OT: Blue Jays Thread (II)

[McGoMcD]

The Dickey trade was terrible at the time and still is. For all AA did I never liked him after that trade. He wanted to get a big name. The biggest reason it was bad is simply every one knew Dickey had a fluky year and would not be nearly as good at Skydome.

That trade will haunt the jays for a while. I don't even mind the Price deal, at that point you have to take a shot at winning. You got a ace, the Dickey trade was just lose lose all the way around. The jays were not making a run when they got him, and they didn't get an ace.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

The Dickey trade was terrible at the time and still is. For all AA did I never liked him after that trade. He wanted to get a big name. The biggest reason it was bad is simply every one knew Dickey had a fluky year and would not be nearly as good at Skydome.

That trade will haunt the jays for a while. I don't even mind the Price deal, at that point you have to take a shot at winning. You got a ace, the Dickey trade was just lose lose all the way around. The jays were not making a run when they got him, and they didn't get an ace.

I think the deal where he got Tulo for (more or less) Reyes makes up for the Dickey trade.

 

[McGoMcD]

I think the deal where he got Tulo for (more or less) Reyes makes up for the Dickey trade.

Ya, that was a good deal. Though I would like to see Tulo start to hit.

He made some good deals I agree, still, Dickey was brutal.

 

[SDig14]

I think the deal where he got Tulo for (more or less) Reyes makes up for the Dickey trade.

Jury is still out on Jeff Hoffman though, who was more the center piece than Reyes.

At this point he will likely be in the majors at some point this year, so we will see how he does.

 

[SDig14]

Ya, that was a good deal. Though I would like to see Tulo start to hit.

He made some good deals I agree, still, Dickey was brutal.

It's all a matter of perspective.

In hindsight, the trade is not good.

And if you expected Dickey to come in and win another CY Young and have a sub-3 ERA and win close to 20 games, then you set yourself up for disappointment before he event got here.

If you expected to get a solid middle of the rotation guy that can throw 200 innings with an ERA under 4 then you's have got exactly what you expected.

 

[McGoMcD]

It's all a matter of perspective.

In hindsight, the trade is not good.

And if you expected Dickey to come in and win another CY Young and have a sub-3 ERA and win close to 20 games, then you set yourself up for disappointment before he event got here.

If you expected to get a solid middle of the rotation guy that can throw 200 innings with an ERA under 4 then you's have got exactly what you expected.

First I thought the deal was terrible at the time. So it isn't just in hindsight. I agree that is what we should have expected from Dickey, which is exactly why it is insaine to trade two top prospects for him. Syndergaard and D Arnoud were considered top 20 ish prospects when the trade happened. To give up that you want a Ace, not a middle of the rotation guy. Thats the point.

 

[shoop]

First I thought the deal was terrible at the time. So it isn't just in hindsight. I agree that is what we should have expected from Dickey, which is exactly why it is insaine to trade two top prospects for him. Syndergaard and D Arnoud were considered top 20 ish prospects when the trade happened. To give up that you want a Ace, not a middle of the rotation guy. Thats the point.

In normal circumstances agreed. AA's insistence on Dickey signing an extension drove the price up.

 

[rboomercat90]

Hindsight is always 20-20 but perhaps the Jays should have kept Revere.

He had an OBP of .354 last year and we know he's an on-base machine. I don't foresee Saunders doing any better than Pillar in that lead-off spot.

Nope.

I'd trade Revere for Storen all day long. All he could do was hit singles. No other offense to his game. That can easily be replaced. Storen gives you reliable depth late in ball games which is something the Jays desperately needed. They win that trade big time.

 

[rboomercat90]

Basically, the think with Dickey is that when, as you say, the Knuckleball is dancing, he looks like a beast, when it's a little flatter and hittable, you hope he gets through 4 to 6 innings without major problems.

I cringe just at the thought of him pitching now. Even when he isn't getting hammered and his knuckleball is dancing, he's having trouble finishing guys off because Thole can't catch the ball. A couple starts back, he struck out two batters in a row and the ball ended up going to the backstop. Thole managed to throw one guy out but the second guy beat the throw to first and eventually ended up scoring. It's got to be demoralizing to the team watching him pitch knowing how tough it is getting outs.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

I cringe just at the thought of him pitching now. Even when he isn't getting hammered and his knuckleball is dancing, he's having trouble finishing guys off because Thole can't catch the ball. A couple starts back, he struck out two batters in a row and the ball ended up going to the backstop. Thole managed to throw one guy out but the second guy beat the throw to first and eventually ended up scoring. It's got to be demoralizing to the team watching him pitch knowing how tough it is getting outs.

