Blues 2016 Offseason Thread Part II

[MissouriMook]

I expect there will be some language in the final expansion draft rules regarding pending unrestricted free agents. It seems to me to be fair that if you do not protect a pending UFA you would have to wait until September 1 to re-sign a UFA that was under contract to you as of the expansion draft date but not protected. I can't see them making it so strict that you can't re-sign them or that you have to wait until after the season starts, but they will find a way to make the situation uncomfortable enough for GMs that they discourage these un-written deals.

Unless a situation comes up that benefits the Hawks, at which point all bets are off.

 

[Splatter]

https://www.nhl.com/news/vladimir-tarasenko-world-cup-diary/c-281586906

Tarasenko has a WCH diary at NHL.com

 

[shpongle falls]

https://www.nhl.com/news/vladimir-tarasenko-world-cup-diary/c-281586906

Tarasenko has a WCH diary at NHL.com

Sweet thanks for the link man.

 

[BlueDream]

Regardless if the NHL can stop it or not, Las Vegas should simply avoid drafting any UFAs. There's just not much benefit to doing so.

The UFA courting period begins like a week after the expansion draft. Vegas can talk to free agents then and make their best pitch. Wasting a spot on a guy just to get an extra week to talk to them really won't make a whole lot of difference, and it certainly wouldn't make veteran players more inclined to sign there, especially if they want a shot at the Cup. If you take Steen for example if he hits the market, there's no chance in hell he'd sign with them. He'd go to another contender if it's not the Blues.

The best UFAs likely aren't going there anyways. And when it comes to middle-tier players, Vegas won't be losing out on much by drafting a player under contract instead.

 

[Celtic Note]

Regardless if the NHL can stop it or not, Las Vegas should simply avoid drafting any UFAs. There's just not much benefit to doing so.

The UFA courting period begins like a week after the expansion draft. Vegas can talk to free agents then and make their best pitch. Wasting a spot on a guy just to get an extra week to talk to them really won't make a whole lot of difference, and it certainly wouldn't make veteran players more inclined to sign there, especially if they want a shot at the Cup. If you take Steen for example if he hits the market, there's no chance in hell he'd sign with them. He'd go to another contender if it's not the Blues.

The best UFAs likely aren't going there anyways. And when it comes to middle-tier players, Vegas won't be losing out on much by drafting a player under contract instead.

I think it all depends on their strategy, the team they are picking from and the player they are targeting.

They cannot grab a bunch of UFAs, because they risk loosing too much. But if they are tactical, selecting 1 or two might not be a big deal. If they bring out the check book for a bigger name guy, when the other options for a signed expansion player on the team they are selecting is someone they could easily grab at the end of summer for cheap, then why not take the chance?

 

[Brian39]

Regardless if the NHL can stop it or not, Las Vegas should simply avoid drafting any UFAs. There's just not much benefit to doing so.

The UFA courting period begins like a week after the expansion draft. Vegas can talk to free agents then and make their best pitch. Wasting a spot on a guy just to get an extra week to talk to them really won't make a whole lot of difference, and it certainly wouldn't make veteran players more inclined to sign there, especially if they want a shot at the Cup. If you take Steen for example if he hits the market, there's no chance in hell he'd sign with them. He'd go to another contender if it's not the Blues.

The best UFAs likely aren't going there anyways. And when it comes to middle-tier players, Vegas won't be losing out on much by drafting a player under contract instead.

It has been reported that LV will have a 3 day window before the draft to talk to pending UFAs that are unprotected. During this 3 day window, they will be able to sign the player to a contract. If they sign the player, he would be their pick from that team. So it is unlikely that they will draft many UFAs that they risk losing in a week. They will either have a contract signed with a team's pending UFA or would draft someone else from that team.

I think there is a pretty good chance that LV will heave money at 2-3 pending UFA forwards to get them to sign with LV before the draft. They will have to pay above UFA market price, but would be able to negotiate before 29 other teams. There should be enough cost-controlled younger talent available in the draft that they could afford a few overpayments to top 6 guys.

 

[Chojin]

There would be no way for the league to enforce a prohibition on handshake agreements that allow teams to expose UFA's in the draft, as teams have the right to negotiate with players as long as they hold their rights. Steen could agree to an extension, at which point Army could ask him if he could expose him in the draft. The danger, of course, would be that Steen could get a better offer from Vegas, or another team once he becomes a UFA, but I've never seen anything expressly against this sort of behavior.

