys getting stuck on the ice together due to a partially completed line change or someone coming out of the penalty box and joining the PK unit in the zone. Less than 80 minutes together over an entire season means that there were maybe 5 games where they were on a line together (and probably less).

 

[Ranksu]

That chart doesn't support the claim that they were played together at all. The only combination on that front page with Perron and Tarasenko on the same line states that they were together for .82% of our even strength minutes. Perron had 8 line combinations that were more frequent than him being with Tarasenko on a line in any capacity. We had about 4000 even strength minutes as a team that season. That means that the Perron-Lehtera-Tarasenko unit was out there together for a total of about 33 minutes.

The next most frequent group was .57% of even strength ice time and Schwartz was the 3rd forward. That's another 23 minutes or so and no one in that line is a true center. The next most frequent was at .29% of even strength time and Steen was the 3rd forward. That's another 12 minutes. The next most frequent line with Perron and Tarasenko together made up .16% of the team's even strength minutes. That's about 6 total minutes. Every combination beyond that accounts for less than .1%, so I'm not going to bother.

That's less than 80 minutes together at even strength over an entire season and at least half that time was on a line centered by a guy who isn't actually a center. you can find these connections with any two players on the same team. This in no way suggests that they were tried together. Upshall played on a line with Schenn and Tarasenko for .65% of our even strength time this year and Upshall-Stasnty-Tarasenko was a line .18% of the time. That in no way suggests that Upshall was tried with Tarasenko and just didn't have chemistry.

These charts are impacted by guys getting stuck on the ice together due to a partially completed line change or someone coming out of the penalty box and joining the PK unit in the zone. Less than 80 minutes together over an entire season means that there were maybe 5 games where they were on a line together (and probably less).

All I Said Perron didn't in My eyes mesh well with Tarasenko. If he would he would get More icetime with Tarasenko. Yes they didn't play a lot together, but I did get impression it didn't work out.

Wasn't that season when Fabbri get injuried and Upshall did get change to play top6?

 

[BlueDream]

Interesting. Was that in one of the videos about? Must’ve missed that.

Yeah here's the interview, he talks about it at the end:

https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/video/seguin...-jokes-about-being-the-best-gm-he-can~1475342

Also has some comments about Fabbri in the middle.

 

[Spektre]

The latest article in The Athletic has the Blues having the 8th most likely team to win the Cup. A current player, executive, coach, and Custance all vote and the average score is given.

1. Lightning
2. Nashville
3. Capitals
4. Jets
5. Toronto
6. Boston
7. Pittsburgh
8. Blues

That’s close to the current Vegas odds that has the Blues at 10th most likely to win the Cup.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

I

I looked up 2016-2017 season line combinations. This were our most used lineups generally.

Fabbri - Lehterä - Tarasenko
Schwartz - Stastny - Steen
Jaskin/X - Berglund - Perron
Upshall - Brodziak - Reaves

X=Pääjärvi/Yakupov/Barbashev

Then look here you can search By Perron and lurk which were his linemates % + these are only EV combos so we don't get confused By powerplay time together. There is a lot of different type of combinations where Perron play with Tarasenko.

This is nitpicking, but I didn't just like what I saw Perron with Tarasenko., Generally his lack of foot speed isn't in my mind best option with Tarasenko and biggest minus is he isn't anyway physical player what that line would need. Schwartrz and Fabbri (Maroon) can grind in corners.

I bet they will try out Perron with Tarasenko, but just my assumption he will not qualify for that job. If he can, then hell I'm glad to be wrong.

I agree that Perron is not an ideal linemate for Tarasenko, but I also don’t think that is a likely choice either. Also, in hindsight how much was Fabbri helping Lehtera look more effective?

