Bill Zito discussion thread

[ucanthanzalthetruth]

I am going to be the one who makes the mistake of starting this thread. Just wanted to get everyone's thoughts. I thought he did a great job year 1 and year 2, but there have been some slipups:

-Caving to team pressure and not scratching Yandle
-Inexplicably letting Eric Staal keep his job
-Ben Chariot for a 1st round pick
-Gave up too many futures for a Calgary team in trouble
-Signed Maurice (I didn't mind the hire but looking like a mistake)

My main thing though is (and I've seen this a lot) everyone talks about this year like it's a retool year, because next year Florida's cap situation is a lot better (even if Bob stays). But:

1. It's a very weak UFA dman year
2. Panthers don't have assets to make a trade
3. Paul Maurice will probably be back

so there's less to be optimistic about imo...

Click to read more...

 

[Sticksandsun]

I'm tired of the praise he gets, so many questionable moves. Not saying Tallon's approach of keeping picks and prospects above anything is right but Florida's cupboards are empty and they have 1 playoff round win to show for it.

Also WAIVE ERIC STAAL.

 

[pantherbot]

yeah year 1 and 2 were good, but pluses and minuses more recently.

Hated that we caved to Yandle. Hated it then, hate it more now since the buyout is really screwing us this season. Not sure who to lay this on, but the decision should ultimately lay with Zito. Can't say how much I hate this decision.

I'd also say not buying out Hornqvist and trading Duclair earlier were mistakes. Yeah people can say that's looking at things in hindsight, but I thought these moves should have been made before our tight cap situation and Duke getting hurt. I love what Horny brings to this franchise, but he's not a $5M+ player anymore and we lost Marchment by keeping Horny. Should have bought him out and offered him a cushy job in management. And Duclair clearly just isn't a playoff type player. I'm guessing Zito has/had a soft spot for him and/or promised he'd stay or something like that due to their CBJ connection which has been brought up before. Both these mistakes are now costing us and were pretty clearly moves that should have been made at the time.

The Staal experiment...not much more to say here. It's probably not just on Zito, but yeah it's a a bad move.

Maurice is meh. He gets way too much hate and blame here, but he's also not that impressive. There just weren't that many options. Maybe Cassidy, but someone else has already gone through how maybe the timing didn't work or who knows, maybe he wanted to go to Vegas. Montgomery would have been a risk as well. Would not have wanted us to keep Bruno.

I don't hate the Chiarot trade as much as others, and understand taking the calculated risk given last year was probably one of our best chances at a cup in awhile. We're not set to be a Tampa/Colorado type team, we don't and didn't have the right prospects and contract situation. If we win anything, it'd be more like the Blues. So I didn't hate the moves at the TDL. I suspect he couldn't protect the Chiarot 1st because of the Giroux trade, so I get it. Still don't like the trade, but I get the logic. We needed defense, our team had the best chance in forever, so he made the move.

Calgary trade was a big win in my books. The assets required to make the trade add up to me, I've gone through it before. Have no problem with the trade. If we lost out on it because of not giving up Schwindt or whatever, I'd be pissed.

This year was always going to be a re-tool, even if we kept Huber and Weegar. Because of the Yandle buyout and Darlington, we had $7M+ of dead cap, then add Horny's $5M+ and that's like $13M in excess cap waste. But even still, we had/have a team good enough to make the playoffs. We're in the situation we're in this year because Barkov's personal issues and illness, Ekblad's injury, and goalies playing like crap for the first quarter of the season. So basically our number 1 center, dman, and goalie have been well below expectations. Even if we had kept Huber and Weegar, or even had another piece because no Yandle buyout, without our supposed best (or at least best paid) players playing well, we'd be in a bad spot anyways.

So yeah, Zito's made some good and bad moves the past year. I'd say overall still net positive on what he could control, but definitely room for improvement. As long as he's learning from his mistakes, I hope he's our GM for a long time.

 

[letsgrowcactus]

Should he be fired, not at this point (I want to see what he does to fix this mess in the offseason).
Is the honeymoon period over, 1000 times yes.

