Bill Ny the contractless guy (part 8)

[Nineteen67]

Interesting... at what point do the Leafs see a benefit though?

Interesting. This is another example of us not having all the information at our fingertips.

Who knows, maybe they’ve discussed this with Willy et al

 

[Stephen]

not asking anyone to care , only voicing my opinion

JT to me is a elite winger playing center , he's good on the draw but meh defensively and positionally as i said he plays much more like winger in the o zone than Marner .

and Marner was showing signs last season of what he could be so if the fan base was given the choice between a 28 yr old JT and a 21 yr old Marner before JT signed i have to believe the fans would have easily chosen MM

Really? JT plays a similar high end center grinder game to Crosby... I understand the risk of signing him, but it was pretty much a no brainer to add that elite talent. Even if it shakes one of the big three like Nylander loose, you still can trade him for a boatload of assets and the organization as a whole is still better off.

 

[Nineteen67]

I'm praying for a bridge

Ha. Didn’t Sarah Palin do that same thing once?

 

[ACC1224]

Right, but Gross is getting a percentage for his work as well. How much.... who knows.

Yes, all agents are paid for their work.

 

[diceman934]

What would firing Gross do?

Nothing at all is the correct answer.

 

[ToneDog]

I have said that an offer of 8-8.5MM might be in the ballpark with Marner to sign an early deal. Coming off a 69 point season, you would be paying him appropriately if he was a point a game player at his age. If he succeeded in getting over 90, we would be looking at something closer to 9-10 MM
I said something untrue a few weeks ago. I said that if Marner put up 5 points on opening day that I would have trouble sleeping if he wasn't signed. Well I already have trouble sleeping because of that last game.

I am not losing any sleep over any of these nice problems to have. I might sleep if they win the Cup before AM and MM are signed

Seriously Dubbie said we have two capologists who have crunched all the numbers when it comes to Willie, AM and MM. They can lose lose sleep if they haven't done the math correctly. Until then I am going to wait to see how this all plays out while at the same time enjoy watching these guys fill opponents' nets.

 

[diceman934]

I'd assume that as a grown man if Nylander wanted to just sign he would sign. Gross and his dad don't have him locked in a basement somewhere.

You sure? Lol. I thought it was a Chalet in the middle of nowhere like Rocky was when he was preparing To fight the Russian.?

 

[hotpaws]

Don't project the reverse of your desire to see Dubas fail onto me.
Dubas = Maple Leafs GM. Now that he has been promoted all I care about as far as Dubas goes is that he makes good decisions and generates good outcomes for the Leafs. In this situation that means balancing short term and long term needs to arrive at a fair contract that doesn't harm the Leafs over it's duration.

To me that means either-
-leveraging RFA status and bridge years to get a 7 or 8 year deal at a cap hit that allows us to be as competitive as possible over the course of the contract

-giving a three year bridge that gets us great value in the short term and gives us flexibility to either pursue a long term solution after or extract value through trade.

Personally I favor the latter, but Dubas want's the former. I'd rather a bridge than an overpay for the sake of term.

why would i want to see Dubas fail considering it would negatively affect the team ?

i simply stated what i believe Willie is worth and i based that on years of similar players signing for 5/6 yr terms , you then tried to turn that into me believing a 5/6 term is fair because i want Dubas to fail

if your arguing we should all want Willie to sign a 8 yr team friendly contract i'd agree but that doesn't mean i believe it would be fair to the player

 

[member 300185]

We still have tons of firepower without Nylander. I like Ellis on Matthews right side.

Trade Nylander for Hanifin straight up. Hanifin is signed to a great deal. Nylander probably is slightly better, even though they play in 2 different positions.

The issue becomes defence. He is a lefty. But that can be fixed.

How about moving Rielly to the right side and slot Hanifin on the left next to him. I thought about moving Gardiner to the right side but he doesn't have what is needed between the ears to make that transition. Rielly clearly does and would not miss a step.

Hanifin is signed for 6 years at 4.95 per. That is a hellova deal. It makes sense for the Leafs, it makes sense for Calgary. Hanifin is still classified as a #2 but he is still young and developing. I think he will top out easily as a #1 D man.

Nylander father played for Calgary for 5 years and has said it was one of his favourite places to play.

 

[Walshy7]

Keep on digging. We would only need to shed the difference between our commitment to salary contracts and the cap. You seeming think that if we spend say 10m on Marner and say 12m on Mathews we need to shed all of their cap hit when we would only need to shed the amount over the cap. Lets say that puts us 3 million over the cap then we need to shed a player or combination of players to get under the cap. Not their whole cap hit under.
We would lose a depth player and more likely Gardiner who would be replaced by a cheaper D man.

wait hang on, when Matthews and marner's deals kick in they will take their salaries from 900K (roughly) to $10M plus. Lets say $10M each for arguments sake, would that not now be adding $9.1M for each player to the cap that wasn't there the year before? so $18.2M more cap than this year?.

right now we have $13M with willy to sign lets say he gets $6.5 (I don't want to argue about nylander being overpaid at that price) that means $6.5 is left and lets use that, couple that with Gardiner and hainsey not resigning that's $7M so we would be at $13.5. Then there are 5 other RFA's next offseason lets call them $1M each so $5 more million to the kitty. $18.5.