I see Tarasenko with:
Maroon-O’Reilly-Tarasenko
Or
Fabbri-O’Reilly-Tarasenko

Just off the cuff, maybe starts with Maroon and a healthy Fabbri forces his way up the lineup as the season progresses. But to start the year:
Maroon - O’Reilly - Tarasenko
Schwartz - Schenn - Perron
Fabbri - Bozak - Steen (I could also see Steen and Maroon switch, but not a big fan of that idea)
4th line no idea. Thomas centering some combo of Jaskin, Shoshnikov, Sanford, Barbashev. And Thorburn as the designated scratch.

They’ll play Thomas with shifts with top 9 players. We could even see Bozak relegated to the “4th” line with
Fabbri - Thomas - Steen

But in fact, if Fabbri is the guy we saw before, he’ll be on the top line. I like:
Maroon - Thomas - Steen
That’s a good line for a rookie to break into the league with that will cause a lot of heartburn for opposing coaches.

I guess I’m just not seeing a likelihood of Perron being put on Tarasenko’s line.

 

[BlueDream]

I think the ideal top 6 is:

Fabbri-O'Reilly-Tarasenko
Schwartz-Schenn-Perron

This is of course Fabbri returns to full form but if that happens, those are 2 lethal lines. Those are our 6 best forwards in terms of pure skill.

 

[Captain Creampuff]

I think the ideal top 6 is:

Fabbri-O'Reilly-Tarasenko
Schwartz-Schenn-Perron

This is of course Fabbri returns to full form but if that happens, those are 2 lethal lines. Those are our 6 best forwards in terms of pure skill.

This would be ideal but I'm sure they will try to force Steen into a Top 6 role which I don't like.

 

[BlueDream]

This would be ideal but I'm sure they will try to force Steen into a Top 6 role which I don't like.

I hope he's glued to Bozak's hip on the 3rd line, I think that'd be a pretty nice duo. I'd rather have Maroon, Thomas, or even Kyrou in the top 6.

And that's not a knock on Steener. I'm still a fan of his. But we just don't need him in the top 6. We have the depth now to cut down his minutes and hopefully keep him healthier throughout the year.

I also think we should allow him to focus mainly on the PK this year when it comes to special teams. I don't even feel the need to put him on the powerplay.

Fabbri, ROR, Tarasenko, Schwartz, Schenn, Perron, Bozak, Maroon, Thomas/Kyrou are all guys I'd rather see on the powerplay. That's 9 forwards. Not even counting Petro, Parayko, Dunn and even Schmaltz/Edmundson on defense. Of course Steen can fill in anywhere when injuries hit which is great, but this is what I'd start off with.

 

[STL fan in MN]

I try to not get too hung up on line combos during the summer but to me, a lot hinges on Fabbri. If he can step right and and be top-6 caliber, then that really changes things.

But my guess is they be pretty cautious with him and he plays somewhat limited 3rd line minutes to start.

But I’ll also say that I could see the Blues putting together a great 3rd line...a 3rd line that could end up being the best line on a particular night and thus getting treated as the 1st line by Yeo. To me, I see more of a pretty even top-9. And so many combos that could be put together. I suspect Yeo will try countless combos, especially with so many new guys.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

I see 2 maybe 3 main competitions that will have the biggest impact on the forward combos. Not only out of training camp, but thought the early weeks of the season.

1) Who plays in the Top 6 LW, Maroon or Fabbri? Almost certainly Fabbri starts 3rd line. And under some circumstances even if he’s more productive than Maroon he stays on the 3rd line (to balance the lines overall better).

2) Is Thomas a better center than Bozak? I don’t mean his projections, I mean his immediate production. If so it’s easy to see Bozak on the 4th line by a few months into the season (if everyone is healthy). What kind of 4th line would Yeo make it then? Can a skilled 4th line that is getting limited minutes still play the “energy” role? I think so.

3) Is Perron more effective than Steen at RW? I see Steen on the 3rd line to start (probably with Fabbri and Bozak). I really like that line a l0t. But if Perron is not meshing with Schwartz and Schenn, I could see him flipping with Steen.

However it shakes out, the Blues should have an advantage in the 3rd and 4th line matchups against virtually everyone.