Pantherbot summed many of the big points though I'm far more critical of PoMo and Chiarot trade. I'd add that we really should have known better than to go into a season with cap for 20 guys - it definitely cost us points - and that not doing more to replace Weegar was a big mistake.

It's been said a million times but Zito has overpaid on almost every trade lately (actually, as BB88 pointed out elsewhere, since the Reinhart trade). Even if It's just a little each time (and man was that Chiarot trade horrible), it has added up fast.

This season feels over and it's not even Christmas yet. Maybe Knight and Lundell come back and save the season, but I doubt it.

 

[Dr Beinfest]

The guy definitely deserves to be questioned at this point for how he has handled the coaching stuff and how poorly he did asset and cap management last season. It was so easy to turn a blind eye to it because f*** it, but we were all living in the moment.

 

[Mogo]

Is it safe to say pretty much every move after picking up Forsling from waivers has been meh/bad

 

[WaitingForThatCab]

I think the Tkachuk trade was good in the long run for the team. Zito is still making good pickups off of the scrap heap with guys like Mahura and Cousins. We are seeing that we have some AHLers who can play on the 4th line and actually be a credit to the team. There's talent in the organization.

What I'm evaluating Bill Zito on right now is just one thing: How long it takes him to fire Paul Maurice. I've seen enough. Team needs to own up to its mistake and cut bait ASAP. I wouldn't let this guy manage a call center, let alone world-class athletes worth tens or hundreds of millions of dollars.

Maurice reminds me of former Dolphins head coach Joe Philbin. I think that wraps it right in all respects. Gave a nice press conference when he got hired, had a couple of good ideas, and everyone quickly found out that he had the people management skills of a cardboard box.

Clock's ticking on what Zito and ownership do about this guy. I think as soon as it's clear that the team isn't making the playoffs, the trigger has to be pulled with extreme prejudice. You simply can't let this f***ing egghead deflate the room any more than it already is.

 

[WaitingForThatCab]

Also, Eric Staal got his goal. Please send him home. This is outrageous.

Send his brother home, too. It's a giant boat anchor around the whole team when you have players who can't be counted on to get to a loose puck, recover any kind of position, or join in an odd-man rush chance.

Just f***ing cut them, why is this so hard to do? The team is expiring and you're running out two veterans who can't skate every night? Why? For what reason? They don't even have a history here, Panthers fans don't give a shit about them. Why are they still here?

I feel like I'm the subject of some bizarre humiliation ritual. There's no other explanation for this insanity.

 

[Ryuji Yamazaki]

He was great year 1 and 2, then one of the worst in the league. I’d give him til the end of the year but this team isn’t making the playoffs. If by some miracle we do, we’ll get swept first round.

 

[austropanther]

Also, Eric Staal got his goal. Please send him home. This is outrageous.

Send his brother home, too. It's a giant boat anchor around the whole team when you have players who can't be counted on to get to a loose puck, recover any kind of position, or join in an odd-man rush chance.

Just f***ing cut them, why is this so hard to do? The team is expiring and you're running out two veterans who can't skate every night? Why? For what reason? They don't even have a history here, Panthers fans don't give a shit about them. Why are they still here?

I feel like I'm the subject of some bizarre humiliation ritual. There's no other explanation for this insanity.

I can see what Zito tried to do with E Staal. He was supposed to be the new Jumbo Joe - another vet we can play for to get him another cup and bringing leadership - while being able to contribute maybe a bit more on the ice. But not to play over 60 games! Missing veteran presence has not been our issue IMO, so giving a fixed roster and lineup spot away to this guy does not make any sense at all. One of his worst decisions so far since now it is too late capwise to sign somebody else or demote him to the AHL.

 

[letsgrowcactus]

I think the Tkachuk trade was good in the long run for the team. Zito is still making good pickups off of the scrap heap with guys like Mahura and Cousins. We are seeing that we have some AHLers who can play on the 4th line and actually be a credit to the team. There's talent in the organization.

