News Article: Billboard On Yellowhead

[MarkGio]

That Dubnyk clearly developed some bad habits in Edmonton. he didn't get more specific.

I would gather that they involve bad mental habits. Dubnyk was clearly rattled in the Nashville game and became unglued. His focus wandered like we've seen so often in Edmonton and which was apparently accepted here.
I called it out immediately after seeing the Nashville game that it wouldn't be tolerated by Trotz.

Basically its about guys easily getting off their game and starting to fight it and buy in more to the frustration than the focus on winning and what it takes to do that.

These would be the bad habits. That we allow unfocused play, meltdowns, cluster****s, and keep playing the guys that do it.

Flames fans can't say that about Smid. There's no bad habits there regarding focus or buying in or anything, so this might be a Dubnyk issue moreso than an Oilers one.

 

[nexttothemoon]

The problems with having a rookie HC and a rookie GM is that we are all supposed to cut them slack because they are rookies... so 29th becomes acceptable because hey... give Eakins and MacT a chance, they are only rookies and need some time to "imprint" their marks on this team.

Well Eakins is 47 and MacT is 55... AND they've both been around hockey long enough that they don't get any slack from me.

29th is 29th... it's not working.

The team should have hired more experienced personnel for those most important coaching/management positions... that's on Lowe's head and now that they are floundering using the "patience for the rookies" mantra just doesn't cut it.

 

[Master Lok]

I'd tell MacT he's still got a job, but he's on thin ice. You've got some time, but if things aren't changing in the right by the time the draft is over then you're done. And you have to fire Eakins NOW if you want to keep your job. New HC gets to pick his guys, if you don't like it you can go home.

Terrible idea. One of the worst ideas I've ever heard for a gm. You've "got some time" means until the draft day? That's like less than a full year for Mact as a GM, and then you give him an ultimatum for another six months?

Either you fire him or you keep the GM to execute his plan. You certainly do not pressure the GM to try to save his job by making rash trades.

 

[Master Lok]

I can't imagine a GM being in a worse situation, to be honest.

Garth Snow of the Islanders. Similar situation, but less money and payroll.

 

[Master Lok]

The problems with having a rookie HC and a rookie GM is that we are all supposed to cut them slack because they are rookies... so 29th becomes acceptable because hey... give Eakins and MacT a chance, they are only rookies and need some time to "imprint" their marks on this team.

Well Eakins is 47 and MacT is 55... AND they've both been around hockey long enough that they don't get any slack from me.

29th is 29th... it's not working.

The team should have hired more experienced personnel for those most important coaching/management positions... that's on Lowe's head and now that they are floundering using the "patience for the rookies" mantra just doesn't cut it.

No, the problem is firing a head coach less than a season into his tenure and firing a GM less than a season into his tenure.

These are not things that organizations typically do, regardless of the experience of the coach or GM.

 

[nexttothemoon]

No, the problem is firing a head coach less than a season into his tenure and firing a GM less than a season into his tenure.

These are not things that organizations typically do, regardless of the experience of the coach or GM.

I agree... not many organizations would hire a rookie GM who then would hire a rookie HC to a 4 year contract.

Not many organizations miss the playoffs 8 years in a row and are in 29th and think that all is on schedule as well.

This is clearly not a typical organization.

 

[Halibut]

Rookie GM is not all that unheard of.

I think almost half the GM's in the league started as rookie GM's of course they may have had assistant positions first but so did MacT, just not for very long.

The problem isnt MacT per se, it's organizational philosophy which comes right from the top and includes all the management team. Lowe, MacT, Howson, etc. they all have similar ideas on how to build a team so we dont get much in the way of new ideas.

 

[rec28]

Rookie GM is not all that unheard of.

I think almost half the GM's in the league started as rookie GM's of course they may have had assistant positions first but so did MacT, just not for very long.

The problem isnt MacT per se, it's organizational philosophy which comes right from the top and includes all the management team. Lowe, MacT, Howson, etc. they all have similar ideas on how to build a team so we dont get much in the way of new ideas.

Um... I think every single one of them started as a rookie GM.

I think there's a fundamental misunderstanding on this board as to why Howson was hired (aside from cronyism). The role of GM can be split up into 2 main components: architect and business manager. Argue with the choice all you like, but I think the real purpose of bringing in Howson was to have someone to serve as an "experienced" GM for the technical and pure business process parts of the job, NOT to serve as architect. It also didn't hurt that he was a known quantity and known for having an excellent mind for the legal/cap/contract management side of the business. Effectively, I think MacT was given the keys in terms of vision, team composition, player evaluation, trades, etc. and Howson was brought in to help MacT learn the right levers to pull, buttons to push, status reports to complete and letters to draft/send. The latter can be learned; the former not as much, imo. I think Lowe (rightly or wrongly) trusts in MacT's pure hockey judgement enough to view the combination of the two to be the best of both worlds.

 

[Alex87]

I agree... not many organizations would hire a rookie GM who then would hire a rookie HC to a 4 year contract.

Not many organizations miss the playoffs 8 years in a row and are in 29th and think that all is on schedule as well.

This is clearly not a typical organization.