 

[STL fan in MN]

I see 2 maybe 3 main competitions that will have the biggest impact on the forward combos. Not only out of training camp, but thought the early weeks of the season.

1) Who plays in the Top 6 LW, Maroon or Fabbri? Almost certainly Fabbri starts 3rd line. And under some circumstances even if he’s more productive than Maroon he stays on the 3rd line (to balance the lines overall better).

2) Is Thomas a better center than Bozak? I don’t mean his projections, I mean his immediate production. If so it’s easy to see Bozak on the 4th line by a few months into the season (if everyone is healthy). What kind of 4th line would Yeo make it then? Can a skilled 4th line that is getting limited minutes still play the “energy” role? I think so.

3) Is Perron more effective than Steen at RW? I see Steen on the 3rd line to start (probably with Fabbri and Bozak). I really like that line a l0t. But if Perron is not meshing with Schwartz and Schenn, I could see him flipping with Steen.

However it shakes out, the Blues should have an advantage in the 3rd and 4th line matchups against virtually everyone.

I’d be fairly surprised to see Bozak moved to the 4th line unless he was playing horribly. He’s been a middle-tier 2C to very good 3C for a while now IMO. They didn’t sign him to $5M/year to play 4th line.

To me, if Thomas is really pressing for more playing time, the more likely option IMO is to either have Thomas move to RW in the top-9 or move Schenn back to RW and go with ROR, Thomas and Bozak as the top 3 Cs. I know Schenn would prefer to play C but it’s not up to him and him at RW would allow Yeo to put together some absolutely sick lines.

All of that of course assuming Thomas adapts to the NHL smoothly and is pretty quickly an NHL caliber top-6 to top-9 player.

Regardless, these are good “problems” to have. A coach dreams of having the problem of too many good players and trouble finding spots for all of them.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

I’d be fairly surprised to see Bozak moved to the 4th line unless he was playing horribly. He’s been a middle-tier 2C to very good 3C for a while now IMO. They didn’t sign him to $5M/year to play 4th line.

To me, if Thomas is really pressing for more playing time, the more likely option IMO is to either have Thomas move to RW in the top-9 or move Schenn back to RW and go with ROR, Thomas and Bozak as the top 3 Cs. I know Schenn would prefer to play C but it’s not up to him and him at RW would allow Yeo to put together some absolutely sick lines.

All of that of course assuming Thomas adapts to the NHL smoothly and is pretty quickly an NHL caliber top-6 to top-9 player.

Regardless, these are good “problems” to have. A coach dreams of having the problem of too many good players and trouble finding spots for all of them.

In your scenario, which wing goes to the 4th line? Maroon? Steen?

I’m not disagreeing, but when I thought through this, your scenario doesn’t leave a good enough center for as dangerous of a 4th line. It would become a more traditional 4th line then.
Barbashev? Sundqvist? But you’ve put a quality possible 20 goal scoring wing on that line now in Steen, Maroon or Perron.

Really nice problems to have. More likely someone will be injured and all these fantasy lineups will be moot. But unlike last year, the Blues can weather some injuries at forward.

 

[STL fan in MN]

In your scenario, which wing goes to the 4th line? Maroon? Steen?

I’m not disagreeing, but when I thought through this, your scenario doesn’t leave a good enough center for as dangerous of a 4th line. It would become a more traditional 4th line then.
Barbashev? Sundqvist? But you’ve put a quality possible 20 goal scoring wing on that line now in Steen, Maroon or Perron.

Really nice problems to have. More likely someone will be injured and all these fantasy lineups will be moot. But unlike last year, the Blues can weather some injuries at forward.

Which winger goes to the 4th line in that scenario? IDK, whichever one fits the least with the other 8 top-9 guys?

But yeah, in that scenario, then the 4th like would likely be centered by either Barbs or Sundqvist.

The bottom line is that if all are healthy, there 10 top-9 caliber players on the roster, so one of them will get screwed. 11 if Kyrou can show he’s ready...but that’s also why I think he’s destined for SA.

