Bill Zito discussion thread

[zeroG]

you don't need a star captain rental. You need to make your own captains stronger and they learn by doing. By taking responsibility. Michael Jordan didn't learn to win with the help of Magic Johnson in the same thing. Learning to win is a process and as I wrote in 2020, it takes something like 4 years meaning that the team could be ready to win the cup in the '23-'24 season. It was just too early last year because the team had zero playoff experience. They had to learn and by acquiring some weak rentals who would vanish completely after the season you not only screw up the chemistry but also give an opportunity to some other players to hide behind the back of that "star captain rental". It was a lunatic move back then and still is. One of the most stupid trades ever.

that's your opinion. i don't need to remind you that you're a poster on an internet forum with no qualifications or experience so i know you'll understand that i (and most sane individuals) will defer to people like zito and his large staff of advisors who've worked with NHL players for decades and have a real understanding of the psychology of professional athletes and teams.

not that we can't speculate or criticize but your closing two sentences are, to be frank, ridiculous.

 

[zeroG]

Believe me, I didn’t want to correct that point lol… I don’t think it invalidated you. In general I still don’t agree, but I can meet you half way and say winning teams tend to bolster their roster. I just don’t think it’s necessarily the ones who make the biggest splash.

i'm not too sensitive.

i should know better - i was at city hall when he came back with the cup!

i'll agree with you there. certainly not about making the biggest splash but addressing weaknesses and adding depth to cover injuries.

 

[JP Mick]

Let me preface by saying I have no problem with the Giroux trade on it's own. However combined with the Chiarot trade then those moves did more than bad IN MY OPINION. Not to mention Zito overpaid but thats besides the point.

However, I dont think we should have gone all in WHEN we knew we had cap issues in the summer and would be losing multiple players and making the players we acquired as rentals by default. It would have been nice to make a big move like Boston did where they acquired Lindholm and was able to extend him. So maybe we should have waited till this year to make those trades. PLUS another reason we should have waited was because we did NOT even establish who the coach would be moving forward. The interim tag was never removed and no commitment was made to Brunette. The team was having a great season for sure but why would you go all in when you have a coach who is essentially auditioning for the job?

I dont ever recall a team making big moves when an interim coach behind the bench. Not to mention a rookie head coach at that.

Here are the 2 trades the Blues made after firing Yeo

View attachment 664241

The Kings traded for Jeff Carter at the TDL but they had announced Darryl Sutter as their head coach BEFORE all that happened. They had an interim coach for like a week after Murray was fired.

So I dont know. The season was going great but at the same time some conditions weren't really ideal I think.

And why even go all in when Ekblad went down with an injury again. I get he was expected, and did return for the playoffs but man he did not look the same or good in those series either.

They didnt switch out Brunette because they didnt want to rock the boat.

Well the boat got f***ing rocked in July

-Marchment
-Giroux
-Chiarot
-Hagg (lol)
-Weegar
-Huberdeau
- Brunette
-Acciari
-Thornton (lol)

+Tkachuk
+Cousins
+White (lol)
+Maurice (lol)


Just a perfect storm of bad timings. I dont know. From a high level it seems it could have been handled way better.

I can live with the Giroux trade just because he helped get us to the second round. in hindsight the Chiarot trade was horrible but I can tell Zito learned a lesson on that one already. I’ll stick behind a new GM that makes a couple mistakes trying to improve the team and learns from them. He’s not making that move again.

 

[Jean Luc Discard]

He’s not making that move again.

 

[Gentle Man]

Wish Florida had this before the Chiarot trade lmao

 

[zeroG]

Wish Florida had this before the Chiarot trade lmao

that's funny.

remember, tho that teams have their own models so it might not have come up with the answer you think.

 

[ShootIt]

He's using NHL23

 

[CHGoalie27]

If the guys on the ice for our powerplay didn't choke, none of the criticism is here. All praise.

Our defense and Bob were awesome. Even with the few historically weird Yandles from Weegar, I loved the fight they all put up. Anyone could go back and see Chiarot was a big part of that if they focus on him shift by shift. Should it have been a protected first? Probably. Obviously. Not the biggest deal though, really. We weren't finishing near Bedard anyway, of course thanks to the team Zito has built.