What I'm evaluating Bill Zito on right now is just one thing: How long it takes him to fire Paul Maurice. I've seen enough. Team needs to own up to its mistake and cut bait ASAP. I wouldn't let this guy manage a call center, let alone world-class athletes worth tens or hundreds of millions of dollars.

Maurice reminds me of former Dolphins head coach Joe Philbin. I think that wraps it right in all respects. Gave a nice press conference when he got hired, had a couple of good ideas, and everyone quickly found out that he had the people management skills of a cardboard box.

Clock's ticking on what Zito and ownership do about this guy. I think as soon as it's clear that the team isn't making the playoffs, the trigger has to be pulled with extreme prejudice. You simply can't let this f***ing egghead deflate the room any more than it already is.

My Extraliga team just fired their coach, who was also hired this summer.
Seems this summer was not a good time in terms of coach-hiring for my teams....

 

[scholl]

My Extraliga team just fired their coach, who was also hired this summer.
Seems this summer was not a good time in terms of coach-hiring for my teams....

My Liiga team HIFK doesn't fire ex-Panthers player Ville Peltonen although the team is despite of top 3 budget out of playoff spots when half of the regular season has been played. He is a local hero whose dad already wore the jersey. Honestly after scoring hat trick in the world championships final in 1995 it would still be very difficult to fire him in 2022. HIFK and Panthers have a lot in common. Top guys and no. 1 goalie playing much worse than expected, some weaknesses in the roster and coaches pretty satisfied because teams are hardworking, generate goal scoring opportunities and so on. In both situations many people also like to remind us that coaches aren't the ones who should score goals. This magical situation is called lumous (in English enchantment) and I don't think it will be over anytime soon.

 

[BB88]

One has to give him a lot of credit on turning around the Panthers few years ago.
That still doesn’t mean no one can critize him

He’s made a lot of great cheap finds who have turned their game around in Florida.

He’s also overpaid in basically every trade he has made the last year and it’s really starting to pile up.
Even if you love Tkachuk& he’s been the MVP that price on it’s own still makes no sense.
Superstar winger+ 1st pair Dman+ prospect+ a 1st round pick for him.
I understand it can’t be Hubs for Tkachuk one for one but that’s why you added a top pair Dman on his prime to the table.

1st for Chiarot never made any sense, never.

1st for Giroux made no sense. There was 1 team he was willing to waive and you pay 1st+ Tippett with no competition.

One of those 1st round picks would have bought him cap space this summer.


& I said on the summer hiring Maurice is his biggest mistake.
Taking this team to playoffs shouldn’t be an accomplishment, it should be given& now they are even really struggling at that.


Edit, if he stays on the job his next offseason will be major.
He has to win the offseason.

Rebuild the defense& find a way to get rid of Bob.
That’s where he can win lot of people back.

It’s a big ask given the limited assets but he or someone else has to do it or the window loses multiple years.

 

[Panteras]

Disagree with the thread premise and most posters here.

I believe that the Yandle situation is a misconception. Yandle was gone within months of Zito being a GM. Zito was new in the organization and we were making the playoffs, but he was taking notes. You can easily argue the man didn’t want to upset team morale as the ones in the Yandle “clique” were important well established players like Huberdeau, Ekblad, and Weegar. But he clearly did not like this locker room politics. So he bought Yandle out first chance he got. I mean, ultimately coach Q was the one that made locker room decisions no? Yandle was benched in the playoffs no?

The Calgary trade is a trade I make 10 times over. Been said many times that Calgary wanted some draft picks as a security/collateral in the event that Huberdeau and Weegar didn’t sign. Would you cancel this trade knowing those draft picks and prospect needed to be thrown in? I don’t think so. Not to mention this whole trade goes in line with the above, Zito took notes and is little by little dismantling that Yandle “clique”, up next on the chopping block is Ekblad. Quote me on that one.

