Confirmed with Link: Blues acquire Nikita Soshnikov for 2019 4th round pick

DopeyFish

Mitchy McDangles
Nov 17, 2009
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Long time reader and finally decided to start posting. From reading everyone’s comments, it sounds like he is a more physical Paajarvi. Fast, and good defensively, but lacks the offensive creativity to be a top 6 player.

He's got creativity that he hasn't shown much because of his usage.

He has definite unseen offensive upside. I think he would blossom in an offensive role as I think Babcock kept forcing him to be a grinder which really hurt his offensive game. He's got a laser of a wrist shot which honestly comes off like a slap shot.

I would not be surprised if he racks up some impressive numbers with the right linemates. He has shown some brief flashes that he could be a lot better than we realized but never really had a good opportunity to show it.
 

Reality Czech

Registered User
Apr 17, 2017
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I don't think anyone is upset. I am the most vocal person against it, and I basically am agreeing that it is inconsequential. I don't think Sosh will help, but we didn't lose anything of great value.




That's exactly what Jaskin is (only a few months older than Sosh), and people bag on him constantly. As they do Sundqvist who is a year younger. If the Blues had drafted him, he wouldn't be a shiny new toy and people would be ready to move him for a 4th so we don't lose him to the waiver wire, just like Toronto was. Personally I'd rather have the 4th with the potential to be better than a 4th liner, than a guy whose just a 4th liner. We grabbed a good 4th liner from another team's PTO. They aren't that difficult to find and we have young guys who can fill the role now, plus Musil and others coming up.

I have read many comments from Leafs fans regarding this trade and most of them seem to think he has potential to be more than just a 4th liner, if he can stay healthy. I am willing to bet Soshnikov is a much better player than Musil, especially at this point.

People bag on Jaskin because he's got 6 goals in his last 104 games, 10 in his last 169. He's had plenty of chances. If Soshnikov can be better than Jaskin, it will be a good move. And I doubt he will do any worse. Also, Sundqvist has shown me pretty much nothing this year. Hopefully Soshnikov can push either of those guys out of the lineup.
 

Frenzy31

Registered User
May 21, 2003
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This is one of those deals that makes me wonder if another deal is coming. I don’t know much about him beyond stats and what Leafs fans have said.

But is this a move that we make with the thought process that either Sobie or Berglund are on their way out? We still have a ton of 3rd and 4th line players and Sanford seems to be poised to return.
 

TruBlu

Registered User
Feb 7, 2016
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Wouldn't us get him at off-season for free?
They didn't have a roster spot for him and would have lost him on waivers if they sent him down. It was either lose him to waivers or take a low draft pick. It appears like it is a win/win for both clubs.
 

Zamadoo

Hail to the CHIEF
Apr 4, 2013
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When Leivo was brought up a while back, I mentioned trying to pick up Soshnikov as a throw in. Kind of cool that Army thought he was a good buy-low candidate on his own, especially since I didn't really think Leivo was a great trade candidate in the first place.
My thoughts all along have been that Army will make an unsuspected trade like the Schenn deal, especially after he turned down Fabbri for Hoffman. Soshnikov fits that bill, but definitely seems like a precursor to something bigger (as JR alluded to).
 

TheGroceryStick

Registered User
Jan 19, 2009
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He is Paajarvi - Minus the draft position cloud that has followed both him, yakupov and others who get the 'bust murmurs'

This guy is a construction worker type player and 'yes man' for your coach.
I remember earlier in his stint in Toronto he said, in broken English, "they want me 4th line, I'll hit...they want me to score, I can so that too"

You might not be suprised by his shot because you already have one of the best in the game...but goalies will be.

Unfortunate we couldn't hold off until next year...but there wasn't a spot for Sosh.
 

67Blues

Got it for Bobby
Mar 22, 2013
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Section 111
Anytime an organization can flip a future 4th-7th round pick which has a slight chance of playing in the NHL in 3-4 years (or in this case 4-5 since it is a 2019) in exchange for a young player who has NHL experience you do that. It just makes sense from an organization direction. You may flip that player in a bigger deal, who knows, but you are getting an asset in exchange for a hope.