We get to Matthews and Marners $18.2 with 8 more roster players still needed to get to 23 man roster, how much do you think the cap will rise? we only have Nathan Horton's get out of jail card for this season and next. This doesn't even inluced RFA/UFA's that are on the marlies, and I think $10M for Matthews is going to be low too.

Could be way off here but its tighter than you think

 

[ACC1224]

We still have tons of firepower without Nylander. I like Ellis on Matthews right side.

Trade Nylander for Hanifin straight up. Hanifin is signed to a great deal. Nylander probably is slightly better, even though they play in 2 different positions.

The issue becomes defence. He is a lefty. But that can be fixed.

How about moving Rielly to the right side and slot Hanifin on the left next to him. I thought about moving Gardiner to the right side but he doesn't have what is needed between the ears to make that transition. Rielly clearly does and would not miss a step.

Hanifin is signed for 6 years at 4.95 per. That is a hellova deal. It makes sense for the Leafs, it makes sense for Calgary. Hanifin is still classified as a #2 but he is still young and developing. I think he will top out easily as a #1 D man.

Nylander father played for Calgary for 5 years and has said it was one of his favourite places to play.

I don't think Calgary makes that deal.

 

[Critical13]

We still have tons of firepower without Nylander. I like Ellis on Matthews right side.

Trade Nylander for Hanifin straight up. Hanifin is signed to a great deal. Nylander probably is slightly better, even though they play in 2 different positions.

The issue becomes defence. He is a lefty. But that can be fixed.

How about moving Rielly to the right side and slot Hanifin on the left next to him. I thought about moving Gardiner to the right side but he doesn't have what is needed between the ears to make that transition. Rielly clearly does and would not miss a step.

Hanifin is signed for 6 years at 4.95 per. That is a hellova deal. It makes sense for the Leafs, it makes sense for Calgary. Hanifin is still classified as a #2 but he is still young and developing. I think he will top out easily as a #1 D man.

Nylander father played for Calgary for 5 years and has said it was one of his favourite places to play.

Trading for another LD basically means 5 of our top 6 organizational defenders all play the left side...

Rielly
Gardiner
Hanifan
Dermott
Sandin

It just doesn't help us.

 

[hotpaws]

Really? JT plays a similar high end center grinder game to Crosby... I understand the risk of signing him, but it was pretty much a no brainer to add that elite talent. Even if it shakes one of the big three like Nylander loose, you still can trade him for a boatload of assets and the organization as a whole is still better off.

yea when the pucks down low he plays a similar style to Sid but Crosby's much more active in all 3 zones and doesn't set up down low below the puck and away from the play like JT does consistently

i'm really hoping people aren't setting themselves up to be disappointed by believing JT is somehow a similar player albeit at a slightly lower level than Crosby because he doesn't have that type of game and expecting it of him is setting unreal expectations and would be unfair to Tavares

JT will get his points , especially considering the talent he's being added to so i just hope people appreciate him for the type of player he is .

 

[Walshy7]

I'd assume that as a grown man if Nylander wanted to just sign he would sign. Gross and his dad don't have him locked in a basement somewhere.

id assume the first time any player goes through something like this, theyd listen to the advice of the guy they hired to get them the best deal. Might be just me here but why would he think he knows better than an experienced agent and his dad (rightly or wrongly if his dad is involved) pretty silly take this one. Also 22 yr old hockey player isn't the same a 22 yr old you or me who had to get jobs and pay taxes to eat no?>

 

[ACC1224]

id assume the first time any player goes through something like this, theyd listen to the advice of the guy they hired to get them the best deal. Might be just me here but why would he think he knows better than an experienced agent and his dad (rightly or wrongly if his dad is involved) pretty silly take this one. Also 22 yr old hockey player isn't the same a 22 yr old you or me who had to get jobs and pay taxes to eat no?>

I agree. You'd have to ask the guy who wants him to fire his agent.

 

[hamzarocks]

wait hang on, when Matthews and marner's deals kick in they will take their salaries from 900K (roughly) to $10M plus. Lets say $10M each for arguments sake, would that not now be adding $9.1M for each player to the cap that wasn't there the year before? so $18.2M more cap than this year?.

right now we have $13M with willy to sign lets say he gets $6.5 (I don't want to argue about nylander being overpaid at that price) that means $6.5 is left and lets use that, couple that with Gardiner and hainsey not resigning that's $7M so we would be at $13.5. Then there are 5 other RFA's next offseason lets call them $1M each so $5 more million to the kitty. $18.5.

We get to Matthews and Marners $18.2 with 8 more roster players still needed to get to 23 man roster, how much do you think the cap will rise? we only have Nathan Horton's get out of jail card for this season and next. This doesn't even inluced RFA/UFA's that are on the marlies, and I think $10M for Matthews is going to be low too.