From this article, it appears that Vegas will have an extra period of time to talk to exposed UFA's between the protection deadline and the expansion draft:

Based on discussions around the league, there apparently will be a mechanism to help Las Vegas with exposed UFAs. Once the list of unprotected/draft-eligible players is compiled, Las Vegas would have a two-day window to talk with the pending UFAs in that group and gauge their interest in Sin City before the actual draft. In essence, they would have a 48-hour edge on the entire exposed UFA market. That might give pause to any team faced with a decision to protect a free agent, particularly a core player (think Victor Hedman in Tampa Bay or Karl Alzner in Washington). From the perspective of the new team, if they are certain those UFAs won’t (or would) sign in Las Vegas, it will help better guide their selections.

So if the Blues expose Steen, Vegas could talk to him and see if he has any interest in signing in Vegas. If not, they could just pass on him, and the Blues would be free to sign him after the expansion draft. I can *guarantee* you that, if teams are sure their UFA's don't want to play in Vegas, they'll be doing something like this.

 

[Brian39]

There would be no way for the league to enforce a prohibition on handshake agreements that allow teams to expose UFA's in the draft, as teams have the right to negotiate with players as long as they hold their rights. Steen could agree to an extension, at which point Army could ask him if he could expose him in the draft. The danger, of course, would be that Steen could get a better offer from Vegas, or another team once he becomes a UFA, but I've never seen anything expressly against this sort of behavior.

From this article, it appears that Vegas will have an extra period of time to talk to exposed UFA's between the protection deadline and the expansion draft:



So if the Blues expose Steen, Vegas could talk to him and see if he has any interest in signing in Vegas. If not, they could just pass on him, and the Blues would be free to sign him after the expansion draft. I can *guarantee* you that, if teams are sure their UFA's don't want to play in Vegas, they'll be doing something like this.

There is a very, very easy way for the NHL to combat this: Sign your UFAs by June 17 or you can't re-sign them until August 1st.

Or, they could explicitly tell teams (in writing) that any 'handshake' agreement will be considered tampering by the league and the penalty will be the forfeiture of an additional player/picks to the Las Vegas franchise. They can warn teams that they will aggressively investigate any UFA signing made after the expansion draft for this type of tampering/collusion/loophole and will issue severe punishment if there is any evidence found.

The NHL can enforce decisions based on things that violate 'the spirit of the CBA' and if they want to prevent this type of loophole, there are a number of memos/rules that can be created ahead of the draft to stop it. Given how badly the NHL wants LV to be competitive out of the gate, I'd guess the NHL will work hard to close such a loophole. The expansion draft isn't covered by the CBA, so the NHL is essentially making up rules on the fly. So long as they don't void or alter existing player contracts, they have extremely wide latitude to create whatever rules they want.

 

[Chojin]

There is a very, very easy way for the NHL to combat this: Sign your UFAs by June 17 or you can't re-sign them until August 1st.

Or, they could explicitly tell teams (in writing) that any 'handshake' agreement will be considered tampering by the league and the penalty will be the forfeiture of an additional player/picks to the Las Vegas franchise. They can warn teams that they will aggressively investigate any UFA signing made after the expansion draft for this type of tampering/collusion/loophole and will issue severe punishment if there is any evidence found.

The NHL can enforce decisions based on things that violate 'the spirit of the CBA' and if they want to prevent this type of loophole, there are a number of memos/rules that can be created ahead of the draft to stop it. Given how badly the NHL wants LV to be competitive out of the gate, I'd guess the NHL will work hard to close such a loophole. The expansion draft isn't covered by the CBA, so the NHL is essentially making up rules on the fly. So long as they don't void or alter existing player contracts, they have extremely wide latitude to create whatever rules they want.

I agree that the first one would prevent this situation, but so far they haven't announced anything like that. The second one probably wouldn't work either, though. Army could negotiate with Steen before the deadline as usual, and if he remains unsigned as the deadline approaches, he could simply ask Steen if he still intends to re-sign with the Blues. If he says yes, he could protect someone else in the hope that Steen stays true to his word. There's no possible way that could be construed as tampering and it doesn't even violate the spirit of the process, but it does get you 99% of the way to the "handshake agreement".

Really, the only thing I can think of that would violate the spirit of the process would be if a team left a UFA unprotected after instructing him to tell Vegas he'd be interested in signing with them even though he really isn't, because they intended to defraud Vegas of a pick. But I really don't see anything like that happening.

 

[Splatter]

https://www.nhl.com/news/vladimir-tarasenko-world-cup-diary/c-281586906

Tarasenko has a WCH diary at NHL.com

http://blues.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=892397

Petro is also keeping an ongoing blog for it.