PickAppeared In NHLPlayed 100+ Games In NHL
Top-5100%96.3%
6-10100%78.1%
Rest of First Round88.6%63.0%
Second Round65.7%31.1%
Third Round50.7%27.9%
Fourth Round36.0%18.7%
Fifth Round29.9%14.2%
Sixth Round30.0%14.3%
Seventh Through Ninth Rounds27.1%11.6%
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
 

byrath

Registered User
Jan 28, 2008
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St. Louis, MO
I suspect Soshnikov will get some looks at 2RW, Steen/Stastny could use a speedy forechecker to help them get possession. Wicked wrister apparently too, so who knows, it could work. Even a young 4th liner is pretty good value for a 4th rounder so good job Mr. Armstrong.
 

Majorityof1

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Mar 6, 2014
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I have read many comments from Leafs fans regarding this trade and most of them seem to think he has potential to be more than just a 4th liner, if he can stay healthy. I am willing to bet Soshnikov is a much better player than Musil, especially at this point.

People bag on Jaskin because he's got 6 goals in his last 104 games, 10 in his last 169. He's had plenty of chances. If Soshnikov can be better than Jaskin, it will be a good move. And I doubt he will do any worse. Also, Sundqvist has shown me pretty much nothing this year. Hopefully Soshnikov can push either of those guys out of the lineup.

You list Jaskin's goals, but conveniently forget that Jaskin has a career PPG higher than Soshnikov. They are the same age. Soshnikov is a career .2 ppg. Jaskin has beaten that 3 out of the last 4 seasons and tied it the other one. Jaskin has gotten a lot of opportunities because he has earned them by playing solid defense and strong possession. Soshnikov can't beat out career .19ppg Matt Martin for a spot on the Leaf's roster, but according to some posters here who have likely never seen him, yea, he's going to fix our 3rd line.

Our teams problem is we have too many 4th liners playing up (and 3rd liners playing up). That's why we don't get points from our bottom 6. Our fourth line actually produces well for a fourth line. Our third line actually produces well for a FOURTH line. Our second line produces well, for a THIRD line. Adding more 4th liners to play on our 3rd line is not an answer to anything even if they are slightly better than the 4th liners we currently have on our 3rd line. We sent Tage Thompson down, a kid who has top 6 upside, so we can acquire another 4th liner. That is why I can't get excited about the trade. Marginal upgrades to our bottom 6 will not fix this team. We need to fill the top 6, and push the 3rd liners out and onto the 3rd, and the 4th liners off the 3rd and down to the 4th. We have far too many guys "who can play up in a pinch" playing up. We are pinched way too damn much. So acquiring another guy who can play up in a pinch is not exciting. I don't know how many more ways there are to say it. Just watch. He'll score a couple killer goals that will get Blues fans excited, but when he continues to produce at a .2 ppg pace, the bloom will be off the rose.

Anytime an organization can flip a future 4th-7th round pick which has a slight chance of playing in the NHL in 3-4 years (or in this case 4-5 since it is a 2019) in exchange for a young player who has NHL experience you do that. It just makes sense from an organization direction. You may flip that player in a bigger deal, who knows, but you are getting an asset in exchange for a hope.

PickAppeared In NHLPlayed 100+ Games In NHL
Top-5100%96.3%
6-10100%78.1%
Rest of First Round88.6%63.0%
Second Round65.7%31.1%
Third Round50.7%27.9%
Fourth Round36.0%18.7%
Fifth Round29.9%14.2%
Sixth Round30.0%14.3%
Seventh Through Ninth Rounds27.1%11.6%
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

That's logic is assuming all NHL players are equal. A 2nd rounder only has a 31.1% chance of playing 100 games. Would you trade our 2nd this year for another guy like Thorburn? He is an NHL player who has 100 games, and its more than likely the second will. Leaving hockey, would you give $1 for a 16.7% chance to get your money back and a small 2% chance to win $1 million? People lay the lottery with worse odds every day. That 4th could bust, or could be just as good as Soshnikov or could turn into a Parayko who would have fallen to the 4th had we not taken him. By giving up the 4th, you are giving up the chance, albeit small, of getting a game-changer and in return getting a bottom-6 player, something we have in spades.
 

