Speculation: Bilingual Coaches and GM Candidate List Part 2

[salbutera]

People are unnecessarily worried about Roy. Gorton is going to be there. The GM will have say but do you think Gorton is going to let him make any moves based off emotion? I doubt it. The guy’s a winner everywhere he’s been, in multiple roles. There’s other great candidates, but I would welcome him with open arms.

Where was he a winner in hockey ops as a non player?

This is all a moot point because St Patrick for all intents has been unofficially blackballed by the owners for his schtick w Avs - quitting the way he did.

This is a pure PR stunt by Molson, nothing more, St Patrick isn’t a serious candidate, if he’s even being interviewed in reality

 

[eklund the clown]

6-playoffs in-9 years, including Cup final and conf final, in the toughest media market in the NHL and a non-elite player friendly market as well (for the rare elite UFAs and those unwilling to waive NMC/NTC)

compare that success level to other GMs hired in same period, Nill, Chevaldayoff, even Sakic.

Well to be honest they shouldn't have been in the playoffs the last 2 years(covid only playoff spots) and last years finals was a complete fluke.How about the Drouin trade mess?How about the KK debacle?How about the Dvorak fleecing? Price,Gallagher,Alsner,Savard ,Drouin contracts

 

[OnTheRun]

Well to be honest they shouldn't have been in the playoffs the last 2 years(covid only playoff spots) and last years finals was a complete fluke.How about the Drouin trade mess?How about the KK debacle?How about the Dvorak fleecing? Price,Gallagher,Alsner,Savard ,Drouin contracts

It doesn't matter. None of it.

The odds is Bergevin will get a 2nd look somewhere in the NHL. And if you ask why, then the answer is as simple as "It's the NHL and that's what they do".

 

[Doc5]

Who is the 3rd guy in on the interviews? Michael Lauduer?

Looked him up after reading that article, he was the previous owner of the Hamilton bulldogs (AHL), then he bought the OHL team and relocated it to Hamilton, he's part owner of the Montreal Canadien's and he's also a successful business man.

He probably brings the HR aspect into that group since he's the most business savvy.

Michael Andlauer - Hamilton Bulldogs

I wonder, when they hired Bergevin was it just Molson and Savard on the hiring committee?

 

[Doc5]

madden for scouting

quintal for GM, figure head for Jeff

Do you think he would leave Anaheim for a similar role here in Montreal? Only incentive would be if the pay is nearly double what he gets there.

Also, I doubt Anaheim gives him permission to join us this year, since he's already been working on the upcoming draft.

 

[BLONG7]

Looked him up after reading that article, he was the previous owner of the Hamilton bulldogs (AHL), then he bought the OHL team and relocated it to Hamilton, he's part owner of the Montreal Canadien's and he's also a successful business man.

He probably brings the HR aspect into that group since he's the most business savvy.

Michael Andlauer - Hamilton Bulldogs

I wonder, when they hired Bergevin was it just Molson and Savard on the hiring committee?

Thanks...........this process with him, Gorton and Gainey is a refreshing change from da old boys club kind of business.

 

[Vachon23]

Do you think he would leave Anaheim for a similar role here in Montreal? Only incentive would be if the pay is nearly double what he gets there.

Also, I doubt Anaheim gives him permission to join us this year, since he's already been working on the upcoming draft.

New management is coming in Anaheim, it's not Bob Murray anymore who was the GM since Madden is with the Ducks. A new challenge with a big pay check for a team that he follow when he was young and his father work for could be attracting for Madden, It can be only this summer after the draft if the Ducks doesn't give him the permission for this year.

 

[Treb]

I respect that he went back in there, did the daily grind, took the buses drives and made his classes as coach and GM. Not saying it was great success. But being a GM in Junior is essentialy take your chances for three years, then you go young and start over. It's a neverending circle and you simply cannot keep your players for long. It's different in the NHL where you can really make a difference and keep your core players for ten years and more and really build something. I believe Roy would make much more noise as a GM in the NHL than he did in junior. Plus for people that are so scared of him and his outbursts, other than his first few years, he has been rather a reserved coach and GM in the Q.