The Oilers have painted themselves into a corner here, and this is actually one problem that I can directly attribute to Lowe (who I feel mostly indifferent on).

They've had such high turnover in the HC position that they're completely handcuffed as to how to handle Eakins. The turnover can't be good for player development, but on the other hand, there is evidence to at least suggest Eakins isn't the right man for the job. So what can MacT do? He's damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

If Lowe really does vet decisions, then he never should have let Tambellini fire Tom Renney after only two seasons with the roster we had; this is particularly baffling considering Lowe gave MacT such a long leash as HC during the time he was here. This is partly 20/20 hindsight, but our coaching progression should have gone something like Quinn -> Renney -> Eakins/Krueger, or even better, Renney to Eakins/Krueger.

My prediction is that Eakins will get 20 games next year. If the Oilers are a .500 team, he keeps his job. If not, MacT will can him and bring in a veteran NHL coach. In MacTavish's eyes, it's the only palatable option right now.

 

[Joey Moss]

Flames fans can't say that about Smid. There's no bad habits there regarding focus or buying in or anything, so this might be a Dubnyk issue moreso than an Oilers one.

Not to troll, but the Flames aren't exactly in a position where they can spot bad habits or not.

 

[Halibut]

Um... I think every single one of them started as a rookie GM.

I think there's a fundamental misunderstanding on this board as to why Howson was hired (aside from cronyism). The role of GM can be split up into 2 main components: architect and business manager. Argue with the choice all you like, but I think the real purpose of bringing in Howson was to have someone to serve as an "experienced" GM for the technical and pure business process parts of the job, NOT to serve as architect. It also didn't hurt that he was a known quantity and known for having an excellent mind for the legal/cap/contract management side of the business.

Rookies as a gm with their current organization as opposed to a Glen Sather who has tons of experience before he went to the Rangers and had little success.

As for Howson, that might be the thinking behind the hiring but they already had Rick Olczyk to handle the legal side/contracts. It's very doubtful Howson gets the job if he hadnt already been with the team and it's a sign that they havent moved on from the management that drove this team to the bottom of the standings. They thought it would be a second shot at turning the team around from the falling point when MacT and Howson left, instead we get to relive the experience of crashing to the bottom of the standings. We've taken a step back to mediocrity and the team that was chasing Souray and Nylander, chasing Pitkanen out of town to get Erik Cole for a season. They've gone back to old tired ideas that didnt work then and are unlikely to work now. Time for someone else to take a shot at it.

 

[The Nuge]

Not to troll, but the Flames aren't exactly in a position where they can spot bad habits or not.

Of course they are. Unlike us, they actually have multiple competent people on staff. We only have MacT

 

[alanschu]

Who's head have people called for other than MacT? Tambo? Wasnt his firing about 5 years to late? I dont think any of the coaches had a strong contingent yammering for their firing, management did those changes on their own.

Every coach had a strong yammering of firing. It was pretty much routine on this forum ever since the wheels officially came of entirely during Quinn's first year.

It didn't hit billboard levels but it came up pretty much every single loss. Because that's what fans do. The team sucked, and the fans didn't want that, so they raged. It's what makes us a "hockey mad" city. When the team loses they get emotional and rage and figure they know what the solution to the problem is.

This doesn't even include players getting actively booed while on the ice. IIRC we actually made Cory Cross cry. How big of us.... But athletes aren't humans. They're commodities and they need to "deal with it" because they make lots of money, or something. All the while fans fail to click in that if players respond this way it's certainly NOT going to help this team perform better.

But people will make excuses because they want to rage. For all the insulting people do about how egotistical Eakins and Lowe is, just imagine the ego that is needed to rationalize that fans actually need to let the players and management know that the team sucks.

Do people honestly thing anyone in the organization is like "Doo doo do dooooo.... life is pretty good this hockey season?" Better let player X know he's underperforming. If we didn't, he'd probably be clueless about it!

 

[SWARM]

What about this. For very game going forward that Kevin Lowe is still a member of this organization. We will execute one puppy in front of Rexall until he is fired?

 

[rec28]

Rookies as a gm with their current organization as opposed to a Glen Sather who has tons of experience before he went to the Rangers and had little success.

I know what you meant...

Interesting example, though - Sather was a rookie GM hire when he started with the Oilers. He did pretty well...

As for Howson, that might be the thinking behind the hiring but they already had Rick Olczyk to handle the legal side/contracts.

True, but there's a world of difference between the role of legal counsel and GM. Olczyk has no GM experience.

It's very doubtful Howson gets the job if he hadnt already been with the team and it's a sign that they havent moved on from the management that drove this team to the bottom of the standings. They thought it would be a second shot at turning the team around from the falling point when MacT and Howson left, instead we get to relive the experience of crashing to the bottom of the standings. We've taken a step back to mediocrity and the team that was chasing Souray and Nylander, chasing Pitkanen out of town to get Erik Cole for a season. They've gone back to old tired ideas that didnt work then and are unlikely to work now.