But like you said, injuries are bound to happen so it’s a problem that likely solves itself a lot of the time but agreed that they should be able to weather injuries better this year and not have to rely on just 1 line most nights.

 

[MortiestOfMortys]

Watching Pat Maroon throw out the first pitch at the Cards game, I'm starting to get mad David Freese vibes from him. Not in personality or demeanor, but I can just imagine him being the next "hometown boy" to do something significant here. Like he scores the game 7 OT goal to send us to the Cup.

I can't wait to see this team on the ice together.

 

[Reality Czech]

I

I agree that Perron is not an ideal linemate for Tarasenko, but I also don’t think that is a likely choice either. Also, in hindsight how much was Fabbri helping Lehtera look more effective?

I see Tarasenko with:
Maroon-O’Reilly-Tarasenko
Or
Fabbri-O’Reilly-Tarasenko

Agree with you here. They will probably give Maroon a chance first and why shouldn't they? Fabbri will need to play limited minutes until he feels back to normal, and I just feel that Maroon with O'Reilly and Tarasenko could be a really effective line. Maroon could thrive in that situation and to be honest I am excited to see Tarasenko finally get to play with a legit center and a big guy like Maroon. I wouldn't be surprised if that line stays together, even if Fabbri returns to form. Either way, love the fact we have so many options.

 

[TheChamber91]

Does anyone have any good tips for picking up autographs of current players? Like spots to go at practices or preseason games where you have a chance of snagging one?

 

[JoshFromMO]

I was watching highlights from the WCF run and I forgot how much I miss Elliot. Those Cujo pads were like magic.
Also it was nice seeing Fabbri running around making Brouwer look useful.
Also also, Lehtera was such a frustrating player to watch, holy Moses

 

[Brian39]

I’d be fairly surprised to see Bozak moved to the 4th line unless he was playing horribly. He’s been a middle-tier 2C to very good 3C for a while now IMO. They didn’t sign him to $5M/year to play 4th line.

To me, if Thomas is really pressing for more playing time, the more likely option IMO is to either have Thomas move to RW in the top-9 or move Schenn back to RW and go with ROR, Thomas and Bozak as the top 3 Cs. I know Schenn would prefer to play C but it’s not up to him and him at RW would allow Yeo to put together some absolutely sick lines.

All of that of course assuming Thomas adapts to the NHL smoothly and is pretty quickly an NHL caliber top-6 to top-9 player.

Regardless, these are good “problems” to have. A coach dreams of having the problem of too many good players and trouble finding spots for all of them.

I'm 100% against this as it all but guarantees that he walks as a UFA in 2 years. It also likely costs him 10-15 points of production and who knows how his chemistry with Schwartz would carry over as a winger instead of a center.

Schenn was the Blues' first center to put up 70 points since 2001. He and Turgeon are the only Blues centers to hit that mark since 1994. ROR and Bozak have never hit 70 points. ROR's career high is 64 points in 2014 and Bozak's career high is 55. If there is one person on this roster who should be locked into a center spot, it is Schenn. If we are moving a center to wing, it makes more sense to me to move ROR or Bozak over Schenn. I don't understand the logic behind moving the franchise's first 70 point center to wing in order to accommodate 3 centers who have never had a season as offensively productive and never played a game for the Blues.

Schwartz has never had a season as good as the one he just had with Schenn as his center and that includes the time when the STL line was clicking as the best line in hockey. Schenn has never had as good a year at RW as the one he just had at C. Why mess with that in order to keep a 32 year old 2C/3C tweener at C instead of moved to the wing?

If Thomas lives up to the hype, I'd rather him force ROR to LW, force Bozak to RW or play as a winger in the top 6 himself before I slide Schenn to wing.

 

[HighNote]

My choice would be to put Bozak on the wing if it came to that.

Schwartz - Schenn - Perron
Fabbri - ROR - Tarasenko
Steen - Thomas - Bozak
Maroon - Barbashev - Jaskin

 

[Ranksu]

My choice would be to put Bozak on the wing if it came to that.