Reality Czech

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Apr 17, 2017
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Sheesh, guess I touched a nerve. My main point was that Sosh likely won't be worse than those guys, and may turn out to be better. Neither guy creates much offense, but Soshnikov hasn't had as many opportunities as Jaskin has. If he is equally unproductive after he's played as many games as Jaskin, then we'll know there was little difference between the two. Not really interested in arguing if the .2 PPG guy is better offensively than the .23 career PPG guy. I don't think the Leafs ever put him in a scoring role, but the Blues have tried Jaskin on the 2nd or 3rd line plenty and he still couldn't produce. So don't think it's fair to compare them without taking context into account. The Leafs are deep at forward and didn't have a spot for him. We've had plenty of opportunities for Jaskin to establish himself and he has done little with those opportunities. Totally different situations. I am willing to give the guy a chance, which you don't seem willing to do.

I've said numerous times that the Blues have one first line, a third line and two fourth lines, so I agree with that. And I also agree it would be nice to add more top 6 talent, but we all know what that will cost. Leafs fans seem to think Soshnikov can be more than just a 4th liner if given an opportunity so I am looking forward to seeing what he can do with it. No one is expecting this trade to "fix the team" so not sure what you're getting at. Likewise, I don't think anyone is overreacting that much. It's not an exciting move, it's just a move. And it may be a precursor to trading Sobotka or Berglund, which might nudge us closer to a team that is fixed.
 

BrokenFace

Registered User
Aug 15, 2010
1,569
1,730
STL
Anytime an organization can flip a future 4th-7th round pick which has a slight chance of playing in the NHL in 3-4 years (or in this case 4-5 since it is a 2019) in exchange for a young player who has NHL experience you do that. It just makes sense from an organization direction. You may flip that player in a bigger deal, who knows, but you are getting an asset in exchange for a hope.

PickAppeared In NHLPlayed 100+ Games In NHL
Top-5100%96.3%
6-10100%78.1%
Rest of First Round88.6%63.0%
Second Round65.7%31.1%
Third Round50.7%27.9%
Fourth Round36.0%18.7%
Fifth Round29.9%14.2%
Sixth Round30.0%14.3%
Seventh Through Ninth Rounds27.1%11.6%
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

6th rounders are confirmed better than 5th rounders.

Thanks for posting this. Do you know the date range?
 

carter333167

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Apr 24, 2013
6,958
3,120
From what I've seen of his wrister, it probably will instantly rank in the top 3-4 on the team. Release and velocity are outstanding. Whether he has accuracy and can routinely get in a position to get it off are other questions but that tool alone makes him quite a bit different than a Jaskin or Magnus. I hope he gets a chance with some of our skill players...he might just blossom and become a 15-20 goal guy.
 
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MortiestOfMortys

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Jun 27, 2015
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FWIW, it isn’t that he couldn’t “beat out” Matt Martin, otherwise the same logic would apply to Kapanen until lately too. Babs has his preferences, and sticks to his guns. Playing with Matt Martin likely isn’t going to ya know boost your stats much. But Sosh out-performed him and many other people on that team (17 pts in 811 minutes) with way tougher minutes than most of them (62% dz starts on his career, *88%* in his 3 games this year).

But even irrespective of that, what sets him apart from our other bottom 6ers is his motor and his shot. We need scoring support, he’s got the shot to capitalize on Jaskin’s cycle game. We come out cold and flat all the time right now, his engine will give us a boost.

We hope. And if not, big freakin deal. It’s a 4th rounder, and as much as I advocate for hanging onto as many draft picks as possible, I’d rather take a flyer on this guy who can help us now than have to wait 5 years to even know what we have in the 2019 4th.
 

carter333167

Registered User
Apr 24, 2013
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FWIW, it isn’t that he couldn’t “beat out” Matt Martin, otherwise the same logic would apply to Kapanen until lately too. Babs has his preferences, and sticks to his guns. Playing with Matt Martin likely isn’t going to ya know boost your stats much. But Sosh out-performed him and many other people on that team (17 pts in 811 minutes) with way tougher minutes than most of them (62% dz starts on his career, *88%* in his 3 games this year).