And he failed several of these cycles now. At some point, you have to put the blame on him for consistently being unable to build anything but a regular season team.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

How about the Drouin trade mess?How about the KK debacle?How about the Dvorak fleecing? Price,Gallagher,Alsner,Savard ,Drouin contracts

Other than Alzner, none of them were that bad at the time.
Most GMs would've done the Drouin for Sergachev trade. That was an excellent trade value-wise when it was made.
A team offersheated Kotkaniemi a dumb contract and Bergevin decided not to match.
A late first and a 2nd for Dvorak is not fleecing. The habs could trade Dvorak within the next few years, and get back a similar return. Probably a better first-round pick than the one they gave up.
Price and Gallagher are overpaid, but every team in the league has overpaid players. Also before his current deal, Bergevin signed Gallagher to an absolute steal of a contract at 6 years x 3.75 M
Savard at 3.5 M is not horrible. After a terrible start to the season, he's been much better.

You listed some bad, but here are some great moves he's done:
Picking up Byron from waivers, acquiring Tatar+Suzuki+Norlinder for Pacioretty, Danault+Romanov for Fleishmann+Weise, Petry for a 2nd and a 5th, etc.

Overall Bergevin has done a decent job at trades/signings.

The issues with Bergevin were elsewhere.

 

[salbutera]

Well to be honest they shouldn't have been in the playoffs the last 2 years(covid only playoff spots) and last years finals was a complete fluke.How about the Drouin trade mess?How about the KK debacle?How about the Dvorak fleecing? Price,Gallagher,Alsner,Savard ,Drouin contracts

I take it the history books show Habs did not compete in the 2021 Cup finals or will there be an asterisk?

Your position is clouded by dislike of MB. Take a look at the Nill, Chevaldayoff and Sakic moves during the same time period and compare playoff success of all 3, despite 2-of them operating in player friendly markets allowing for acquiring players willing to waive trade clauses (Spezza) or signing team friendly deals due to low taxation

 

[WeThreeKings]

Other than Alzner, none of them were that bad at the time.
Most GMs would've done the Drouin for Sergachev trade. That was an excellent trade value-wise when it was made.
A team offersheated Kotkaniemi a dumb contract and Bergevin decided not to match.
A late first and a 2nd for Dvorak is not fleecing. The habs could trade Dvorak within the next few years, and get back a similar return. Probably a better first-round pick than the one they gave up.
Price and Gallagher are overpaid, but every team in the league has overpaid players. Also before his current deal, Bergevin signed Gallagher to an absolute steal of a contract at 6 years x 3.75 M
Savard at 3.5 M is not horrible. After a terrible start to the season, he's been much better.

You listed some bad, but here are some great moves he's done:
Picking up Byron from waivers, acquiring Tatar+Suzuki+Norlinder for Pacioretty, Danault+Romanov for Fleishmann+Weise, Petry for a 2nd and a 5th, etc.

Overall Bergevin has done a decent job at trades/signings.

The issues with Bergevin were elsewhere.

1. Sergachev for Drouin was bad at the time, don't forget we almost gave a high 2nd to Tampa Bay as well. We gave up a top end defense prospect, picked in the top 10, for a guy who quit on Tampa multiple times and they were looking to move to comply with the expansion draft.
2. The KK offersheet was a direct result of multiple Bergevin f***-ups: the initial Aho offersheet which had 0 chance of working, the terrible job they did in communicating and developing KK and ultimately scratching him for no reason in the cup finals, doing a bad job of getting the relationship in a good place so a contract could have been signed before Carolina decided to do it.
3. No NHL team was giving up a 1st for Dvorak, let alone a 1st and a 2nd for him. You can read Armstrong's comments after the deal, saying how they needed some luck and they were holding out for a 1st round pick. The only saving grace is Bergevin had some foresight to put conditions on the 1st and that we have been so BAD that we know we'll keep the higher pick, but coming out of that deal it looked like we were giving a pick in the teens and a high future 2nd for Dvorak, who's a 3rd line center.
4. Gallagher and Price contracts were obvious poison pills. Many people here had the foresight to not do that but Bergevin didn't.