Schwartz - Schenn - Perron
Fabbri - ROR - Tarasenko
Steen - Thomas - Bozak
Maroon - Barbashev - Jaskin

So much will be revealed when we see what level Thomas is at faceoff dot. Tho he have really good team players to train with faceoff skills, ROR best of NHL and Bozak who is around 55% at faceoff cirle. Last season Bozak had down year at faceoff, only recorded 53.6%

 

[Robb_K]

So much will be revealed when we see what level Thomas is at faceoff dot. Tho he have really good team players to train with faceoff skills, ROR best of NHL and Bozak who is around 55% at faceoff cirle. Last season Bozak had down year at faceoff, only recorded 53.6%

I'm for playing Thomas at centre, so he can get used to the centre position on The NHL level earlier. Bozak can move to RW. IF Bozak is Thomas' RW, the former could take all the faceoffs, and after the draw, move over to his RW position. Bozak wouldn't have to play centre, to get him into the faceoff circle. Let's see how well Thomas plays in camp and the exhibition season beforedeciding whether he should play 3rd Line centre or 3rd Line RW.

 

[The Note]

My choice would be to put Bozak on the wing if it came to that.

Schwartz - Schenn - Perron
Fabbri - ROR - Tarasenko
Steen - Thomas - Bozak
Maroon - Barbashev - Jaskin

This is what I’d like to see as well. Let Thomas develop at center with Steen as a shooter and defensive help and Bozak as another creative offensive winger. Bozak can take big draws if need be.

 

[STL fan in MN]

I'm 100% against this as it all but guarantees that he walks as a UFA in 2 years. It also likely costs him 10-15 points of production and who knows how his chemistry with Schwartz would carry over as a winger instead of a center.

Schenn was the Blues' first center to put up 70 points since 2001. He and Turgeon are the only Blues centers to hit that mark since 1994. ROR and Bozak have never hit 70 points. ROR's career high is 64 points in 2014 and Bozak's career high is 55. If there is one person on this roster who should be locked into a center spot, it is Schenn. If we are moving a center to wing, it makes more sense to me to move ROR or Bozak over Schenn. I don't understand the logic behind moving the franchise's first 70 point center to wing in order to accommodate 3 centers who have never had a season as offensively productive and never played a game for the Blues.

Schwartz has never had a season as good as the one he just had with Schenn as his center and that includes the time when the STL line was clicking as the best line in hockey. Schenn has never had as good a year at RW as the one he just had at C. Why mess with that in order to keep a 32 year old 2C/3C tweener at C instead of moved to the wing?

If Thomas lives up to the hype, I'd rather him force ROR to LW, force Bozak to RW or play as a winger in the top 6 himself before I slide Schenn to wing.

Fair point about Schenn possibly being unhappy and not wanting to re-sign here if moved to RW but I think a lot of what you’re saying is just assumptions.

Bottom line is that if all 4 Cs showed they absolutely deserved to be in the top-9, I’d try all sorts of combos and then settle on whichever ones were the best for the team as a whole.

But without trying all of the combos, I’d guess that moving Schenn back to RW would be something that’d work well for the team as a whole.

While maybe Schwartz-Schenn don’t have the same chemistry with Schenn at RW instead of C, maybe they do. Worth trying IMO.

And other than last season, Schenn was a good amount better at RW than C for the Flyers. Maybe he’ll be an even better RW than C for the Blues? Maybe, maybe not. Worth trying though IMO.

And I’ll note that Schenn really wasn’t that great at the actual position of C last year. They had good metrics because he and Schwartz held possession so much but his D coverage as a C and faceoff skills aren’t good.

ROR is the best faceoff man and one of the best defensive Cs in the league. He’d be the last I’d move to wing.

The solution may be Bozak or Thomas to RW, but the solution may also be Schenn to RW. Or perhaps even ROR to LW but with him still taking the faceoffs. All options are worth exploring IMO.

 

[Ranksu]

Didn't Schenn played last world championships at LW and Schwartz RW?