 

[Brian39]

I agree that the first one would prevent this situation, but so far they haven't announced anything like that. The second one probably wouldn't work either, though. Army could negotiate with Steen before the deadline as usual, and if he remains unsigned as the deadline approaches, he could simply ask Steen if he still intends to re-sign with the Blues. If he says yes, he could protect someone else in the hope that Steen stays true to his word. There's no possible way that could be construed as tampering and it doesn't even violate the spirit of the process, but it does get you 99% of the way to the "handshake agreement".

Really, the only thing I can think of that would violate the spirit of the process would be if a team left a UFA unprotected after instructing him to tell Vegas he'd be interested in signing with them even though he really isn't, because they intended to defraud Vegas of a pick. But I really don't see anything like that happening.

I disagree. Because the NHL is essentially making up the rules on the fly, they can define 'tampering' in relation to the expansion draft however they want. If they tell teams that 'an intention' to sign a UFA after the draft is tampering, then it is tampering. The NHL has wide authority to define violations however they want. Now, enforcement may be difficult, but if the threatened punishment is 'Vegas gets to take any player on your roster if you are caught', teams will think long and hard about doing this.

Imagine if Vegas could take Tarasenko if the NHL found evidence of a handshake agreement. Even if we were 99% sure we wouldn't get caught, it would be a bad idea to take that risk just to avoid protecting Steener. Even if we protected Steen and Bergie, we are still talking about only losing one of Perron/Rattie/Jaskin/Brodziak/Lehtera. Protecting 2 of those guys instead of just 1 isn't worth the risk of losing a major asset, even if the odds of that happening are incredibly slim.

On a side note, I wish the NHL would release a more complete set of rules. It is extremely frustrating that the only official release is an incredibly incomplete article on NHL.com.

 

[BlueDream]

Blues bringing in a ton of PTOs. Chris Porter is back, along with Eric Nystrom.

One of these guys (including Galiardi) will probably make the team in a depth spot. Paajarvi will be in the AHL.

 

[Bobby Orrtuzzo]

Don't forget the legend Yan Stastny!

 

[Splatter]

 

[542365]

Can we bring back the Predict the Score game we played on here a couple years ago? We had to guess the first goal scorer, the final score, and the three stars of the game before each game and you got points for correct answers. I always thought it was pretty fun. Can't say I'm really volunteering to run the game, but I would split it with someone else? I do away games and they do home games?

 

[Splatter]

 

[EastonBlues22]

Can we bring back the Predict the Score game we played on here a couple years ago? We had to guess the first goal scorer, the final score, and the three stars of the game before each game and you got points for correct answers. I always thought it was pretty fun. Can't say I'm really volunteering to run the game, but I would split it with someone else? I do away games and they do home games?

That might be fun for the forum if someone takes up the mantle.

 

[izzy]

Hopefully not looking at anything too crazy

 

[Ranksu]

 

[542365]

Can we bring back the Predict the Score game we played on here a couple years ago? We had to guess the first goal scorer, the final score, and the three stars of the game before each game and you got points for correct answers. I always thought it was pretty fun. Can't say I'm really volunteering to run the game, but I would split it with someone else? I do away games and they do home games?

Anyone that would split this with me?

 

[SirPaste]

It was fun to play but I don't have time these days to help run it, otherwise I would help

 

[2 Minute Minor]

Anyone that would split this with me?

I'm not volunteering to help, sorry.

But I do think it would be fun to do something like a running points contest.

Before each game, pick 1 forward and 1 defender. Points for goals only, 2 points for GWG (or shoot-out winner).

But that's just a cheap seat comment from someone not even willing to help out.

 

[Splatter]

Vegas odds for this next season's champions:

Pittsburgh Penguins 9/1

Chicago Blackhawks 9/1

Tampa Bay Lighting 10/1

Washington Capitals 10/1

Dallas Stars 12/1

St. Louis Blues 14/1

San Jose Sharks 14/1

Anaheim Ducks 16/1

Florida Panthers 16/1

Los Angeles Kings 16/1

Nashville Predators 16/1

Boston Bruins 25/1

Detroit Red Wings 25/1

Minnesota Wild 25/1

Montreal Canadiens 25/1

New York Islanders 25/1

New York Rangers 25/1

Edmonton Oilers 33/1

Philadelphia Flyers 33/1

Buffalo Sabres 50/1

Calgary Flames 50/1

Colorado Avalanche 50/1

New Jersey Devils 50/1

Ottawa Senators 50/1

Toronto Maple Leafs 50/1

Winnipeg Jets 50/1

Arizona Coyotes 66/1

Carolina Hurricanes 66/1

Columbus Blue Jackets 66/1

Vancouver Canucks 66/1

 

[KirkOut]

Nashville at 16:1 looks like a decent option

 

[Ranksu]

Blues are wild card team. Top6 team, give me a break. Are they drunk already?