Bergevin sucked at doing anything but making moves when he was forced to sell since the teams he assembled were complete ass. All of his best trades were sell-off moves and it's too bad he never committed to a rebuild - not that it would have mattered since his approach to development was no approach at all.

 

[sampollock]

1. Sergachev for Drouin was bad at the time, don't forget we almost gave a high 2nd to Tampa Bay as well. We gave up a top end defense prospect, picked in the top 10, for a guy who quit on Tampa multiple times and they were looking to move to comply with the expansion draft.
2. The KK offersheet was a direct result of multiple Bergevin f***-ups: the initial Aho offersheet which had 0 chance of working, the terrible job they did in communicating and developing KK and ultimately scratching him for no reason in the cup finals, doing a bad job of getting the relationship in a good place so a contract could have been signed before Carolina decided to do it.
3. No NHL team was giving up a 1st for Dvorak, let alone a 1st and a 2nd for him. You can read Armstrong's comments after the deal, saying how they needed some luck and they were holding out for a 1st round pick. The only saving grace is Bergevin had some foresight to put conditions on the 1st and that we have been so BAD that we know we'll keep the higher pick, but coming out of that deal it looked like we were giving a pick in the teens and a high future 2nd for Dvorak, who's a 3rd line center.
4. Gallagher and Price contracts were obvious poison pills. Many people here had the foresight to not do that but Bergevin didn't.

Bergevin sucked at doing anything but making moves when he was forced to sell since the teams he assembled were complete ass. All of his best trades were sell-off moves and it's too bad he never committed to a rebuild - not that it would have mattered since his approach to development was no approach at all.

that is why Jeff has a HUGE mess to clean up

 

[Miller Time]

I take it the history books show Habs did not compete in the 2021 Cup finals or will there be an asterisk?

Your Jude ferment is clouded by dislike of MB. Take a look at the Nill, Chevaldayoff and Sakic moves during the same time period and compare playoff success of all 3, despite 2-of then operating in player friendly markets

The excuse mill is back in full operation I see...

You might want to revisit the W-L records of the past few years of the GMs you are comparing MB to... add him & take a wild guess which team is in dead last in winning % since 2019... or 2018... or '17...

MB was terrible at building competitive NHL rosters, despite cap spending and market appeal advantages. Numbers speak for themselves.

 

[salbutera]

The excuse mill is back in full operation I see...

You might want to revisit the W-L records of the past few years of the GMs you are comparing MB to... add him & take a wild guess which team is in dead last in winning % since 2019... or 2018... or '17...

MB was terrible at building competitive NHL rosters, despite cap spending and market appeal advantages. Numbers speak for themselves.

Never stated Mb was great but context (like you say) is important. MBs failings were all self inflicted, putrid amateur drafting & development - since Mtl does not play on a level playing field in terms of pro player acquisition (elite UFA signing capability + willingness to waive NTC/NMc) with any of the major US urban markets that failing is magnified 10X

No NHL market come close to the level of difficulty as Mtl when combining media / fan pressure + player acquisition roadblocks which is what NHL owners will look at.

As I’ve stated before just as Gainey didn’t go from being a genius in Dallas to an idiot in Mtl because he couldn’t acquire game changers - NHL owners will know this well.

 

[Miller Time]

Never stated Mb was great but context (like you say) is important. MBs failings were all self inflicted, putrid amateur drafting & development - since Mtl does not play on a level playing field in terms of pro player acquisition (elite UFA signing capability + willingness to waive NTC/NMc) with any of the major US urban markets that failing is magnified 10X

No NHL market come close to the level of difficulty as Mtl when combining media / fan pressure + player acquisition roadblocks which is what NHL owners will look at.

As I’ve stated before just as Gainey didn’t go from being a genius in Dallas to an idiot in Mtl because he couldn’t acquire game changers - NHL owners will know this well.

You exaggerate the challenges of the market and understate the advantages.

