Better goal scorer- lemieux vs bossy

Discussion in 'Polls - (hockey-related only)' started by drs151, Nov 9, 2019.

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Better goal scorer- lemieux vs bossy

  1. Lemieux

    79.7%
  2. Bossy

    18.6%
  3. To close to call

    1.7%
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  1. biotk

    biotk Registered User

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    The reason Bossy has higher career goals per game is because Lemieux played longer. Lemieux was ahead (usually well ahead) of Bossy in career goals per game until Lemieux's final 11 career games (during which time he scored only once) when he was 40.

    At 30 years old Bossy had 573 goals in 752 games (0.762 goals per game). He didn't play a game past 30.

    At 30 years old Mario had 563 goals in 669 games (0.842 goals per game).
    From 31 to 35 Mario only played 119 games, but scored 85 goals (0.714)
    From 36 to 40 he only scored 42 goals in 127 games (0.331)
     
    Jedub, Hockey Outsider and Hynh like this.
  2. Devil Dancer

    Devil Dancer Registered User

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    Come on, I hate Lemieux and the Pens, but he wins this easily.
     
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  3. Kevin8se7en

    Kevin8se7en OTT/EDM/PHI

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    I took the top 100 adjusted goal scorers (career), and sorted it by goals per game.

    PlayerGamesAdj. GoalsAdj. GpG
    Howie Morenz5505010.911
    Nels Stewart6505870.903
    Bill Cook4754220.888
    Aurele Joliat6554890.747
    *Alex Ovechkin11028020.728
    Mario Lemieux9156160.673
    Maurice Richard9786530.668
    Pavel Bure7024630.660
    *Steven Stamkos7614840.636
    Mike Bossy7524610.613
    Bobby Hull10636440.606
    Brett Hull12697380.582
    *Ilya Kovalchuk8974970.554
    *Sidney Crosby9605210.543
    Bernie Geoffrion8834640.525
    Gordie Howe17679250.523
    Phil Esposito12826710.523
    *Evgeni Malkin8584450.519
    Jean Beliveau11255750.511
    *Teemu Selanne14517410.511
    Wayne Gretzky14877580.510
    Peter Bondra10815490.508
    Keith Tkachuk12015840.486
    Jaromir Jagr17338410.485
    Alexander Mogilny9904800.485
    *Patrick Kane9194420.481
    Pat LaFontaine8654140.479
    Dany Heatley8694150.478
    Rick Nash10604960.468
    Joe Sakic13786430.467
    Frank Mahovlich11815500.466
    John LeClair9674470.462
    Luc Robitaille14316520.456
    Jarome Iginla15547060.454
    Marian Hossa13095940.454
    Marcel Dionne13486100.453
    Paul Kariya9894450.450
    Joe Nieuwendyk12575600.446
    Mats Sundin13465990.445
    *Marian Gaborik10354600.444
    *Jeff Carter9974410.442
    *Zach Parise9634250.441
    Brendan Shanahan15246720.441
    Ted Lindsay10684650.435
    Theoren Fleury10844680.432
    *Corey Perry9984300.431
    Dino Ciccarelli12325300.430
    Guy Lafleur11264800.426
    Steve Yzerman15146440.425
    Mike Gartner*14326090.425
    *Joe Pavelski9804160.424
    *Phil Kessel10134200.415
    *Eric Staal11914930.414
    Milan Hejduk10204180.410
    Thomas Vanek10294200.408
    Sergei Fedorov12485080.407
    Michel Goulet10894430.407
    Joe Mullen10624320.407
    Jari Kurri12515030.402
    Pierre Turgeon12945170.400
    Daniel Alfredsson12464920.395
    Martin St. Louis11344450.392
    Vincent Lecavalier12124710.389
    Markus Naslund11174340.389
    Stan Mikita13965410.388
    Mike Modano14995780.386
    Owen Nolan12004580.382
    *Patrick Marleau16716320.378
    Tony Amonte11744430.377
    Jeremy Roenick13635140.377
    Patrik Elias12404640.374
    Bernie Nicholls11274170.370
    Bill Guerin12634670.370
    Dave Andreychuk16396050.369
    Glenn Anderson11294150.368
    Norm Ullman14105170.367
    Jason Arnott12444560.367
    Dale Hawerchuk11884350.366
    Rick Tocchet11444170.365
    Gilbert Perreault11914340.364
    John Bucyk15405570.362
    Jean Ratelle12804580.358
    Mark Messier17566280.358
    Mark Recchi16525900.357
    Brian Bellows11884230.356
    Alex Kovalev13164680.356
    Gary Roberts12244260.348
    Pat Verbeek14244870.342
    Daniel Sedin13064420.338
    Bryan Trottier12794280.335
    Ryan Smyth12704200.331
    Ray Whitney13304350.327
    Alex Delvecchio15505010.323
    Rod Brind'Amour14844630.312
    Dean Prentice13784240.308
    Vincent Damphousse13784220.306
    Ron Francis17315180.299
    Shane Doan15404550.295
    *Joe Thornton15844560.288
    Doug Gilmour14744140.281
    Gretzky should probably be a bit higher (because of his peak), but I think this is a pretty decent list of who the best goal scorers are/were, with the exception of the guys born literally over 100 years ago (the top 4 particularly).
     