This isn't Dickey's fault, Thole isn't making MLB money to do anything else, he needs to pick it up.

 

[Beerfish]

Dickey gives you something that very team needs, lots of innings. He got off to a slow start last year but he was as just about as good as any pitcher on the jays during the playoff run.

He is a number three starter if that right now but hes a guy who you can trot out every 4th or 5th day whose arm will probably not get sore and he'll normally give you innings.

 

[rboomercat90]

First I thought the deal was terrible at the time. So it isn't just in hindsight. I agree that is what we should have expected from Dickey, which is exactly why it is insaine to trade two top prospects for him. Syndergaard and D Arnoud were considered top 20 ish prospects when the trade happened. To give up that you want a Ace, not a middle of the rotation guy. Thats the point.

I'm not thrilled with the Dickey deal and it's not even about losing Syndegaard and D'Arnoud anymore. I just don't see how he can win anymore and he's going to be pitching every five games. For what he's making, they aren't going to bury him. Unless he gets hurt it's likely a dead spot in the rotation. I'm worried this is more than just "an April thing" with him now as he is getting older. He wasn't dependable at all late in the year and in the postseason. I do hope and concede I could be wrong about him.

Anyway, to me the worst deal of that summer was by far the Johnson acquisition from Miami. The guy was horrible from the beginning, at least the Jays have gotten lots of service out of Dickey. Would have rather kept Alvarez too.

 

[MPStoEberletoHall*]

I'm not thrilled with the Dickey deal and it's not even about losing Syndegaard and D'Arnoud anymore. I just don't see how he can win anymore and he's going to be pitching every five games. For what he's making, they aren't going to bury him. Unless he gets hurt it's likely a dead spot in the rotation. I'm worried this is more than just "an April thing" with him now as he is getting older. He wasn't dependable at all late in the year and in the postseason. I do hope and concede I could be wrong about him.

Anyway, to me the worst deal of that summer was by far the Johnson acquisition from Miami. The guy was horrible from the beginning, at least the Jays have gotten lots of service out of Dickey. Would have rather kept Alvarez too.

Alvarez isn't very good..

 

[PBandJ]

I cringe just at the thought of him pitching now. Even when he isn't getting hammered and his knuckleball is dancing, he's having trouble finishing guys off because Thole can't catch the ball. A couple starts back, he struck out two batters in a row and the ball ended up going to the backstop. Thole managed to throw one guy out but the second guy beat the throw to first and eventually ended up scoring. It's got to be demoralizing to the team watching him pitch knowing how tough it is getting outs.

That sounds like Thole's problem.

 

[rboomercat90]

That sounds like Thole's problem.

It's not as simple as that.

Martin had lots of problems catching him too and he's one of the best in baseball. He was also getting hurt catching him. It's the nature of the pitch itself. It either doesn't fool anybody and it gets hammered or it fools everybody including the catcher. Balls don't come off the bat normally either meaning your defence is frequently out of position when the ball is hit.

 

[rboomercat90]

Alvarez isn't very good..

Much better than Johnson though.

Point was those trades that winter that had everybody in baseball thinking the Jays were contenders were busts. The Dickey trade was the only one that wasn't a disaster.

 

[MPStoEberletoHall*]

Let's be serious, RA will be s*** tomorrow.

What did I say?

 

[McGoMcD]

What did I say?

sigh, he should just retire.

 

[shoop]

sigh, he should just retire.

Maybe you are right. Gave up three in the bottom of the first.

 

[MPStoEberletoHall*]

sigh, he should just retire.

I'd be perfectly okay with this.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

I don't want to tell Josh Thole his business, but if he can't do a proper job behind the plate, he needs to not be on a Major League Roster.

 

[MPStoEberletoHall*]

I don't want to tell Josh Thole his business, but if he can't do a proper job behind the plate, he needs to not be on a Major League Roster.

He's only on the roster because of Dickey. Another reason why I don't like RA

 

[Muscles Glasses]

He's only on the roster because of Dickey. Another reason why I don't like RA

I agree. If RA was having a Cy Young season, then it would be fine I suppose if he has a personal catcher, but right now a #5 pitcher has a minor league at best catcher. It is a waste of 2 roster spots, and an obvious weak spot for the Jays every five days.

 

[I am the Liquor]

What did I say?

Way to go out on a limb.

 

[McDNicks17]

If you're only on an MLB roster to catch a knuckleball and you can't even catch said knuckleball, there's a problem.