Gainey had very little trouble signing Ufas... in Dallas he had the huge edge of no cap and working from a top of the league budget, yet his Ufa record there was hardly more impressive than in Montreal working with a hard cap and many more teams with similar spending to compete with.

Absolutely agree that MBs failures were fully self inflicted. He inherited a much better roster situation than Gainey, and managed to completely blow it up, leaving several worst ever (or near) franchise accomplishments in his wake. The market had zero to do with his inept management (aside from a terrible owner that enabled him and let his tenure extend far longer than it should have, or would have in any other major market with intense fan/media engagement).

 

[CHwest]

Other than Alzner, none of them were that bad at the time.
Most GMs would've done the Drouin for Sergachev trade. That was an excellent trade value-wise when it was made.
A team offersheated Kotkaniemi a dumb contract and Bergevin decided not to match.
A late first and a 2nd for Dvorak is not fleecing. The habs could trade Dvorak within the next few years, and get back a similar return. Probably a better first-round pick than the one they gave up.
Price and Gallagher are overpaid, but every team in the league has overpaid players. Also before his current deal, Bergevin signed Gallagher to an absolute steal of a contract at 6 years x 3.75 M
Savard at 3.5 M is not horrible. After a terrible start to the season, he's been much better.

You listed some bad, but here are some great moves he's done:
Picking up Byron from waivers, acquiring Tatar+Suzuki+Norlinder for Pacioretty, Danault+Romanov for Fleishmann+Weise, Petry for a 2nd and a 5th, etc.

Overall Bergevin has done a decent job at trades/signings.

The issues with Bergevin were elsewhere.

I'd bet money there is not another GM that would have made that trade.

 

[vokiel]

I'd bet money there is not another GM that would have made that trade.

All GMs working in Montreal would have made that trade

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

1. Sergachev for Drouin was bad at the time, don't forget we almost gave a high 2nd to Tampa Bay as well. We gave up a top end defense prospect, picked in the top 10, for a guy who quit on Tampa multiple times and they were looking to move to comply with the expansion draft.

We gave up an unproven top-end defenseman prospect picked in the top 10 for a potential elite forward picked 3rd overall who had already proven a lot in the nhl. If Drouin hadn't asked for a trade, there is no chance he would have been available.
If last offseason, you had to choose between Suzuki or Bouchard/Clarke, who would you pick?
Both Drouin and Suzuki were coming off dominant playoffs and a 60 pt pace season at 21 years old and would've held a similar kind of value.
Similar to Sergachev, both Bouchard and Clarke are offensive defensemen prospects and were picked top 10.

2. The KK offersheet was a direct result of multiple Bergevin f***-ups: the initial Aho offersheet which had 0 chance of working, the terrible job they did in communicating and developing KK and ultimately scratching him for no reason in the cup finals, doing a bad job of getting the relationship in a good place so a contract could have been signed before Carolina decided to do it.

If we include the Aho offersheet incident, then yes the KK debacle was a failure by Bergevin. If not for that, carolina would have never offered KK a contract, and we would have re-signed him at a reasonable cap hit.

3. No NHL team was giving up a 1st for Dvorak, let alone a 1st and a 2nd for him. You can read Armstrong's comments after the deal, saying how they needed some luck and they were holding out for a 1st round pick. The only saving grace is Bergevin had some foresight to put conditions on the 1st and that we have been so BAD that we know we'll keep the higher pick, but coming out of that deal it looked like we were giving a pick in the teens and a high future 2nd for Dvorak, who's a 3rd line center.

Teams don't like trading 1st round picks during the offseason. Dvorak would definitely be able to return a 1st round pick at the trade deadline.

4. Gallagher and Price contracts were obvious poison pills. Many people here had the foresight to not do that but Bergevin didn't.

Re-signing Price was definitely the correct decision. You don't let go of the best goalie in the world, who was also in his prime at that time, just because his next contract would end up becoming bad down the road.

Gallagher sure, I could see an argument for letting him go. However, there were also reasons to re-sign him. He's a leader on the team, the heart, and soul, good top 6 forward, etc. Even if his production were to drop down the road, he would still bring a lot to the team.