A first for Chariot was the going price at that point in the market. Sure, we can say he easily shouldn’t have paid it. But we were going all in. When have we as a franchise had a chance to go all in? Can someone tell me…. I for one applaud a GM who’s living the moment and has the balls to go for it. We lose a first rounder, as if drafting in the first round for 30 years gotten us anywhere. This is Hfboards so no surprise on the drafting infatuation.

The Erik Staal situation is obviously a joke, guy shouldn’t be playing. Balcers should be here. No idea why Zito insists on this 100%.

And finally, PoMo. Cmon guys, we’ve been through this. At the time that Zito realistically should’ve started looking for a coach, who was available better than PoMo? Anyone who comes here and says Zito should’ve started looking before we got swept by Tampa is being 100% disingenuous.

I just think we’re clearly upset and as usual trying to find blame in any little thing. OP is complaining about this year being a retool because the upcoming offseason is not great for UFAs. How is it Zito’s fault that the POS cap situation he was handed worked out this way? Was he supposed to have kept the depth that walked during the summer so that this wouldn’t be a retool year? With what space? Lol

Seems like a lot of reactionary projection here, but again, not Zito’s fault that people here had misguided expectations. Anyone that saw the cap constraints and Zito’s struggles to even ice a full team should’ve known that this was barely going to be a playoff team. I warned about it, but many here had already pencilled us in. Again, that’s on ya’lls for not seeing the team for what it is. Mediocre.

 

[ShootIt]

1. I don't blame Zito for the Yandle issue. He wasn't tradeable with his deal. Scratching him would of done nothing in terms of moving that deal.
2. The Chariot and Giroux deals were bad in hindsight. The team was on fire last year and adding a middle pairing "rock" defender and another center seemed like good deals. Sucks both were rentals and we lost picks/prospects.
3. Eric Staal issue sucks but to me that's more on PM.
4. Calgary trade there were other interested parties for Matt. Sure, it makes sense for Calgary to ship him out east but we had other bidders. I forget if the other teams offers got leaked or not. Cal did re-sign both Weegar and Huberdeau so IMO there should of been a condition on that but there was the risk of both walking.
5. Not worried about next years Defenseman pool. While our trade assets are low, there's always the chance at a trade, and it could be Reinhart for a defenseman or another player that can be moved etc...
6. Q should of been our HC last year and this year.

I'm torn between option 2 and 3 but will go with 2.
For years we watched Tallon hoard picks and prospects and miss out on established players on trades. I think Zito went overboard in hindsight but at least it made sense as the team was #1 in the league and not a fringe playoff team.

 

[letsgrowcactus]

2. The Chariot and Giroux deals were bad in hindsight. The team was on fire last year and adding a middle pairing "rock" defender and another center seemed like good deals. Sucks both were rentals and we lost picks/prospects.

They were bad the moment they were made, not in hindsight.
Giroux was an overpayment and a luxury, but at least he did something in the playoffs - though I wouldn't have gone after a big name forward at the TDL and I disagree with the price we paid, especially with his NMC. Chiarot OTOH was not just an awful overpayment; he was a terrible trade target from the start.

 

[KW]

Disagree with the thread premise and most posters here.

I believe that the Yandle situation is a misconception. Yandle was gone within months of Zito being a GM. Zito was new in the organization and we were making the playoffs, but he was taking notes. You can easily argue the man didn’t want to upset team morale as the ones in the Yandle “clique” were important well established players like Huberdeau, Ekblad, and Weegar. But he clearly did not like this locker room politics. So he bought Yandle out first chance he got. I mean, ultimately coach Q was the one that made locker room decisions no? Yandle was benched in the playoffs no?

The Calgary trade is a trade I make 10 times over. Been said many times that Calgary wanted some draft picks as a security/collateral in the event that Huberdeau and Weegar didn’t sign. Would you cancel this trade knowing those draft picks and prospect needed to be thrown in? I don’t think so. Not to mention this whole trade goes in line with the above, Zito took notes and is little by little dismantling that Yandle “clique”, up next on the chopping block is Ekblad. Quote me on that one.