But even irrespective of that, what sets him apart from our other bottom 6ers is his motor and his shot. We need scoring support, he’s got the shot to capitalize on Jaskin’s cycle game. We come out cold and flat all the time right now, his engine will give us a boost.

We hope. And if not, big freakin deal. It’s a 4th rounder, and as much as I advocate for hanging onto as many draft picks as possible, I’d rather take a flyer on this guy who can help us now than have to wait 5 years to even know what we have in the 2019 4th.

Agreed.

We DESPERATELY need other elitish shots in our forward group. At this point, I would say that Tarasenko and Schenn are the only forwards with elite wristers (lethal from 15-25 feet).
 

Majorityof1

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Mar 6, 2014
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Central Florida
Sheesh, guess I touched a nerve. My main point was that Sosh likely won't be worse than those guys, and may turn out to be better. Neither guy creates much offense, but Soshnikov hasn't had as many opportunities as Jaskin has. If he is equally unproductive after he's played as many games as Jaskin, then we'll know there was little difference between the two. Not really interested in arguing if the .2 PPG guy is better offensively than the .23 career PPG guy. I don't think the Leafs ever put him in a scoring role, but the Blues have tried Jaskin on the 2nd or 3rd line plenty and he still couldn't produce. So don't think it's fair to compare them without taking context into account. The Leafs are deep at forward and didn't have a spot for him. We've had plenty of opportunities for Jaskin to establish himself and he has done little with those opportunities. Totally different situations. I am willing to give the guy a chance, which you don't seem willing to do.

I've said numerous times that the Blues have one first line, a third line and two fourth lines, so I agree with that. And I also agree it would be nice to add more top 6 talent, but we all know what that will cost. Leafs fans seem to think Soshnikov can be more than just a 4th liner if given an opportunity so I am looking forward to seeing what he can do with it. No one is expecting this trade to "fix the team" so not sure what you're getting at. Likewise, I don't think anyone is overreacting that much. It's not an exciting move, it's just a move. And it may be a precursor to trading Sobotka or Berglund, which might nudge us closer to a team that is fixed.

A bit of a nerve, in that I like Jaskin as a player and get sick of defending him. He is what he is and at what he costs provides value. Jaskin actually has done better when played on higher lines. He is a decent complimentary piece on a skilled line. His personal best season was with Stasny. He did well with Schenn and Schwartz. They scored 4 goals in 30 minutes of 5v5 time for a ridiculous GF/60 in that short sample size. Schenn, Schwartz, Stastny, and Tarasenko all have a higher GF/60 playing with Jaskin than without him. He doesn't get a ton of stats, but he helps other players succeed.

If you don't want to argue about who is better offensively between a .2 and .23 ppg guy, why did you start the argument by comparing their goal totals? Look, we seem to agree for the most part. If he works out great. Its a cheap gamble. I am willing to give him a chance, not that I have any say either way. It's just a meh trade. I said it was a meh trade and people keep calling me out on it, so I keep responding because I am bored and that's what I do. If its a precursor to another move, great. If I'm wrong a Sosh is a clearly more useful player than we have, great. I'll totally admit I was wrong. But for now, to me, it looks like Armstrong's usual habit of falling back on acquiring cheap depth guys when he can't find a solution for the real problems of the team.
 
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Majorityof1

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FWIW, it isn’t that he couldn’t “beat out” Matt Martin, otherwise the same logic would apply to Kapanen until lately too. Babs has his preferences, and sticks to his guns. Playing with Matt Martin likely isn’t going to ya know boost your stats much. But Sosh out-performed him and many other people on that team (17 pts in 811 minutes) with way tougher minutes than most of them (62% dz starts on his career, *88%* in his 3 games this year).

But even irrespective of that, what sets him apart from our other bottom 6ers is his motor and his shot. We need scoring support, he’s got the shot to capitalize on Jaskin’s cycle game. We come out cold and flat all the time right now, his engine will give us a boost.

