Proposal: Blockbuster: VAN + PHILLY

[Starat327]

So we just got trolled, right? Like both fanbases?

I believe so.

 

[Canadian Canuck]

Does Oliver Wahlstrom project to be as good or better than Pettersson?

I don’t know you tell me. My point is, why would you trade a young 23 year old player for a player not much younger than him with the hope he’s as good as him some day. It’s an absolute ridiculous notion.

 

[1865]

Weird how the consensus now is how Patrick sucks. I don’t really understand, he’s been pretty great.

Horvat is four years older, of course he’s better. Patrick hasn’t even played 100 games yet.

 

[1865]

I don’t know you tell me. My point is, why would you trade a young 23 year old player for a player not much younger than him with the hope he’s as good as him some day. It’s an absolute ridiculous notion.

The idea (that neither team is entertaining) is that Patrick will be better. It’s possible he is. Possible he isn’t.

 

[Neutrinos]

I don’t know you tell me. My point is, why would you trade a young 23 year old player for a player not much younger than him with the hope he’s as good as him some day. It’s an absolute ridiculous notion.

Nah, that's okay. You don't seem particularly open to hearing ideas which differ from your own

 

[Rowlet]

Weird how the consensus now is how Patrick sucks. I don’t really understand, he’s been pretty great.

Horvat is four years older, of course he’s better. Patrick hasn’t even played 100 games yet.

I think some people don't see his ceiling as high as Hischier, they just aren't good at articulating that.

In addition, it's not something that would be worth drastically changing the makeup of the Canucks locker room for.

 

[PitchNHL]

Hes 23 ffs, in what world is that dinosaur age??

he was being sarcastic are you seriously that brain dead

 

[Starat327]

I think some people don't see his ceiling as high as Hischier, they just aren't good at articulating that.

In addition, it's not something that would be worth drastically changing the makeup of the Canucks locker room for.

The funny part about that is when Patrick finally started getting healthyI - Ithink it was from Jan 1 on - he maintained the same p/g pace as Hischier - only Patrick didn't have a Hart winner on his wing. Smaller sample size obviously but, I don't think their ceilings are terribly different .

 

[Neutrinos]

I think some people don't see his ceiling as high as Hischier, they just aren't good at articulating that.

In addition, it's not something that would be worth drastically changing the makeup of the Canucks locker room for.

That remains to be seen

 

[Tripod]

The funny part about that is when Patrick finally started getting healthyI - Ithink it was from Jan 1 on - he maintained the same p/g pace as Hischier - only Patrick didn't have a Hart winner on his wing. Smaller sample size obviously but, I don't think their ceilings are terribly different .

To be exact, it was from Jan 31 onward.

Patrick had 21 points in the last 33 games to end the year....a 52 point pace. It gave insight that he could play at that pace over a long period of time. He did have a poor pre-season and start to the season which I was disappointed with, but he has been playing much better lately and has 6 points in 10 games. Not bad considering his poor start. 6 points his last 6 games.

But if I am the Canucks, not a chance I trade Horvat.

 

[Rowlet]

The funny part about that is when Patrick finally started getting healthyI - Ithink it was from Jan 1 on - he maintained the same p/g pace as Hischier - only Patrick didn't have a Hart winner on his wing. Smaller sample size obviously but, I don't think their ceilings are terribly different .

Yeah, most concerns likely stem from his injury in his draft year as well as his injuries last year. His draft year PPG wasn't super impressive but if he had the whole year he would have fared far better. His lower PPG from junior, when mathed to comparables best NHL seasons statistically, would only place him in the 60 point range, which makes his potential seem unreasonably low.

That remains to be seen

Well obviously it remains to be seen... we are talking about things in the future... but putting that kind of risk on a young team who has looked solid so far is an unnecessary risk when we are talking about players who are roughly the same in terms of on ice production.

 

[Hockeypete49]

Nope

 

[Starat327]

Yeah, most concerns likely stem from his injury in his draft year as well as his injuries last year. His draft year PPG wasn't super impressive but if he had the whole year he would have fared far better. His lower PPG from junior, when mathed to comparables best NHL seasons statistically, would only place him in the 60 point range, which makes his potential seem unreasonably low.



Well obviously it remains to be seen... we are talking about things in the future... but putting that kind of risk on a young team who has looked solid so far is an unnecessary risk when we are talking about players who are roughly the same in terms of on ice production.

I believe he was dealing with injury in his draft year that also held him back. The only real concern I'd have at this point is his ability to stay healthy. Watching him, last year before and after "recovery" was like watching two different players. It's really fun watching him put it together, to be honest.

 

[Starat327]

To be exact, it was from Jan 31 onward.

Patrick had 21 points in the last 33 games to end the year....a 52 point pace. It gave insight that he could play at that pace over a long period of time. He did have a poor pre-season and start to the season which I was disappointed with, but he has been playing much better lately and has 6 points in 10 games. Not bad considering his poor start. 6 points his last 6 games.

But if I am the Canucks, not a chance I trade Horvat.

