Half-Assed GDT: blues at jets - almost escaping canada edition

[Captain Creampuff]

While Parayko had a couple of miscues, he still played a great game for only being in his 6th game and basically playing Shattenkirk's role.

 

[Majorityof1]

I don't have quotes on hand, but I recall a couple reporters making veiled comments about Oshie's attitude right after the trade was made. Almost like they were waiting to vent some pressure, but couldn't release everything. That could be speculation or playing to their audience; but I recall, at the time, it seemed like there was more to it that wasn't being reported. Especially from Rutherford. That isn't much to go on, but I somewhat get why some fans are quick to believe that Oshie's attitude was some kind of a problem. It could be worse than we even imagine, but it seems like most fans who talk about it like it's fact are ones who made up their minds about it a long time ago.

I remember a few of the veiled comments. To me it seemed more like reaching for a reason to justify the trade since it was lopsided in the eyes of many. I don't remember Rutherford saying anything. He would probably know if anyone did. I do remember people on this board trying to turn every little thing into proof of big locker room drama. "OMG Backes didn't tweet about Oshie being traded, they totally hate and aren't speaking to each other #lockerroomcancer."

I think it is a problem with these boards. A lot of people get most of their hockey info/analysis here as there aren't that many good media outlets outside of Canada. We posters aren't held to the same standard as journalists. Some things that are speculation or rumor get repeated over and over. People use those things to support their points and stop referring to it as speculation. Over time, they become fact in the eyes of people. I am merely trying to say this one isn't a fact. And there is just as much evidence that Oshie was thrown under the bus for the teams failures.

Edit: Perfect example above as to what I am saying. Simon in Canada remembers 3 words someone, don't know who, said about not sure who in who knows what context. But it is being applied to the debate about Oshie. It might have nothing to do with him or not be a reliable source. But it is planted in people's consciousness in regards to Oshie. So later if this topic comes up, people can say "Oh yea, Oshie was totally "self-entitled" even if they never saw the original quote, and even if the original quote wasn't in regards to Oshie at all. I am not trying to call you out Simon. I do the same thing. We all do. We don't have the time to track down quotes, so we say what we recall. But it shapes the debate because the next guy recalls what you said. It's like the telephone game in pre-school. Whisper a phrase down the line and it comes out totally different at the end from how it started.

 

[Dbrownss]

JR keeps his mouth shut. He's admitted he knows more then he says...it's how he get the juicy info

 

[Klank Loves You]

Rookies gonna rookie. That's why they are rookies.

 

[KirkOut]

8-10 out of a possible 12 points on a tough injury-filled road trip to start the season. I'd say that's a pretty good success right now. Team is playing well.

 

[yogintheaveragebears]

WARNING: the following is my overall reactions to the start of the season including todays game. As I don't post often it may be a little much.

Glad to see Gomez has still got it. Upshall has been a pleasant surprise for me. Bow looks very good, he's been an animal in the blue paint. Every game he seems to put someone on there rear. Saying that it was weird to see any emotion at all from him today, I welcome it. Jaskin needed to step up and delivered very good game for him. The backs hate is real. Hes playing fine in his role which will probably even be better for him in the long run. Less minutes Less responsibility, in stead of doing everything for this team (scoring, defense, physicality) we now have plenty of guys who can do each respectively. Let him play elite shut down and chip in a few offensively here n there for the next 5 years. Brodziak is on a steal of a contract and is I think the only player who can roof it. Schwarts has been weird, I expected more things for a contract year, and it is the beginning of the year so i'm not to worried and its not like hes played poorly. Just expected more and still am! No doubt he'll deliver

 

[Vincenzo Arelliti]

I remember a few of the veiled comments. To me it seemed more like reaching for a reason to justify the trade since it was lopsided in the eyes of many. I don't remember Rutherford saying anything. He would probably know if anyone did. I do remember people on this board trying to turn every little thing into proof of big locker room drama. "OMG Backes didn't tweet about Oshie being traded, they totally hate and aren't speaking to each other #lockerroomcancer."

I think it is a problem with these boards. A lot of people get most of their hockey info/analysis here as there aren't that many good media outlets outside of Canada. We posters aren't held to the same standard as journalists. Some things that are speculation or rumor get repeated over and over. People use those things to support their points and stop referring to it as speculation. Over time, they become fact in the eyes of people. I am merely trying to say this one isn't a fact. And there is just as much evidence that Oshie was thrown under the bus for the teams failures.