We hope. And if not, big freakin deal. It’s a 4th rounder, and as much as I advocate for hanging onto as many draft picks as possible, I’d rather take a flyer on this guy who can help us now than have to wait 5 years to even know what we have in the 2019 4th.

First bold: According to all Leaf's fans, they traded him because they didn't have the roster room for them. If roster space was a problem, they could have sent Martin down. Nobody would take Martin off waivers. They'd actually save cap doing so. They chose to trade Soshnikov instead. So Martin + 4th > Soshnikov to them. As people have pointed out, a 4th isn't much. So why give up the better player for a 4th? To me that means they prefer Martin, which, imo, doesn't speak well of Sosh. Sosh is also different from Kapanen in that Sosh plays a bottom 6 role, Kapanen does not. Kapanen is also 21 and still has upside. Soshnikov is 24 which should be a player's prime.

Second bold: That's my point about the whole deal. I just extend it to Soshnikov's "upside" as well as the cost. So we lose a 4th rounder, big friggin deal. So we get an ever-so slightly better 4th liner, big friggin deal. I'd rather have the 4th and a roster spot to try out our young guys with more upside than put in another plug, even if he has gumption and the world's bets wrist shot that he is unable to leverage enough to have made an impact by 24.
 

Reality Czech

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Apr 17, 2017
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I like Jaskin too, overall. He can be a useful player. Didn't mean for it to come across as a bash Jaskin post. But 6 goals in 104 games is tough to defend for a guy who quite often played on the 3rd line. I don't recall saying I think Soshnikov is better, but he may have the potential to be. And I don't think he'll do any worse in terms of offense, although I'll wait and see how his other skills look. But I didn't bring up the stats to say I think Sosh is better, simply that he likely won't do any worse than what we've seen from our 3rd line this year. And if he brings a more physical element, even better.

As for Armstrong, it's not like he doesn't know the solution. Most teams with 4 prospects of the quality we have would trade at least one of them for a veteran. I understand why most fans don't want to trade these guys right now, but there are absolutely deals to be made. Army could afford to get almost any of the names being thrown around if he wanted to dig into his prospect bank. But seems most of us don't think it's the time to pull the trigger. So if a big move is off the table for now, what is he supposed to do? Don't really see any way he magically finds a solution midseason if all of the top kids are off the table for trades, so we'll just have to be patient.
 

Majorityof1

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Then, we prefer Thorburn over Blais. Who is a more valuable player going forward? Who is probably a better hockey player at this moment?

Was this in reference to me? We didn't trade Blais, so I'm not sure how the comparison fits. Blias and Thorburn have different roles. Blias is more valuable and better at hockey but not a fighter. Armstrong wants a fighter on the NHL roster so we have Thorburn. However, I doubt we'd trade Blias for peanuts to avoid waiving Thorburn. Matt Martin and Soshnikov have the same role. There was no room on the roster for Soshnikov when he came off IR unless they moved someone. They could a) waive Martin. b) trade Soshnikov or 3) lose Soshnikov to waivers. They chose to keep Martin on the team over Soshnikov in exchange for the 4th, which as everyone has stated, is a nothing pick. If they saw that upside in Soshnikov that people are hoping for, they would have waived Martin who has zero upside. If pressed for a contract spot on a subsequent deal, they could toss in Ben Martin who is a 29 year AHLer with no NHL future.
 

Scott Malkinson

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First bold: According to all Leaf's fans, they traded him because they didn't have the roster room for them. If roster space was a problem, they could have sent Martin down. Nobody would take Martin off waivers. They'd actually save cap doing so. They chose to trade Soshnikov instead. So Martin + 4th > Soshnikov to them. As people have pointed out, a 4th isn't much. So why give up the better player for a 4th? To me that means they prefer Martin, which, imo, doesn't speak well of Sosh. Sosh is also different from Kapanen in that Sosh plays a bottom 6 role, Kapanen does not. Kapanen is also 21 and still has upside. Soshnikov is 24 which should be a player's prime.

