Bettman says no expansion or relocation; why were Conferences made unequal?

[MoreOrr]

Considering the top 8 teams in the NHL right now are from the West, I doubt that will be a problem.

Yea, I was looking at that post he made, seriously didn't know what to say to it. MOD

 

[MoreOrr]

A link taken from a thread on the Main Board:

NHL Atlas: A Primer on League Alignment, or “Why Are All the Cartographers Weeping?”
http://icenationuk.com/2013/11/22/n...ent-or-why-are-all-the-cartographers-weeping/

 

[kingdok]

he's pretty clear about relocations but vague about expansions.

"We get expressions of interest all the time and those are informal conversations that we have, but in terms of a formal bid process I'm not focused on doing anything like that right now,"

not focused right now'' doesn't mean they're no thinking about it.

 

[cujoflutie]

Maybe what they should have done was a hybrid of the two ideas;

just have 4 divisions and no conferences (or 4 conferences and no divisions), top 3 in each conference make it with 4 wild card. So if it worked out that way that one or two divisions were stacked, they could take all the playoff spots.


As people are pointing out, the NHL did it this way to have all the teams playing in the eastern time zone in the eastern conference.

 

[Hoser]

Who cares... the one team and their fanbase in the east who doesn't make the playoffs in place of the undeserving team in the west who does

Red herring.


'98-'99: Oilers had 78 points and made the playoffs. Panthers had 78 too, and didn't.
'00-'01: Coyotes had 90 points, didn't make the playoffs. Hurricanes only had 88, and they did.
'01-'02: Oilers had 92 points, didn't make the playoffs. Canadiens had 87, and did make the playoffs. The Hurricanes, Southeast Division 'champions', only had 91 points. If the Oilers had been in the Southeast Division they would have been division champs and would have been 'gifted' the third seed in the east! Instead they were 9th in the west and got nothing!
'05-'06: Canucks and Lightning both had 92 points. Lightning made the playoffs, Canucks didn't.
'06-'07: Avalanche had 95 points, didn't make the playoffs. They would have been 6th seed in the east.
'07-'08: Hurricanes had 92 points, didn't make it. Predators only had 91 and were 8th in the west.
'08-'09: Panthers had 93 points, didn't make it. Would have been 6th in the west.
'09-'10: Blues and Flames had 90 points. Had they been in the east they would have been 7th and 8th seeds, beating out the 88-point Flyers and Canadiens.
'10-'11: 10th seeded Flames had 94 points. The 8th seed in the east, the Rangers, had 93.
'11-'12: Southeast division champion Florida Panthers had 94. If they were in the west they wouldn't even have made the playoffs at all, let alone been third seed.


Where was your outrage at the inequities of the 'old' alignment?

 

[MoreOrr]

Just adding in this link from yesterday, December 10th:

Gary Bettman says no formal NHL expansion plans
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/gary-bettman-says-no-formal-nhl-expansion-plans-1.2459022

 

[gstommylee]

Expansion is coming they aren't gonna say publicly until its ready to be made public. My feeling is they are gonna hold on any public word on yes there will be expansion in such and such cities until Seattle is ready. If seattle was ready right this minute Bettman's tune would be much different.

 

[patnyrnyg]

Thanks for all the responses, I learned stuff.

If you had to guess, what year might we see NHL expansion or relocation? 2015?

As soon as a few of the more influential and powerful owners decide they want to colllect some expansion/relocation fees.

 

[patnyrnyg]

Maybe what they should have done was a hybrid of the two ideas;

just have 4 divisions and no conferences (or 4 conferences and no divisions), top 3 in each conference make it with 4 wild card. So if it worked out that way that one or two divisions were stacked, they could take all the playoff spots.


As people are pointing out, the NHL did it this way to have all the teams playing in the eastern time zone in the eastern conference.

Yup, and if Quebec City gets a team or Toronto gets a 2nd team (haven't followed this lately, so if this idea is completely dead then excuse the example) it will either be relocated eastern teams or someone in the east will relocate west to coincide with the expansion to those cities. All comes down to the fees. I believe expansion fees are significantly higher than relocation fees? Well, in that case, a potential owner is more likely to cough up the expansion fee for a city like Quebec or Toronto than Seattle or another Western city.

As a side, does Saskatchewan or the Maritimes have a city big enough to support a team?

 

[gstommylee]

Yup, and if Quebec City gets a team or Toronto gets a 2nd team (haven't followed this lately, so if this idea is completely dead then excuse the example) it will either be relocated eastern teams or someone in the east will relocate west to coincide with the expansion to those cities. All comes down to the fees. I believe expansion fees are significantly higher than relocation fees? Well, in that case, a potential owner is more likely to cough up the expansion fee for a city like Quebec or Toronto than Seattle or another Western city.

As a side, does Saskatchewan or the Maritimes have a city big enough to support a team?

No way NHL expands and leave out seattle.

 

[bigplay41*]

With great success in California why wouldn't the NHL look to out another team in the bay area? San Francisco would be cool

 

[tsanuri]

With great success in California why wouldn't the NHL look to out another team in the bay area? San Francisco would be cool

Where it could support it and probably do good the league is better off moving into the northwest vs a second team in the bay. Either Portland or Seattle are much better choices just because it would increase the footprint for further TV negotiations.
But you also have the current issues in the bay with the A's and Giants which would very much sour another team going into the same market as San Jose.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Where it could support it and probably do good the league is better off moving into the northwest vs a second team in the bay. Either Portland or Seattle are much better choices just because it would increase the footprint for further TV negotiations.
But you also have the current issues in the bay with the A's and Giants which would very much sour another team going into the same market as San Jose.