Oh, for sure, this is a bad deal for the Nucks, I'm not in any way saying they should make this deal. Just kinda pointing out that there's a reason why who went 1 and 2 in that draft was pretty up in the air until they made the pick.

 

[Rowlet]

I believe he was dealing with injury in his draft year that also held him back. The only real concern I'd have at this point is his ability to stay healthy. Watching him, last year before and after "recovery" was like watching two different players. It's really fun watching him put it together, to be honest.

Yeah, the injury in his draft year is why some see his point ceiling as an RNH level of player

 

[DaBadGuy316]

its sarcasm because I think the trade is terrible for Vancouver

That guy wouldn't know sarcasm if it slapped him in the face and took a dump on him.

 

[JTmillerForA1stLOL]

And do you think having the "much better player right now" is what's best for the rebuild?

Having Horvat on the roster this year could be the difference between finishing just outside of the playoffs or being a bottom 3 team with a shot at landing Hughes

You're acting as if Horvat is in his peak right now. The guy is constantly improving. It's not like adding Patrick would suddenly create this perfect timeline where all of our players would magically be ready at the exact same time.

At some point your players have to start growing and getting better and that's exactly what our young guys are doing right now.

Getting rid of someone who is proven he can play at a high level, is still getting better, is only 23 and is showing signs of being the next captain of the franchise doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

We're going to give that up to take a flyer (pun intended) on a guy with injury concerns who may or may not end up being as good as the player we're letting go?

Pass.

 

[M2Beezy]

its sarcasm because I think the trade is terrible for Vancouver

I thought so

 

[Neutrinos]

You're acting as if Horvat is in his peak right now. The guy is constantly improving. It's not like adding Patrick would suddenly create this perfect timeline where all of our players would magically be ready at the exact same time.

At some point your players have to start growing and getting better and that's exactly what our young guys are doing right now.

Getting rid of someone who is proven he can play at a high level, is still getting better, is only 23 and is showing signs of being the next captain of the franchise doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

We're going to give that up to take a flyer (pun intended) on a guy with injury concerns who may or may not end up being as good as the player we're letting go?

Pass.

Go back and read my messages. I've said nothing to suggest Horvat is in his peak right now

This team should be building through the draft, meaning the majority of their key players going forward are still playing in junior, so by the time they're ready to contend, Horvat will be nearing UFA

So I'm fine if you don't like the deal because you believe Patrick won't reach his potential, or because you worry about his history with injury, but the trade makes perfect sense from a timeline point of view - unless, of course, you think their core is set and all they need do is add a few minor pieces here and there in order to contend in the near future

 

[Breakers]

Patrick gets no respect on this site.

 

[Riptide]

It's not just about age, it's about their respective contract situations

By the time the Canucks are contenders in 3 - 4 years, Horvat will be nearing UFA

The same thing applies to Philly though. It might happen a little sooner... but they really need to get their blueline and goal tending sorted out first.

 

[JTmillerForA1stLOL]

Go back and read my messages. I've said nothing to suggest Horvat is in his peak right now

This team should be building through the draft, meaning the majority of their key players going forward are still playing in junior, so by the time they're ready to contend, Horvat will be nearing UFA

So I'm fine if you don't like the deal because you believe Patrick won't reach his potential, or because you worry about his history with injury, but the trade makes perfect sense from a timeline point of view - unless, of course, you think their core is set and all they need do is add a few minor pieces here and there in order to contend in the near future

We have built through the draft and the majority of our key players are playing in the NHL right now. So if we get rid of Horvat, do we need to dispose of boeser and pettersson too? They aren't playing in junior. Neither is Patrick for that matter. None of this makes sense.

Pettersson, Horvat, Boeser and Q. Hughes will be a huge part of our core going forward. If their development curves continue at this trajectory, I'd say that will be a pretty good core going forward.

And we'll have a shot a Hughes this year anyway. It's highly unlikely that we make the playoffs this year, and the % odds between the last 10 positions certainly aren't worth the risk of getting rid of Horvat with the hopes of jumping down a few spots.

So, no. Nothing about this makes perfect sense.

 

[PunkRockLocke]

*WHOOOSH*

He doesn't know what sarcasm is, he's displayed that numerous times.

 

[Ace of Hades]

No. Canucks pass.

 

[Neutrinos]

We have built through the draft and the majority of our key players are playing in the NHL right now. So if we get rid of Horvat, do we need to dispose of boeser and pettersson too? They aren't playing in junior. Neither is Patrick for that matter. None of this makes sense.

Pettersson, Horvat, Boeser and Q. Hughes will be a huge part of our core going forward. If their development curves continue at this trajectory, I'd say that will be a pretty good core going forward.

And we'll have a shot a Hughes this year anyway. It's highly unlikely that we make the playoffs this year, and the % odds between the last 10 positions certainly aren't worth the risk of getting rid of Horvat with the hopes of jumping down a few spots.

So, no. Nothing about this makes perfect sense.

We'll have to agree to disagree