Maurice has made, or not made, a few moves that tested the patience of the entire fanbase at times this year. Especially when we were at our worst. But even then, now that i think about it, when we were being outscored- seldom were we outshot or outworked.

We're still right in the hunt when most people wrote us off. Not like we're Montreal, who can get Bedard from their own pick. But their coach gets nothing but praise, no matter what. Go figure.

As bad as things have ever been for us, it's never been better- even still today. I don't understand the impatience or unappreciation for the fact that he swung for the fence last year, has like zero dollars in cap space, and still managed to keep us competitive thru this year.

We have quite a bit of space clearing up this year. There's a long list of real good UFAs coming up that can replace whatever is considered dead weight, as we're an attractive destination these days. And since Zito's "dead weight" players have been much better than ever expected, I can still trust that whatever he does with the upcoming cap space will get everyone back on the build-a-statue campaign.

Never thought I'd be such an apologist in favor of the Panthers management, but here we are!

 

[BabyBennettov]

If the guys on the ice for our powerplay didn't choke, none of the criticism is here. All praise.

Our defense and Bob were awesome. Even with the few historically weird Yandles from Weegar, I loved the fight they all put up. Anyone could go back and see Chiarot was a big part of that if they focus on him shift by shift. Should it have been a protected first? Probably. Obviously. Not the biggest deal though, really. We weren't finishing near Bedard anyway, of course thanks to the team Zito has built.

Maurice has made, or not made, a few moves that tested the patience of the entire fanbase at times this year. Especially when we were at our worst. But even then, now that i think about it, when we were being outscored- seldom were we outshot or outworked.

We're still right in the hunt when most people wrote us off. Not like we're Montreal, who can get Bedard from their own pick. But their coach gets nothing but praise, no matter what. Go figure.

As bad as things have ever been for us, it's never been better- even still today. I don't understand the impatience or unappreciation for the fact that he swung for the fence last year, has like zero dollars in cap space, and still managed to keep us competitive thru this year.

We have quite a bit of space clearing up this year. There's a long list of real good UFAs coming up that can replace whatever is considered dead weight, as we're an attractive destination these days. And since Zito's "dead weight" players have been much better than ever expected, I can still trust that whatever he does with the upcoming cap space will get everyone back on the build-a-statue campaign.

Never thought I'd be such an apologist in favor of the Panthers management, but here we are!

This ! Amen !

And if/when we qualify for the playoffs, a lot of the fan-base will owe Zito an apology.

He knew it was a transition year, he knew their would be changes and struggles… But he never really planned to get Tkachuk, that was a pretty big curveball thrown at him…

He may have been scrambling since… But he is on pace to hit it out of the park !

And we will enter next July down two first round picks yes, but with a boatload of cash, a core around 26 years-old, some interesting prospects in the pipeline while still being viewed as one of the pretending/contending team… That’s pretty good to me !

 

[Little Bobby Boo]

This ! Amen !

And if/when we qualify for the playoffs, a lot of the fan-base will owe Zito an apology.

He knew it was a transition year, he knew their would be changes and struggles… But he never really planned to get Tkachuk, that was a pretty big curveball thrown at him…

He may have been scrambling since… But he is on pace to hit it out of the park !

And we will enter next July down two first round picks yes, but with a boatload of cash, a core around 26 years-old, some interesting prospects in the pipeline while still being viewed as one of the pretending/contending team… That’s pretty good to me !

I'm a Zito truther, but if this was a planned transition year/down year, he should not have traded an unprotected first for Chariot.

Again, I like Zito, but people are allowed to criticize him. Especially for this oversight.

 

[BabyBennettov]

I'm a Zito truther, but if this was a planned transition year/down year, he should not have traded an unprotected first for Chariot.

Again, I like Zito, but people are allowed to criticize him. Especially for this oversight.

Not saying he can't be criticized... I'm still skeptical on the Giroux-trade (just because I don't like the guy, love the player but not sure of the leader), Chiarot-trade we got fooled (or was it Brunette playing Chiarot 16-17minutes a night, when Zito payed a premium for him to be the defensive general on the first pair ?!)...