Edit: Perfect example above as to what I am saying. Simon in Canada remembers 3 words someone, don't know who, said about not sure who in who knows what context. But it is being applied to the debate about Oshie. It might have nothing to do with him or not be a reliable source. But it is planted in people's consciousness in regards to Oshie. So later if this topic comes up, people can say "Oh yea, Oshie was totally "self-entitled" even if they never saw the original quote, and even if the original quote wasn't in regards to Oshie at all. I am not trying to call you out Simon. I do the same thing. We all do. We don't have the time to track down quotes, so we say what we recall. But it shapes the debate because the next guy recalls what you said. It's like the telephone game in pre-school. Whisper a phrase down the line and it comes out totally different at the end from how it started.

Outside of today, I don't think I ever said anything about Oshie's locker room presence. I've never said anything to try to prove that Oshie was a bad apple, and I'm not trying to prove that now. I just mentioned that I keep hearing about this unprecedented camaraderie in interviews - something I didn't hear last year. I'm not trying to extrapolate, and that's why I put "Locker room presence" in quotes. It's a phrase that gets thrown around a lot around here, but I might have had the audacity to cite that rhetoric in a message board. I'm not associating the success at the beginning of the season with Oshie's absence in the locker room - I was merely using quoted rhetoric to note that we seem to be doing alright without him on the ice, and I keep hearing about a positive teamwork that was never mentioned in years previous.

What IS noticeable is the lack of Oshie on the ice. No one, other than maybe Lehtera, and I guess if we're reaching, Parayko, has looked like a baby giraffe on ice for the Blues. That's the "locker room presence" I was referring to, jokingly, originally, but I suppose I should have made more clear as to not incite a demand for objective evidence.

As for the "Parayko" and "God" comments - the kid is in his 6th game and played well (after adjusting) to a strong central division team. WPG threw a lot at him, and as a rookie he adjusted and came up big in the third. He's playing Top 4 minutes, and getting PP1 time - it's okay to be excited about a nobody prospect already looking like he could be a #4 dman. He's got all the tools, and the IQ to boot. I think we're all more excited about his CEILING (which is subjective both high and low), and we're being understanding about his rookie mistakes. Perhaps we're being unfair to Berglund by being excited about Parayko, but comparing Parayko to how this board treats Berglund is hardly fair, given that Berglund HAS seriously regressed, is (slightly) overpaid, and was a 1st round pick that looked like a 1C. I've (long) accepted that Berglund's not going to be that, and I'm fine with him being on the team. As for me, I've not complained about him being on the team outside of (self-identified irrationally) wishing that we had Sobotka instead; I've much more often argued that we should stop expecting so much from Berglund, and just let him be the player that he is. I sincerely hope Berglund comes back from surgery a new player and becomes a more offensively potent 3C that can also 2C in a pinch - but I'd be fine if he doesn't, and I don't expect him to.

It's okay. We can be happy about the early season success and teamwork, joke about not seeing a giraffe on ice, and be excited for Parayko's future by giving him Chuck Norris-esque (read "humorous") claims to fame. Unless someone is trying to claim this subjective and joyous rhetoric as evidence for an argument - let it go. I don't think anyone has or is sincerely arguing that our success is because Oshie is gone, or that Oshie is the only one that ever falls down, or that Parayko is already a top pairing defenseman, so let's just take a step back and remember that.

 

[2 Minute Minor]

I really don't see how someone that truly considers themselves a Blues fan could fail to be excited about Parayko. When a 3rd rounder makes the team and forces his way onto the roster, then PP time, then filling in top 4....while scoring goals and shattering glass, it's a feel-good story.

 

[2 Minute Minor]

How can you possibly know what effect Oshie's absence has on the locker room? It 6 games into the regular season. We look good, sure, but we are always a good regular season team. Any positive change can be attributed to philosophical/coaching changes as well. We aren't giving up the Blue line. Our D are allowed to pinch more. And we have gotten the incredible emergence of young D as well. Our tope offensive line is also allowed room to be creative. These all have to do with Hitch, not Oshie. Please give me one measurable, tangible effect of Oshie not being in the locker room that has helped this team.

I agree that speculation has been carried too far. But I think Armstrong put better pieces together this year, and that Tarasenko's larger leadership role matters a lot. Whether it was Oshie's presence itself or not, i do think the trade is responsible for some of what we are seeing. I also personally found Oshie to be unprofessional when he talked about Hitch to the media (contrast with Shattenkirk).