Could be way off here but its tighter than you think

Pretty sure Matthews and marner get bonuses which count for there cap hit. Could be wrong but think it is closer to 3 million for them both. As for 10 million for marner, a ten million dollar marner becomes a 4.5-6 million dollar weresnki/provorov/macovoy/slavin etc. If marner has a 90+ point season and asks for insane money than I would ship him out. He should be giving us a 2 million discount on his deal. The guy has always said he love this city and team and dreamed to play for us. His next contract should provide his words. I'm hoping for 6.5 willy, 7.5 mitch, and 11 both centers. 36 million is a lot on 4 guys but the cap should rise 5ish million next year and another 5 or so with Seattle coming soon.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

I don't think Calgary makes that deal.

Man is Hanifin ever overrated lol.

I wouldn't go near Nylander for Hanifin. Hanifin is one of the most sheltered defenders in the league seeing very easy QoC and over 63% of his zone starts in the offensive zone. He also plays almost exclusively on the left side.

He is still young and all that but at this point he is a #4/#5 playing the majority of the time on the 3rd pairing and receiving more sheltering each season he has played.

If you think Gardiner makes defensive mistakes wait until you see Hanifin lol.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Nylander IMO is not part of the core. move him or sit him the entire season. never wanna see him rock the blue and white again. just sign Marner + Matthews and lets move forward with Tavares + Matthews + Marner.
seems pretty clear Nylander doesn't want to be part of this team moving forward.

If he felt otherwise he would be signed by now. dont need a rusty Nylander this season for 8m.
guys a bum. he cant even drive his own line but yet he wants to be paid higher than pastrnak. what a joke he is.

 

[56 Years No Cup]

and Willie probably knows he'll be one of the one's to go once both M's are signed

Likely but there'd really nothing he can do about it given his RFA status. A "poison pill" contract ain't gonna happen.

Just being real.

 

[ACC1224]

Man is Hanifin ever overrated lol.

I wouldn't go near Nylander for Hanifin. Hanifin is one of the most sheltered defenders in the league seeing very easy QoC and over 63% of his zone starts in the offensive zone. He also plays almost exclusively on the left side.

He is still young and all that but at this point he is a #4/#5 playing the majority of the time on the 3rd pairing and receiving more sheltering each season he has played.

If you think Gardiner makes defensive mistakes wait until you see Hanifin lol.

Ok, but it's Calgary that needs to make that call not you.
I don't see them trading for a guy, signing him to a decent contract and then trading him for a winger that they don't really need.

 

[Nineteen67]

Nylander IMO is not part of the core. move him or sit him the entire season. never wanna see him rock the blue and white again. just sign Marner + Matthews and lets move forward with Tavares + Matthews + Marner.
seems pretty clear Nylander doesn't want to be part of this team moving forward.

If he felt otherwise he would be signed by now. dont need a rusty Nylander this season for 8m.
guys a bum. he cant even drive his own line but yet he wants to be paid higher than pastrnak. what a joke he is.

Clearly he has zero interested in being part of the team.....






s

 

[hotpaws]

Likely but there'd really nothing he can do about it given his RFA status. A "poison pill" contract ain't gonna happen.

Just being real.

yup there's no much he can do and that's why he has no desire to give a "team friendly" contract which would do nothing but up his trade value

 

[Walshy7]

Likely but there'd really nothing he can do about it given his RFA status. A "poison pill" contract ain't gonna happen.

Just being real.

dubas talked about getting the big 3 to buy in didn't he? I assumed he meant they'd need to take a bit less. So if dubas is offering Nylander a bit less to win but Nylander then sees at the 1st sign of cap trouble he is out the door why sign that discount? why help the team only to end up on the team friendly contract in some shithole like Arizona? get the full amount he thinks he is worth then if traded he knows he isn't being paid less to play for some team who will never contend

 

[Nineteen67]

dubas talked about getting the big 3 to buy in didn't he? I assumed he meant they'd need to take a bit less. So if dubas is offering Nylander a bit less to win but Nylander then sees at the 1st sign of cap trouble he is out the door why sign that discount? why help the team only to end up on the team friendly contract in some ****hole like Arizona? get the full amount he thinks he is worth then if traded he knows he isn't being paid less to play for some team who will never contend

I get what you are saying.....but Phoenix and Arizona ain’t no 4 asterisk hole

 

[Walshy7]

Pretty sure Matthews and marner get bonuses which count for there cap hit. Could be wrong but think it is closer to 3 million for them both. As for 10 million for marner, a ten million dollar marner becomes a 4.5-6 million dollar weresnki/provorov/macovoy/slavin etc. If marner has a 90+ point season and asks for insane money than I would ship him out. He should be giving us a 2 million discount on his deal. The guy has always said he love this city and team and dreamed to play for us. His next contract should provide his words. I'm hoping for 6.5 willy, 7.5 mitch, and 11 both centers. 36 million is a lot on 4 guys but the cap should rise 5ish million next year and another 5 or so with Seattle coming soon.

ah right I didn't allow for the bonuses that's a big one there. I knew it was making to much sense mathematically for it to be actually calculated right,

I don't know, I don't think Nylander should be forced to take a discount and if marner doesn't want to either I wouldn't blame him they only play for 20 years MAX.