The transition year was "planned" AFTER last trade deadline-acquisitions... But remember last year was a surprise too... Zito saw a Presidents-trophy winning team, and saw the opportunity to add to our team while correcting two of our most important needs... I'm not sure that's what should have been done, this early, considering the lack of experience of our group, but hey you never know when your chance is there... But yeah that maybe his real misstep like you said !

But nobody will tell me after YEARS of futility, that seeing Zito trade for Reinhart, then going all-in at last trade-deadline while all the hockey world was talking about us... NOBODY will tell me you weren't proud and greatly pleased to see those moves ! Maybe you were disappointed with the price... But as a message to the League ? It was AMAZING.

If Zito signs Gavrikov this summer as his big FA acquisition, it will be the recouping of assets and you could even say replace Chiarot a year later (and upsets losing that first rounder IMO)... Then Zito only needs to go garbage-bin shopping and make 3-4 moves for underrated players... If we strike gold on one of those like we did with Verhaeghe or Duclair, we will be back on track... And Zito will have erased nearly all his assets-bleeding of the past year.

And knowing our GM, I'm pretty sure he is up to the challenge.

I was proud of his trade-deadline interview, and him sticking to his guys and his coach... And it looks like he will get rewarded for it... Which in the end, will be one of his biggest victory.

 

[sinDer]

Not saying he can't be criticized... I'm still skeptical on the Giroux-trade (just because I don't like the guy, love the player but not sure of the leader), Chiarot-trade we got fooled (or was it Brunette playing Chiarot 16-17minutes a night, when Zito payed a premium for him to be the defensive general on the first pair ?!)...

The transition year was "planned" AFTER last trade deadline-acquisitions... But remember last year was a surprise too... Zito saw a Presidents-trophy winning team, and saw the opportunity to add to our team while correcting two of our most important needs... I'm not sure that's what should have been done, this early, considering the lack of experience of our group, but hey you never know when you're chance is there... But yeah that maybe his real misstep like you said !

But nobody will tell me after YEARS of futility, that seeing Zito trade for Reinhart, then going all-in at last trade-deadline while all the hockey world was talking about us... NOBODY will tell me you weren't proud and greatly pleased to see those moves ! Maybe you were disappointed with the price... But as a message to the League ? It was AMAZING.

If Zito signs Gavrikov this summer as his big FA acquisition, it will be the recouping of assets and you could even say replace Chiarot a year later (and upsets losing that first rounder IMO)... Then Zito only needs to go garbage-bin shopping and make 3-4 moves for underrated players... If we strike gold on one of those like we did with Verhaeghe or Duclair, we will be back on track... And Zito will have erased nearly all his assets-bleeding of the past year.

And knowing our GM, I'm pretty sure he is up to the challenge.

I was proud of his trade-deadline interview, and him sticking to his guys and his coach... And it looks like he will get rewarded for it... Which in the end, will be one of his biggest victory.

To be honest, I was happy to get Giroux and Chiarot at the TDL.

But I’m a fan, a simple fan. I thought our team got better so I was pleased.

But I’m not a NHL DG. Zito is and he should have known better. Because this is literally his job.

My point is I think we can criticize his moves even if as fans we were happy about it.

 

[WaitingForThatCab]

It's fair to criticize Zito for the TDL moves being short-sighted and damaging in the long-term, just as it's fair to praise him for dodging the Huberdeau extension bullet.

Boy is Calgary f***ed.

 

[Gentle Man]

My main criticisms of Zito is his penchant to overpay. Whether in trades (Chiarot, Holy gross), or contracts (Knight). Although the Knight contract so far is the only overpay he has done, I am lumping it in with some of the trade payments he has done.

Now, that Huberdeau/Chucky trade. I know a lot of you have already said thats a win. When it comes to Huby for Chucky, it definitely is. Chucky should hit 100 points this season and would be his second one at 25. However, Ill say it is still incomplete from OUR point of view. I need to see who we come up with to replace Weegar. Ill give him a pass this season because of cap constraints. But next season I need to see who we replace Weegar with.