 

[yogintheaveragebears]

my thoughts (I know no one cares) but it was obviously hitch vs players. Hitch won and management was strong to show that by shipping out one A and letting another A walk. Whether either of them was the problem doesn't matter. They pretty much told the team if you don't adapt we have no problem getting rid of you and proved it.

 

[rumrokh]

my thoughts (I know no one cares) but it was obviously hitch vs players. Hitch won and management was strong to show that by shipping out one A and letting another A walk. Whether either of them was the problem doesn't matter. They pretty much told the team if you don't adapt we have no problem getting rid of you and proved it.

Even if I hated Hitch, I'd still think this is the right way for a GM to run things.

 

[2 Minute Minor]

Even if I hated Hitch, I'd still think this is the right way for a GM to run things.

Yes. But I don't think for a second Jackman was a problem, just too expensive and wearing down when young guys had to play at ELC rates.

Hitchcock does not get credit for it much, but the Blues style has changed each year he has been here. He is a lot more versatile than people acknowledge. It's the mid-game adjustments where I'm not convinced.

 

[Celtic Note]

Even if I hated Hitch, I'd still think this is the right way for a GM to run things.

I would agree generally speaking. But I think it was obvious last year that Hitch is not right for the team. I would have moved on from him and retooled in a way that still holds players responsible, I.e. Move Backes and Oshie.

 

[2 Minute Minor]

I would agree generally speaking. But I think it was obvious last year that Hitch is not right for the team. I would have moved on from him and retooled in a way that still holds players responsible, I.e. Move Backes and Oshie.

A one year contract isn't that much different, if they replace him. I am curious what Tarasenko's opinion is.

 

[nicholas89alex]

While Parayko had a couple of miscues, he still played a great game for only being in his 6th game and basically playing Shattenkirk's role.

just curious how often has parayko played 3 games in 4 days in his career? i believe they only play 1 or 2 games a week in college. playing more than you ever have before at a faster pace will probably make you tired and have adverse effects on your game.

 

[Skinnyjimmy08]

just curious how often has parayko played 3 games in 4 days in his career? i believe they only play 1 or 2 games a week in college. playing more than you ever have before at a faster pace will probably make you tired and have adverse effects on your game.

exactly...

the fact he is doing so well in all these games in such a smaller time frame than he is used to is VERY encouraging. I am so excited to see how much better he is by mid season. It's too bad the NHL is filled with a ton of real offensive rookie players this year that are putting up points because I could have seen Parayko as a potential Calder candidate. IMO though, he will easily be the best rookie dman in the league.

Oh and another thing, does anyone have the clip of the poke check on Wheeler I keep hearing about and also the bomb shot he took on Pavalec that hurt him? haha pretty specific requests for clips but I couldn't watch this game and missed it

 

[Dbrownss]

exactly...

the fact he is doing so well in all these games in such a smaller time frame than he is used to is VERY encouraging. I am so excited to see how much better he is by mid season. It's too bad the NHL is filled with a ton of real offensive rookie players this year that are putting up points because I could have seen Parayko as a potential Calder candidate. IMO though, he will easily be the best rookie dman in the league.

Oh and another thing, does anyone have the clip of the poke check on Wheeler I keep hearing about and also the bomb shot he took on Pavalec that hurt him? haha pretty specific requests for clips but I couldn't watch this game and missed it

The poke check was money, he ran wheeler down and reached around him and knocked the puck off his stick.

The slapper can be scene in the highlights.


The meme "if he dies, he dies" will become legendary.

 

[Skinnyjimmy08]

ya that was a bomb of a shot haha... just saw the highlights

 

[Dbrownss]

We really need someone to turn that into a .gif, Parayko taking a slap shot with Pavs hitting the ice then into the "if he dies he dies"

 

[jura]

oh and another thing, does anyone have the clip of the poke check on wheeler i keep hearing about

and also the bomb shot he took on pavalec that hurt him? Haha pretty specific requests for clips but i couldn't watch this game and missed it

[nhl]850838[/nhl]

 

[Dbrownss]

God that Poke check...you need the whole sequence though to fully appreciate it

 

[bleedblue1223]

Let defenders and goalies see that replay and see the seas part like they did for MacInnis.

 

[Skinnyjimmy08]

[nhl]850838[/nhl]

thanks man!

 

[Vincenzo Arelliti]

We really need someone to turn that into a .gif, Parayko taking a slap shot with Pavs hitting the ice then into the "if he dies he dies"

Seconded.

 

[Vladdy the Impaler]

Seconded.

Thirded.