Second bold: That's my point about the whole deal. I just extend it to Soshnikov's "upside" as well as the cost. So we lose a 4th rounder, big friggin deal. So we get an ever-so slightly better 4th liner, big friggin deal. I'd rather have the 4th and a roster spot to try out our young guys with more upside than put in another plug, even if he has gumption and the world's bets wrist shot that he is unable to leverage enough to have made an impact by 24.

Matt Martin is not bad enough to demote to the AHL. He's also a big off ice leader for Matthews, Marner and the other young players. Babcock will likely play Martin down the stretch and in the playoffs.

It doesn't say anything about Sosh that he didn't beat out Martin, Kapanen or Komarov.
 

bleedblue1223

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Jan 21, 2011
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Was this in reference to me? We didn't trade Blais, so I'm not sure how the comparison fits. Blias and Thorburn have different roles. Blias is more valuable and better at hockey but not a fighter. Armstrong wants a fighter on the NHL roster so we have Thorburn. However, I doubt we'd trade Blias for peanuts to avoid waiving Thorburn. Matt Martin and Soshnikov have the same role. There was no room on the roster for Soshnikov when he came off IR unless they moved someone. They could a) waive Martin. b) trade Soshnikov or 3) lose Soshnikov to waivers. They chose to keep Martin on the team over Soshnikov in exchange for the 4th, which as everyone has stated, is a nothing pick. If they saw that upside in Soshnikov that people are hoping for, they would have waived Martin who has zero upside. If pressed for a contract spot on a subsequent deal, they could toss in Ben Martin who is a 29 year AHLer with no NHL future.

It's disingenuous to say they are the same role. It's disingenuous to say that Toronto saw no upside in him and that's why they gave him up. You simply don't know what they were thinking, none of us do.

Looking at Babcock over his career, it's clear that he'll prefer NHL vets, just like other coaches of his style. That is an obvious reason why Martin was preferred IMO.

They were going to lose Soshnikov to the KHL if they kept him, but wanted to do right by him and give him an opportunity with a NHL club. This trade is very similar to Warsofsky for Sobotka.

I used Thorburn as an example of a player valued more for experience than on-ice ability or long-term potential. In both contexts, we are talking about just this season. Soshnikov was not going to be returning to Toronto anyway, he had a clause with an out to the KHL if he wasn't on the NHL roster.
 
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ezcreepin

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Dec 5, 2016
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A bit of a nerve, in that I like Jaskin as a player and get sick of defending him. He is what he is and at what he costs provides value. Jaskin actually has done better when played on higher lines. He is a decent complimentary piece on a skilled line. His personal best season was with Stasny. He did well with Schenn and Schwartz. They scored 4 goals in 30 minutes of 5v5 time for a ridiculous GF/60 in that short sample size. Schenn, Schwartz, Stastny, and Tarasenko all have a higher GF/60 playing with Jaskin than without him. He doesn't get a ton of stats, but he helps other players succeed.

If you don't want to argue about who is better offensively between a .2 and .23 ppg guy, why did you start the argument by comparing their goal totals? Look, we seem to agree for the most part. If he works out great. Its a cheap gamble. I am willing to give him a chance, not that I have any say either way. It's just a meh trade. I said it was a meh trade and people keep calling me out on it, so I keep responding because I am bored and that's what I do. If its a precursor to another move, great. If I'm wrong a Sosh is a clearly more useful player than we have, great. I'll totally admit I was wrong. But for now, to me, it looks like Armstrong's usual habit of falling back on acquiring cheap depth guys when he can't find a solution for the real problems of the team.
If Jaskin could improve his shot this offseason, then he will be a fantastic complimentary piece. He's not fast by any means, but when he's going, he appears fast and holds on defenders well. Using his body more and trying power moves more with a better shot could help him improve his goal totals, and even if he doesn't power the net more, he gets fed passes quite a bit with his shots being flubs down low or right in the goalies chest. If he can score 25-30 points regularly, then I think we'd all be happy with him.

Edit: I looked at Jaskin's stats over this season.
Over the first 27 games - 4 goals, 11 points
Next 26 games - 1 goal, 2 points
Again, if he would even hit 10 goals, none of us would complain as much as we do.
 
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