A first for Chariot was the going price at that point in the market. Sure, we can say he easily shouldn’t have paid it. But we were going all in. When have we as a franchise had a chance to go all in? Can someone tell me…. I for one applaud a GM who’s living the moment and has the balls to go for it. We lose a first rounder, as if drafting in the first round for 30 years gotten us anywhere. This is Hfboards so no surprise on the drafting infatuation.

The Erik Staal situation is obviously a joke, guy shouldn’t be playing. Balcers should be here. No idea why Zito insists on this 100%.

And finally, PoMo. Cmon guys, we’ve been through this. At the time that Zito realistically should’ve started looking for a coach, who was available better than PoMo? Anyone who comes here and says Zito should’ve started looking before we got swept by Tampa is being 100% disingenuous.

I just think we’re clearly upset and as usual trying to find blame in any little thing. OP is complaining about this year being a retool because the upcoming offseason is not great for UFAs. How is it Zito’s fault that the POS cap situation he was handed worked out this way? Was he supposed to have kept the depth that walked during the summer so that this wouldn’t be a retool year? With what space? Lol

Seems like a lot of reactionary projection here, but again, not Zito’s fault that people here had misguided expectations. Anyone that saw the cap constraints and Zito’s struggles to even ice a full team should’ve known that this was barely going to be a playoff team. I warned about it, but many here had already pencilled us in. Again, that’s on ya’lls for not seeing the team for what it is. Mediocre.

I understand the points you make and they are “correct” in a sense, however no one put a gun to Zito’s head to take the job. That decision was his alone. If he didn’t know what he was going into, that’s his fault. He owns it all now. It’s not about fairness and unfairness. He could have gone elsewhere or done something else. So if something doesn’t happen as the season slips away, he’s gonna have to get a chunk of the blame.

 

[ShootIt]

They were bad the moment they were made, not in hindsight.
Giroux was an overpayment and a luxury, but at least he did something in the playoffs - though I wouldn't have gone after a big name forward at the TDL and I disagree with the price we paid, especially with his NMC. Chiarot OTOH was not just an awful overpayment; he was a terrible trade target from the start.

Let me make a minor correction on my last post.
I didn't mind trading for both. The cost sucked right away, but I did understand why he made those moves. Chariot didn't pan out. Part of it was due to Ekblad being out IMO and poor meshing when they were together.
Obviously in hindsight I would of never wanted Chariot.

Giroux to me made sense as he was a plus FO winner, ton of experience and was added depth for a center lineup that had a drop in talent from line 1 to 2. It kept Bennett on the wing and Lundell as a #3 center.

 

[Howboutthempanthers]

I don't think these individuals matter as much as people think. Zito is starting to get the latest of what a lot of other individuals in this franchise have gotten throughout the years. Somebody is going to get the majority of the blame for the franchise's problems. That includes management, coaches, and players. It's a lot of things that have to fall into to place to make a franchise a legit contender.
You have to build up a team from the bottom up. They have to grow together and stay together. Now the other thing is the management has to have a plan, a good plan, and stick to it. And that in part means the ownership and the team president and GM all have to be on the same page. And they have to be on the same page at the start of a rebuild. You have to get the right coach at the right time..... And that's just a little bit of what has to go right.
Most of these things are out of people's hands. Some things just have to fall in place. It's just timing.
Zito is doing what he thinks is the best way to get this team to the top in this situation. But I don't think he has much control over it. I was never one to go over the top with the praise for him. And I don't think he's the swinging towards the other end now either.
The retool I think is overrated. Until they get to another rebuild at some point, and have everything lined up so that, that rebuild is done right, they won't be sniffing a title IMO.
So yeah, to go with the last paragraph. Basically none of the players you see now are going to be a part of the title that this franchise finally does win. And maybe none of the management, and might not even be the same ownership group.