If Forsling is the plan next season to be a pair with Ekblad, then I need to see someone else in Staal's spot. Mahura is excellent on the 3rd pair.


The coaching hire is a whole different topic though. I wonder why we didnt try for Cassidy who is doing an outstanding job in Vegas.

 

[BabyBennettov]

To be honest, I was happy to get Giroux and Chiarot at the TDL.

But I’m a fan, a simple fan. I thought our team got better so I was pleased.

But I’m not a NHL DG. Zito is and he should have known better. Because this is literally his job.

My point is I think we can criticize his moves even if as fans we were happy about it.

I can critizicize him too...

All I was saying, it's that everybody promised him hell and our franchise being doomed after the first couple of months of this year...

When in the end, if we qualify for the playoffs this year and sign a great defenseman in free-agency this summer, we will be in as good a state as we've been as a franchise.

 

[BabyBennettov]

It's fair to criticize Zito for the TDL moves being short-sighted and damaging in the long-term, just as it's fair to praise him for dodging the Huberdeau extension bullet.

Boy is Calgary f***ed.

Exactly... Or praised him for the Verhaeghe signing and extension, or Duclair's... Or picking Forsling, picking Mahura...

Zito's bad decisions (Chiarot and Giroux) are already a year-old IMO...

If his worst move this year has been signing the Staal brothers, while being handcuffed by the cap (and Tkachuk's trade), I really have seen worse moves !

 

[zeroG]

The coaching hire is a whole different topic though. I wonder why we didnt try for Cassidy who is doing an outstanding job in Vegas.

Word is out that Bruins players had their say in Bruce Cassidy’s firing. It’s a risky revelation.

In the midst of confirming that Jake DeBrusk had rescinded his trade demand, Neely made it pretty clear players were chafing under Cassidy’s tough hand and were clearly ready for a change. The long-rumored notion was amplified when former NHL defenseman Ryan Whitney said on his podcast that he’d heard “the players really hated him.”

cassidy was not a slam dunk. i liked him in boston but some key players did not. some people seem to conveniently ignore that.

maurice, meanwhile, is the opposite - players and GMs seem to like him and he sticks around.

i don't think zito is the fool you think he is.

 

[Ghoste]

I was definitely intrigued when Cassidy became available. And was somewhat interested in Monty as well.

I see Zito as a very thorough guy so I’m sure they reached out to a number of candidates. Like we don’t know if Zito never reached out at all or if Cassidy just straight up picked Vegas.

-ghoste

 

[Gentle Man]

Word is out that Bruins players had their say in Bruce Cassidy’s firing. It’s a risky revelation.


cassidy was not a slam dunk. i liked him in boston but some key players did not. some people seem to conveniently ignore that.

maurice, meanwhile, is the opposite - players and GMs seem to like him and he sticks around.

i don't think zito is the fool you think he is.

You are probably confusing me with other posters. I have not been as against the hiring as others here. I fully acknowledge he got dealt a tough hand this season (injuries, cap, lack of viable replacement players). The goaltending we got through December has a lot to do with the team's spot as well. I have also acknowledged that by the analytics the team should be in a much, MUCH better spot.

Has he been perfect? No. No coach is. I think his history has a lot to do with how people are reacting this season. I think next season is when we can appropriately judge him when he SHOULD have much better replacement players for what was lost.

People forget year 1 with Quenneville was also really terrible.

I figured as much the players didnt like Cassidy, but seeing how Vegas is performing, I dont think he's a bad coach? He could be a tough one but whats wrong with that?

 

[CaptainScrewy]

My main criticisms of Zito is his penchant to overpay. Whether in trades (Chiarot, Holy gross), or contracts (Knight). Although the Knight contract so far is the only overpay he has done, I am lumping it in with some of the trade payments he has done.

Now, that Huberdeau/Chucky trade. I know a lot of you have already said thats a win. When it comes to Huby for Chucky, it definitely is. Chucky should hit 100 points this season and would be his second one at 25. However, Ill say it is still incomplete from OUR point of view. I need to see who we come up with to replace Weegar. Ill give him a pass this season because of cap constraints. But next season I need to see who we replace Weegar with.