San Jose doesn't mind having another team on the west coast but I think SF might be a little too close. I think they would be fine with Sacramento getting a franchise even though it infringes slightly on their territory. However, they don't draw a whole hell of a lot from the Sacramento area to where they would deny a team going there but it would be beneficial for them in terms of having a local rival and less travel.

 

[Mike Martin]

Yup, and if Quebec City gets a team or Toronto gets a 2nd team (haven't followed this lately, so if this idea is completely dead then excuse the example) it will either be relocated eastern teams or someone in the east will relocate west to coincide with the expansion to those cities. All comes down to the fees. I believe expansion fees are significantly higher than relocation fees? Well, in that case, a potential owner is more likely to cough up the expansion fee for a city like Quebec or Toronto than Seattle or another Western city.

As a side, does Saskatchewan or the Maritimes have a city big enough to support a team?

Toronto doesn't need a second team, the Leafs are enough for anyone. The province of Ontario already has Ottawa if you want another team to cheer for.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

With great success in California why wouldn't the NHL look to out another team in the bay area? San Francisco would be cool

San Jose has been a great success story, but adding a second team would absolutely oversaturate the market.

And that's not knocking the Bay Area, mind you! Put a second NHL team in Chicago and you'd oversaturate the market, too.

 

[drw02]

San Jose doesn't mind having another team on the west coast but I think SF might be a little too close. I think they would be fine with Sacramento getting a franchise even though it infringes slightly on their territory. However, they don't draw a whole hell of a lot from the Sacramento area to where they would deny a team going there but it would be beneficial for them in terms of having a local rival and less travel.

lol Sacramento? Seattle is a much larger city and the California hockey market is totally saturated. Sacramento probably wouldn't even make the top 15 of consideration. They can't even get people to Sacramento Kings games...hockey would be a disaster there.

 

[patnyrnyg]

No way NHL expands and leave out seattle.

Oh, there will be a team in Seattle. What I meant, sorry if it wasnt clear, is a situation where Toronto and Quebec get expansion franchises and Seattle and another west city, i.e. Portland, KC get relocations all at the same time.

 

[patnyrnyg]

Toronto doesn't need a second team, the Leafs are enough for anyone. The province of Ontario already has Ottawa if you want another team to cheer for.

Ottawa and Toronto are what, 4 hours apart? Is there a larger hockey market than the Toronto metropolitan area? They could easily and very successfully support a 2nd franchise. Yes, there would be hurdles to leap to keep the Leafs happy and end their monopoly of the area. I remember talk of a new NHL arena in Markham. I have no idea if that is in discussion, or if it is dead. Was just throwing it out there.

 

[gstommylee]

Oh, there will be a team in Seattle. What I meant, sorry if it wasnt clear, is a situation where Toronto and Quebec get expansion franchises and Seattle and another west city, i.e. Portland, KC get relocations all at the same time.

I don't think that is going to happen.

 

[knorthern knight]

Ottawa and Toronto are what, 4 hours apart? Is there a larger hockey market than the Toronto metropolitan area? They could easily and very successfully support a 2nd franchise. Yes, there would be hurdles to leap to keep the Leafs happy and end their monopoly of the area. I remember talk of a new NHL arena in Markham. I have no idea if that is in discussion, or if it is dead. Was just throwing it out there.

The Markham arena is effectively dead. Discussion is still open for another 6 months to find enough private money to pay 100% of the arena's construction costs. But chances look non-existant.

 

[Wingsfan2965*]

Just adding in this link from yesterday, December 10th:

Gary Bettman says no formal NHL expansion plans
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/gary-bettman-says-no-formal-nhl-expansion-plans-1.2459022

The fact that Bettman talked extensively about it at all is Bettmanese for "Yeah, it's most likely happening."

The NHL just can't confirm it because if they were to do that and then plans fell through they'd look amateur.

 

[gstommylee]

The fact that Bettman talked extensively about it at all is Bettmanese for "Yeah, it's most likely happening."

The NHL just can't confirm it because if they were to do that and then plans fell through they'd look amateur.

agreed and rumors about expansion is happening summer/fall of 2014 that's about when we'll know if Seattle is gonna give the final approval of the sodo arena or not.

 

[Tackla]

The conferences were made unequal to satisfy the teams in the Eastern timezone. There is no plan to add Western Conference teams. Seattle and Portland are not locks at all like some are making them out to be. In fact I can't see Portland with an NHL team. The other candidates are likely in the Eastern timezone. So, conferences may never be balanced but that's not a priority.

 

[tsanuri]

The conferences were made unequal to satisfy the teams in the Eastern timezone. There is no plan to add Western Conference teams. Seattle and Portland are not locks at all like some are making them out to be. In fact I can't see Portland with an NHL team. The other candidates are likely in the Eastern timezone. So, conferences may never be balanced but that's not a priority.

Not sure why you don't see Portland with a team. Paul Allen was in the runing for the Yotes if things fell through in Phoenix. And owns the Trailblazers as well as the Rose Garden where they play. He is exactly what the league is looking for as far as stable ownership.

 

[BigZ65]

I wonder what the expansion fees would be. Could we see an expansion where the fees are not the same? For discussion sake, let's say that a franchise is granted to a group in Southern Ontario and one in Seattle. How on earth could you value those franchises the same?