OT: Blue Jays / MLB Thread 2022

[Cloned]

…that’s underwhelming…

Time to head over to the Leafs forum Jays thread to see. They’re usually pretty good with their analysis.

 

[MuzzaFuzza]

…that’s underwhelming…

Yeah I was thinking they might be able to get a serviceable starter out of him. Swanson was elite last year though, struckout over 30% of hitters while waking only 5%. His baseball savant page is amazing. I also don’t think Teo had as much value as people thought. Corner OF, below average defensively and one season from feee agency making $14 million this season. So we’ll have to see what they do with that money, signing someone like Nimmo would go a long way for this team.

Interesting tidbit: the lower level prospect they got was born in Slovakia and played baseball at the Vauxhall academy in southern Alberta.

 

[Beerfish]

I liked Hernandez and felt he got a lot of big and timley hits over the last few years. Outfielders that can hit are one of the more easily replacement elements though I think. He did have value though so this reliever they got had better be the goods.

 

[OfCorsiDid]

Time to head over to the Leafs forum Jays thread to see. They’re usually pretty good with their analysis.

Yeah I was thinking they might be able to get a serviceable starter out of him. Swanson was elite last year though, struckout over 30% of hitters while waking only 5%. His baseball savant page is amazing. I also don’t think Teo had as much value as people thought. Corner OF, below average defensively and one season from feee agency making $14 million this season. So we’ll have to see what they do with that money, signing someone like Nimmo would go a long way for this team.

Interesting tidbit: the lower level prospect they got was born in Slovakia and played baseball at the Vauxhall academy in southern Alberta.

@Cloned I ain’t ever going to the leaves forum under any circumstance.

Now that’s out of the way. My biggest issue is that we weren’t able to get someone with a track record of being an elite reliever. Swanson was tremendous last year but that’s it really. He’s had one good year. These are his stats via Baseball Savant for 2019, 2020, 2021 and 2022. The grey row stats are his career averages.

And the lack of fastball velo is concerning me too. If they’re able to pick up Nimmo then the trade is ok, but the bullpen still needs substantial work.

 

[GOilers88]

Don't mind this trade. It sounds like they're hot after Nimmo too, which would make it even easier to get behind.

Their core simply hasn't worked so I don't mind seeing them change it. Not a big Gurriel fan either, would like to see him flipped but it doesn't sound like they will.

 

[MuzzaFuzza]

@Cloned I ain’t ever going to the leaves forum under any circumstance.

Now that’s out of the way. My biggest issue is that we weren’t able to get someone with a track record of being an elite reliever. Swanson was tremendous last year but that’s it really. He’s had one good year. These are his stats via Baseball Savant for 2019, 2020, 2021 and 2022. The grey row stats are his career averages.

View attachment 609619

And the lack of fastball velo is concerning me too. If they’re able to pick up Nimmo then the trade is ok, but the bullpen still needs substantial work.

I agree that he is no slam dunk to repeat last season, but i'm not sure you could get a reliever with a long track record of being elite AND with term left on his contract for Hernandez alone. Also agreed that what they do with the extra ~12 million bucks could sway the deal.

Dugout won't be the same without Teoscar in it though, thats for sure

 

[GOilers88]

I agree that he is no slam dunk to repeat last season, but i'm not sure you could get a reliever with a long track record of being elite AND with term left on his contract for Hernandez alone. Also agreed that what they do with the extra ~12 million bucks could sway the deal.

Dugout won't be the same without Teoscar in it though, thats for sure

I could just be talking out of my ass, but I'd like to see a far more serious dugout this season.

 

[rboomercat90]

I agree that he is no slam dunk to repeat last season, but i'm not sure you could get a reliever with a long track record of being elite AND with term left on his contract for Hernandez alone. Also agreed that what they do with the extra ~12 million bucks could sway the deal.

Dugout won't be the same without Teoscar in it though, thats for sure

I think doing something about amateur hour in the dug out had a lot to do with this trade. Wouldn’t surprise me to see one of Espinal or Gurriel moved too.

 

[Stoneman89]

Update- signed a 2 year deal with the Yankees for 40 mill total.

 

[Beerfish]

So everyone and their dog are making big signings, the guy tsn said 'The jays are targetiing!' signed with another team within a day.

Looks like the Jays will be shopping for scraps, some pitcher that was 5-12 last year that they will put forth as a viable starter. Or some guy that hits .220 as an ouflielder but will 'good defensively'

 

[GOilers88]

Supremely disappointing at this point. They needed to make a big move.

 

[joestevens29]

So everyone and their dog are making big signings, the guy tsn said 'The jays are targetiing!' signed with another team within a day.

Looks like the Jays will be shopping for scraps, some pitcher that was 5-12 last year that they will put forth as a viable starter. Or some guy that hits .220 as an ouflielder but will 'good defensively'

Toronto media for you. Sure the Jays had/have targets, but those targets don't exactly ever seem to interested.

The media will take something they hear as a target and make it as if it's a damn near lock.

Same thing happens with Leafs and Raptors.

 

[Stoneman89]

The Jays biggest cheerleader for them and all other GTA sports teams for that matter, Hazel Mae, must be supremely disappointed.

Yankees and Judge agree to massive 9 year, 360 million dollar deal. This has all the markings of a disaster in about year 4.

In other news, the Yankees signed Tommy Kahnle, who was pretty good. Four years ago.

 

[Cloned]

The Jays biggest cheerleader for them and all other GTA sports teams for that matter, Hazel Mae, must be supremely disappointed.