 

[WaitingForThatCab]

1. I don't blame Zito for the Yandle issue. He wasn't tradeable with his deal. Scratching him would of done nothing in terms of moving that deal.
2. The Chariot and Giroux deals were bad in hindsight. The team was on fire last year and adding a middle pairing "rock" defender and another center seemed like good deals. Sucks both were rentals and we lost picks/prospects.
3. Eric Staal issue sucks but to me that's more on PM.
4. Calgary trade there were other interested parties for Matt. Sure, it makes sense for Calgary to ship him out east but we had other bidders. I forget if the other teams offers got leaked or not. Cal did re-sign both Weegar and Huberdeau so IMO there should of been a condition on that but there was the risk of both walking.
5. Not worried about next years Defenseman pool. While our trade assets are low, there's always the chance at a trade, and it could be Reinhart for a defenseman or another player that can be moved etc...
6. Q should of been our HC last year and this year.

I'm torn between option 2 and 3 but will go with 2.
For years we watched Tallon hoard picks and prospects and miss out on established players on trades. I think Zito went overboard in hindsight but at least it made sense as the team was #1 in the league and not a fringe playoff team.

On your point number six, should be next year, as well. Don't think the league office is going to help us out in that regard, though. Managing public perception more important than looking at facts.

 

[StrangeVision]

On your point number six, should be next year, as well. Don't think the league office is going to help us out in that regard, though. Managing public perception more important than looking at facts.

Ignoring rape in the pursuit of a winning a game is abhorrent. The league is correct on this issue.

 

[wampa13jku]

I think the Tkachuk trade was good in the long run for the team. Zito is still making good pickups off of the scrap heap with guys like Mahura and Cousins. We are seeing that we have some AHLers who can play on the 4th line and actually be a credit to the team. There's talent in the organization.

What I'm evaluating Bill Zito on right now is just one thing: How long it takes him to fire Paul Maurice. I've seen enough. Team needs to own up to its mistake and cut bait ASAP. I wouldn't let this guy manage a call center, let alone world-class athletes worth tens or hundreds of millions of dollars.

Maurice reminds me of former Dolphins head coach Joe Philbin. I think that wraps it right in all respects. Gave a nice press conference when he got hired, had a couple of good ideas, and everyone quickly found out that he had the people management skills of a cardboard box.

Clock's ticking on what Zito and ownership do about this guy. I think as soon as it's clear that the team isn't making the playoffs, the trigger has to be pulled with extreme prejudice. You simply can't let this f***ing egghead deflate the room any more than it already is.

I read Joe Philbin and I remembered when he got quoted as “feeling queasy and antsy” to call a pass play late in a game on 3rd down, so he goes ahead and let the OC call a run on 3rd and 9, HAHA. If thats how having Maurice feels like then we are f***ed and a half.

 

[WaitingForThatCab]

Ignoring rape in the pursuit of a winning a game is abhorrent. The league is correct on this issue.

Can't say that's even remotely close to what happened based on the facts presented to the public. Unfortunately, the case never went to trial and all we got was an appeal to emotion from someone with a financial stake in the matter.

 

[RogerRoger]

I rather flame up in a blaze of glory shooting for the stars and being aggressive than being a tentative meek franchise that finds comfort in maybe reaching mediocrity a couple of times a decade and always setting itself up for next year.

 

[Panteras]

I understand the points you make and they are “correct” in a sense, however no one put a gun to Zito’s head to take the job. That decision was his alone. If he didn’t know what he was going into, that’s his fault. He owns it all now. It’s not about fairness and unfairness. He could have gone elsewhere or done something else. So if something doesn’t happen as the season slips away, he’s gonna have to get a chunk of the blame.

I don’t think any of what I said would imply that Zito didn’t know what he was getting himself into. Saying that he was given a shitty situation is not an excuse, rather that he’s already squeezed water out rocks and that asking for more is not realistic. Therefore, if anything, in my opinion, the ones that didn’t know what they were getting themselves into were those fans that had unrealistic expectations for this season. I remember seeing stuff in here like “no question we’d made the playoffs bla bla” “oh yeah we can bring up Hepo and Deni and they can play in top line with Barkov” this and that….pfftsss some people be smoking some real good ganja in here.