  4. Kreator

    Kreator Registered User

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    There is no one even in Mario*s realm on a break-aways.
     
  5. Sentinel

    Sentinel Registered User

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    I don't know if you noticed the absence of the word "assists" anywhere in the thread's title. It's literally not there.
     
  6. Sentinel

    Sentinel Registered User

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    Lemieux has the higher peak. Bossy -- everything else. Yes, Bossy was a better scorer than Lemieux.
     
  7. Sentinel

    Sentinel Registered User

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    Bossy was not a better goalscorer than Gretzky. He was a better scorer than Lemieux.

    And in your really bizarre analogy, it's Stamkos, with a couple of awesome goalscoring seasons, who is closer to Lemieux than Ovechkin. Bossy is actually closer to Ovechkin, with his phenomenal consistency.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2019
  8. Regal

    Regal Registered User

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    Good info, but I think this might be more useful if using the same number of seasons for everyone. Say, best 5 then best 10 or just best 7 or 8, just to get a better sense of each in their prime.
     
  9. Kevin8se7en

    Kevin8se7en OTT/EDM/PHI

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    Find me era adjusted single season stats and I'd do it. Not for the top 100, but maybe the top 20 + a few current guys. I've only been able to find era-adjusted career stats.
     
  10. Cursed Lemon

    Cursed Lemon Registered Bruiser

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    HF wiped the actual data, but this was some data mining I did comparing the best 10-year consecutive goal-scoring performances of the best goal scorers in modern history.

    [​IMG]
     
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  11. Regal

    Regal Registered User

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    Obviously adjusted stats can have their issues, but it's pretty impressive how Lemieux stands out from the pack here.
     
  12. thadd

    thadd Oil4Life

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    If I was born 10 years younger I'd actually know. A lot of older people tell me that Bossy was the more pure goal scorer to ever play the game. I'll go with Bossy.
     
  13. Hockey Outsider

    Hockey Outsider Registered User

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    Where are those numbers from? There's no way Morenz, Stewart, Cook and Joliat (as great as they were - and sadly forgotten by most modern fans) scored more (adjusted) goals per game than Ovechkin or Lemieux.
     
  14. Hockey Outsider

    Hockey Outsider Registered User

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    Here are the top 50 goal-scorers, based on seven year prime. The number represents average era-adjusted goals scored during their best seven years (not necessarily consecutive). The data is from 1927 to 2019.