Yankees and Judge agree to massive 9 year, 360 million dollar deal. This has all the markings of a disaster in about year 4.

In other news, the Yankees signed Tommy Kahnle, who was pretty good. Four years ago.

At least you guys are making moves.

Atkins doing his best Ken Holland impression so far.

 

[rboomercat90]

The Jays biggest cheerleader for them and all other GTA sports teams for that matter, Hazel Mae, must be supremely disappointed.

Yankees and Judge agree to massive 9 year, 360 million dollar deal. This has all the markings of a disaster in about year 4.

In other news, the Yankees signed Tommy Kahnle, who was pretty good. Four years ago.

What annoyed you more? Judge resigning for 9 years or Cashman resigning for 4?

 

[BlackDogg]

This isn't baseball season. Wrong thread

 

[Stoneman89]

What annoyed you more? Judge resigning for 9 years or Cashman resigning for 4?

I wish Cashman would resign. As in, quit.

At least you guys are making moves.

Atkins doing his best Ken Holland impression so far.

Making moves for the sake of making moves is not necessarily good. That contract will be nice for the first 3-4 years. It's going to be nasty after that.

 

[Cloned]

I wish Cashman would resign. As in, quit.


Making moves for the sake of making moves is not necessarily good. That contract will be nice for the first 3-4 years. It's going to be nasty after that.

Not a lot of great options for you guys there though. If he signed elsewhere that wouldn’t have necessarily been better.

 

[Stoneman89]

Not a lot of great options for you guys there though. If he signed elsewhere that wouldn’t have necessarily been better.

Unfortunately, lots of holes elsewhere. A washed up dud at 3rd base, a utility player at short, left field is up for grabs, a band-aid at DH, and lack of depth in pitching. Not to mention, a manger that falls short in deployment and in game decisions.

 

[Cloned]

Unfortunately, lots of holes elsewhere. A washed up dud at 3rd base, a utility player at short, left field is up for grabs, a band-aid at DH, and lack of depth in pitching. Not to mention, a manger that falls short in deployment and in game decisions.

Steinbrenner probably wouldn’t go for a retool. He probably gave Cashman a directive to sign Judge no matter what it took.

Nobody is beating the Astros though. That lineup is just postseason clutch. Yordan might be the clutchiest hitter today. Pretty sure you could combine the Jays and Yankees rosters and it still wouldn’t be enough. I guess you can hope for some regression but most of their players are right in their prime.

 

[Stoneman89]

Steinbrenner probably wouldn’t go for a retool. He probably gave Cashman a directive to sign Judge no matter what it took.

Nobody is beating the Astros though. That lineup is just postseason clutch. Yordan might be the clutchiest hitter today. Pretty sure you could combine the Jays and Yankees rosters and it still wouldn’t be enough. I guess you can hope for some regression but most of their players are right in their prime.

Agreed on both counts.

 

[brentashton]

I wish Cashman would resign. As in, quit.


Making moves for the sake of making moves is not necessarily good. That contract will be nice for the first 3-4 years. It's going to be nasty after that.

Cashman and Boone can both exit, stage left.

 

[OfCorsiDid]

The lack of any signings of an outfielder or a pitcher makes the Hernandez trade all the more baffling.

Guess Atkins was wayyyyy too confident thinking he could sway a FA. Now he's absolutely backed into a corner which is worse than initially imagined since the Cardinals scooped up Contreras yesterday taking them out of potential trade partners.

It's almost guaranteed the Jays will either have to overpay one of the remaining free agents or overpay in a trade.

 

[brentashton]

The lack of any signings of an outfielder or a pitcher makes the Hernandez trade all the more baffling.

Guess Atkins was wayyyyy too confident thinking he could sway a FA. Now he's absolutely backed into a corner which is worse than initially imagined since the Cardinals scooped up Contreras yesterday taking them out of potential trade partners.

It's almost guaranteed the Jays will either have to overpay one of the remaining free agents or overpay in a trade.

I don’t follow the Jays to close, but what’s the story on Atkins? He seems to be absolutely terrible at his job but somehow Shapiro keeps him around? I don’t understand the dynamic.

 

[OfCorsiDid]

I don’t follow the Jays to close, but what’s the story on Atkins? He seems to be absolutely terrible at his job but somehow Shapiro keeps him around? I don’t understand the dynamic.

I wouldn't really say that Atkins is terrible. He did assemble this core through shrewd drafting, trading and use of international signing money. The drag on him of late might be the fact he's a good builder but can't find the right pieces to finish the puzzle.

He's been incapable of building a bullpen, finding reasonable platoon players or rounding out the rotation. Since 2020 the needs of the Blue Jays have been the same:

- High velocity relievers that can eat innings
- A 4th and 5th starter
- A platoon infielder with a good bat
- A platoon outfielder with a good bat

He needs to figure out the special sauce this year though because the upcoming extensions for Bichette and Guerrero Jr. are going to be MASSIVE.

The dynamic between Shapiro and Atkins kind of seems like the divide between the Business side of the Blue Jays and the actual on field product. Shapiro has been overseeing the expansion of marketing, promotions, etc as well as the renovation of the Rogers Centre. I also think he's the guy conveying Atkins's payroll needs to the Rogers Board for approval. After all, the Blue Jays are owned by a corporation so every payroll decision probably requires a business case, board meetings, etc. Atkins, however, is completely invested in putting together the on-field product. I think it was established that these jobs can't be done by one guy.