Re-signing those 2 is not a problem. The issue is that he seems to have given a blank cheque for both of these players. He got too attached to these players, and it seems like he didn't do much contract negotiations in their cases. That's one of Bergevin's issues: he's too loyal and attached to people.

 

[CHwest]

We gave up an unproven top-end defenseman prospect picked in the top 10 for a potential elite forward picked 3rd overall who had already proven a lot in the nhl. If Drouin hadn't asked for a trade, there is no chance he would have been available.
If last offseason, you had to choose between Suzuki or Bouchard/Clarke, who would you pick?
Both Drouin and Suzuki were coming off dominant playoffs and a 60 pt pace season at 21 years old and would've held a similar kind of value.
Similar to Sergachev, both Bouchard and Clarke are offensive defensemen prospects and were picked top 10.



If we include the Aho offersheet incident, then yes the KK debacle was a failure by Bergevin. If not for that, carolina would have never offered KK a contract, and we would have re-signed him at a reasonable cap hit.



Teams don't like trading 1st round picks during the offseason. Dvorak would definitely be able to return a 1st round pick at the trade deadline.



Re-signing Price was definitely the correct decision. You don't let go of the best goalie in the world, who was also in his prime at that time, just because his next contract would end up becoming bad down the road.

Gallagher sure, I could see an argument for letting him go. However, there were also reasons to re-sign him. He's a leader on the team, the heart, and soul, good top 6 forward, etc. Even if his production were to drop down the road, he would still bring a lot to the team.

Re-signing those 2 is not a problem. The issue is that he seems to have given a blank cheque for both of these players. He got too attached to these players, and it seems like he didn't do much contract negotiations in their cases. That's one of Bergevin's issues: he's too loyal and attached to people.

Tampa would have lost Drudru in the expansion draft. Bargain bin was an answer to prayer. He got suckered big time.

 

[eklund the clown]

Sometimes on here you just have to shake your head.Kind of why i like this board though.Everyone has an opinion.Just hard to figure out what some people are watching that i don't see.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Tampa would have lost Drudru in the expansion draft. Bargain bin was an answer to prayer. He got suckered big time.

They would have protected drouin if they had not traded him. Thats not even up for discussion.

 

[peate]

Sometimes on here you just have to shake your head.Kind of why i like this board though.Everyone has an opinion.Just hard to figure out what some people are watching that i don't see.

It's more a question of what they don't see or refuse to.

 

[Belial]

It's more a question of what they don't see or refuse to.

Goes both ways all the time though.

Some see just the bad and rarely acknowledge any good.

And actually, that's the real problem IMO, cuz I don't see a lot of posters who are completely blinded by the good calls without being able to see the bad.

The whole point is that if people could be able to pour some water into their strong wine on both sides we could probably argue a lot less.

But what's the point in having a forum dedicated to hockey if you can't argue 24/7 at the end of the day?

 

[River Meadow]

Who is in the lead/running, like top 3? Do we know?

Roy/Darche/Emilie Castonguay?

 

[Runner77]

Never stated Mb was great but context (like you say) is important. MBs failings were all self inflicted, putrid amateur drafting & development - since Mtl does not play on a level playing field in terms of pro player acquisition (elite UFA signing capability + willingness to waive NTC/NMc) with any of the major US urban markets that failing is magnified 10X

No NHL market come close to the level of difficulty as Mtl when combining media / fan pressure + player acquisition roadblocks which is what NHL owners will look at.

As I’ve stated before just as Gainey didn’t go from being a genius in Dallas to an idiot in Mtl because he couldn’t acquire game changers - NHL owners will know this well.

Would you agree that the Expos faced similar shortcomings in terms of market appeal and perhaps worse? And yet, they found a way, their focus on drafting and development allowed them to field talent they could have likely never acquired on the open market.

Gorton can apply the same recipe but he needs his management people on board pronto and Molson money to poach the ones on expiring contracts.

I’m at the point that I don’t care as much who they name as GM since it will be a collaborative effort and Gorton is there to help avert a disaster.

Just get the best head of scouting guy money can buy — that’s where this team’s bread and butter is going to come from.