If Forsling is the plan next season to be a pair with Ekblad, then I need to see someone else in Staal's spot. Mahura is excellent on the 3rd pair.


The coaching hire is a whole different topic though. I wonder why we didnt try for Cassidy who is doing an outstanding job in Vegas.

Stopped reading at "however". Tkachuk trade will go down as the greatest trade in this franchise history, there is no caveat to it. It's a clear WIN with absolutely no negative.

 

[Gentle Man]

Stopped reading at "however". Tkachuk trade will go down as the greatest trade in this franchise history, there is no caveat to it. It's a clear WIN with absolutely no negative.

lol

It's possible it is. But I still need to see the replacement for Weegar. It cannot be Marc. And I still have the Jagr trade as number 1.

Without that trade, who knows what would have happened with Huberdeau and Barkov. The leap they took after the trade cannot be discounted and without that leap, I doubt Tkachuk ends up wanting to come here 7 years later.

 

[CaptainScrewy]

lol

It's possible it is. But I still need to see the replacement for Weegar. It cannot be Marc. And I still have the Jagr trade as number 1.

Without that trade, who knows what would have happened with Huberdeau and Barkov. The leap they took after the trade cannot be discounted and without that leap, I doubt Tkachuk ends up wanting to come here 7 years later.

Doesn't matter who the replacement is. Weegar is NOT a top-pairing defenseman who is irreplaceable. The trade not only got us the best player in the deal (by a wide margin)_ but it also helped us big time with the salary cap in an era where that matters. That flexibility bought and who Zito uses that $ on is a transaction to be graded later.

 

[Gentle Man]

Doesn't matter who the replacement is. Weegar is NOT a top-pairing defenseman who is irreplaceable. The trade not only got us the best player in the deal (by a wide margin)_ but it also helped us big time with the salary cap in an era where that matters. That flexibility bought and who Zito uses that $ on is a transaction to be graded later.

Ill disagree. He is a top pairing DMan. He was here anyway. Irreplaceable? No. The DMen hitting UFA this summer is razor thin and I dont see anyone better than Weegar. Someone could be a surprise and end up being THAT guy, but looking at the names I dont see anyone.

 

[BabyBennettov]

Ill disagree. He is a top pairing DMan. He was here anyway. Irreplaceable? No. The DMen hitting UFA this summer is razor thin and I dont see anyone better than Weegar. Someone could be a surprise and end up being THAT guy, but looking at the names I dont see anyone.

Dumba, Orlov, Severson, Dunn, Graves, Gavrikov…

Sound like a pretty good market to me, if we’re looking for a Weegar-replacement, all those guys are better IMO, most of them are younger, and some will probably be cheaper…

So… If we get Zito’s pick out of those free-agents, I’m confident Cole Schwindt and a first will become laughable to every single one of us !

Edit: Never was a big-fan of Dumba and saw that his production didn’t pick-up this year… Forget him, his hockey-IQ is lower than Weegar, and he seems to have lost his explosiveness ! I would still take the other 5 over him…

Edit 2: Got fooled by Capfriendly and it was bothering me… Dunn is RFA. Still would take Gavrikov, Graves or Severson kinda long-term here !

 

[zeroG]

You are probably confusing me with other posters. I have not been as against the hiring as others here. I fully acknowledge he got dealt a tough hand this season (injuries, cap, lack of viable replacement players). The goaltending we got through December has a lot to do with the team's spot as well. I have also acknowledged that by the analytics the team should be in a much, MUCH better spot.

Has he been perfect? No. No coach is. I think his history has a lot to do with how people are reacting this season. I think next season is when we can appropriately judge him when he SHOULD have much better replacement players for what was lost.

People forget year 1 with Quenneville was also really terrible.

I figured as much the players didnt like Cassidy, but seeing how Vegas is performing, I dont think he's a bad coach? He could be a tough one but whats wrong with that?

absolutely nothing. i think he's a very good coach. i think zito knows that but was looking for something different - another very good coach but one who won't wear out his welcome so quickly.

we've had a problem with stability in the org so i happen to think that was a shrewd move if in fact it was a consideration.

apologize if the comment seemed directed only at you. may have indeed been confusing you with someone else.