    Link to method (and other similar tables) - Reference - VsX comprehensive summary (1927 to 2019)

    PlayerTOTAL
    Bobby Hull70.2
    Maurice Richard67.2
    Gordie Howe65.5
    Phil Esposito62.1
    Alex Ovechkin59.5
    Wayne Gretzky59
    Brett Hull56.3
    Mario Lemieux54.5
    Jean Beliveau54.4
    Charlie Conacher54.3
    Mike Bossy52.9
    Bill Cook52.7
    Steven Stamkos52.6
    Bernie Geoffrion51.2
    Frank Mahovlich50.8
    Nels Stewart50.7
    Jaromir Jagr50.4
    Pavel Bure50.3
    Stan Mikita50
    Roy Conacher49.6
    Ted Lindsay48.4
    Howie Morenz48.3
    Teemu Selanne48.3
    Guy Lafleur47.2
    Peter Bondra47.2
    Marcel Dionne47.2
    Steve Yzerman47
    Gordie Drillon46.9
    Norm Ullman46.7
    Ilya Kovalchuk46.6
    Jarome Iginla46.5
    Bryan Hextall46.3
    Marty Barry45.6
    Busher Jackson45.6
    Jari Kurri45.4
    John LeClair45.2
    Luc Robitaille44.7
    Sweeney Schriner44.3
    Andy Bathgate44.2
    Joe Sakic43.8
    Cecil Dillon43.6
    Keith Tkachuk43.4
    Camille Henry43.2
    Michel Goulet43.1
    John Bucyk42.8
    Sidney Crosby42.7
    Evgeni Malkin42.7
    Rick Martin42.6
    Brendan Shanahan42.5
    Dickie Moore42.5
    The numbers above are not adjusted for time missed, so Lemieux is lower than expected.
     
  15. ESH

    ESH Registered User

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    This is the most nonsensical thing I’ve seen today.

    “Bossy would’ve scored more if he was as good a player as Lemieux”
     
  16. ESH

    ESH Registered User

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    Did you pull these from hockey-reference? Because they actually adjusted games played too for these stats, so your numbers aren’t right.
     
  17. draft day

    draft day Registered User

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    LOL
    .71 GPG > .65 GPG :nod:
     
  18. Bouboumaster

    Bouboumaster Registered User

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  19. draft day

    draft day Registered User

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    Thing is ,what do people mean by better pure scorer.
    If you mean by the only thing he could do than yes.
    but do we penalize a player that is a better goal scorer just because he is also a much better hockey player.
    Lemieux was the best,greatest goal scorer in the history of the NHL. I'm not going to penalize him just because he was also one of the best playmakers on top of that.
     
  20. Fred Sheeran

    Fred Sheeran Registered User

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    The poll should read Lemieux 100%.
     
  21. wetcoast

    wetcoast Registered User

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    Best and greatest always seems like a distinction without a difference to me.
     
  22. authentic

    authentic Registered User

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    Well, I don't think he could've scored like 120 goals and 80 assists, but maybe 100 + 100 could've been possible in 1988-89.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2019
  23. authentic

    authentic Registered User

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    Greatest is career best is prime is how it's usually viewed I think. Like Gretzky undeniably had the best career in hockey but some think Lemieux and Orr in their primes were actually better. Ovechkin has a case for greatest due to the longevity of his goal scoring on top of his prime as well as the fact that he's now led the NHL in goals more than anyone in history, but it's tough to say he was better because Lemieux would easily hold that distinction if not for injuries as well as having the better peak in goal scoring even after adjusting for era.
     
  24. wetcoast

    wetcoast Registered User

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    Surprised to see how well Dionne does here.

    Marcel is criminally under rated.
     
  25. ScaredStreit

    ScaredStreit Registered User

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    Islanders fan voting Lemieux. Bossy was more consistent (only due to Lemieux's health), and might be the most consistent goal scorer out of the top 5ish goal scorers in history. He's also overshadowed by playing at the same time as Gretzky (costing him 3 goal scoring titles). With that said Lemieux was easily the better goal scorer (and I'd argue that goat).

    Bossy's in this weird situation where half the people overrate him as an all time goal scorer...then the other half underrate him.
     
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