Like I said, whether Howson was the right choice as experienced-GM-as-business-management-mentor is up for debate. And of course the fact that Howson was previously with the team played a huge part in it, but that's no different from any other club or any other business anywhere, ever. It's almost always who you know not what you know. That said, I think it's a perfectly defensible choice, given that Howson was well known as great process and business details guy, but - I think it's safe to say - did not demonstrate enough abililty in the role of architect during his time in CLB.

Time for someone else to take a shot at it.

I know I'll get flamed for this, but I think that's exactly what has happened. I think it's pretty well documented that MacT and Lowe had different philosophies when MacT was coach and Lowe was GM. There were all kinds of instances where MacT publicly voiced concerns and frustrations that he didn't have the players he needed while he was coaching the Oilers. I see MacT as being similar to Lowe in terms of his propensity to be active and actually do something (vs. Tambo's lack of.... anything) but based on their previous relationship I see the team architecture piece of the puzzle going in a different direction.

 

[I am the Liquor]

Of course they are. Unlike us, they actually have multiple competent people on staff. We only have MacT

You mean the guy who signed Gagner to a five mill deal with the promise not to trade him? Or the guy who thought Denis Grebeshkov was an nhl defenseman? Or the guy who foolishly stated what bold moves he was going to make as a rookie gm?

Ya, we can rest easy knowing we are in good hands with Mact.

 

[Jumptheshark]

I agree... not many organizations would hire a rookie GM who then would hire a rookie HC to a 4 year contract.

Not many organizations miss the playoffs 8 years in a row and are in 29th and think that all is on schedule as well.

This is clearly not a typical organization.

sakic and roy with the Avs say hello

 

[dustrock]

Garth Snow of the Islanders. Similar situation, but less money and payroll.

Fair enough, but at least he has New York to sell players on. And Eastern Conference has less travel.

 

[Beerfish]

Terrible idea. One of the worst ideas I've ever heard for a gm. You've "got some time" means until the draft day? That's like less than a full year for Mact as a GM, and then you give him an ultimatum for another six months?

Either you fire him or you keep the GM to execute his plan. You certainly do not pressure the GM to try to save his job by making rash trades.

The Oilers are the master of the old shell game, fire someone, hire someone new and then say 'give them time! How can you be so hard on a guy after a year!' MacT knew or should have known that he has no time relatively speaking. All of his actions and talk on the day he was hired indicated that he realized this, bold moves, impatient, improve quickly.

After the team sinks further in the dumpster they go back to the 'rebuild patience' mantra.

 

[Halibut]

But people will make excuses because they want to rage. For all the insulting people do about how egotistical Eakins and Lowe is, just imagine the ego that is needed to rationalize that fans actually need to let the players and management know that the team sucks.

Do people honestly thing anyone in the organization is like "Doo doo do dooooo.... life is pretty good this hockey season?" Better let player X know he's underperforming. If we didn't, he'd probably be clueless about it!

Katz and his letter sure seem to be doing exactly that. Doo doo do doooo just another bump in the road on the way to championshipville.

I agree the hammering on players is over the top here but man that's just guys talking hockey. Back in the 80's people were complaining that the Oilers couldnt play defence until they won the cup, winning shuts a lot of people up.

The get rid of Lowe talk is different though. It's a realization that this management team has proven incapable of building a winner in any timely fashion. It's people fed up with watching bad hockey. Straight up I like Lowe as a person and a hockey player and MacT, as I player I always said he was a smart player and would make a great coach or manager once his playing days ended. The problem is they've shown through 13 years that they are not capable and you cant let any respect they've earned get in the way of making the correct business decision here. You cant accept losing for this long without anything but the tiniest blip of success. We gave Lowe the excuse of budget concerns for a long time for not developing a winning team but other teams have done much better with less. Nashville, Phoenix, Columbus, all of them have had fiscal restraints at times and have had much better results for less.

I'd like to agree with Rec28 that MacT is different and we can hang all the problems on Lowe but I think that's falling for the same trap. Looking through Oiler colored glasses as it were. He's managed a couple decent things like the Perron trade and the Gordon signing but really is that much different than what Tambellini did? Isnt chasing Grebeshkov just like signing Cam Barker? I'd prefer to wipe the slate clean, get rid of them all and get some real fresh ideas. A completely new management team with no built in biases on the individuals already here. No relationships with this assistant coach or that trainer or that VP. No blindspots for guys they've brought into the organization, players or managers.

 

[sepHF]

 

[Gord]

looks like someone who no longer wants to be a fan, and nothing to do with firing Lowe, which is what I thought this thread was originally about.


I think it's a dumb thing to do with a jersey.
this person can now go cheer for the flames, for all I care.

 

[sepHF]

looks like someone who no longer wants to be a fan, and nothing to do with firing Lowe, which is what I thought this thread was originally about.


I think it's a dumb thing to do with a jersey.
this person can now go cheer for the flames, for all I care.

I'd say it's kind of relevant, I assume it's directed at Lowe.

And yeah I agree, I wouldn't be throwing a jersey away like that but I guess they want to send a message.

 

[flashy]

LOL.

Yessss

 

[MarkGio]

I guess it depends where that picture came from and if there was any supplemental message from the source. But I agree, as is, the jersey thing really doesn't say much. We can only guess what it means.