Best Hart trophy race in recent memory?

[Goulet17]

It should be noted that Giroux has racked up the second assists this year which I don't deem as valuable and is a difference maker in a tight race.

MacKinnon 77 primary points
Hall 69 primary points
Giroux 67 primary points

MacKinnon had more primary points than games played. Did McDavid do that?

 

[Yackiberg8]

MacKinnon had more primary points than games played. Did McDavid do that?

No he didn't but he was close.

 

[Goulet17]

No he didn't but he was close.

Thanks, that is interesting.

 

[IronMarshal]

There is a strong case to be made for Taylor Hall for MVP. He is the best player on the Devils and has carried a lot of the offensive burden in leading the Devils back to the playoffs against the odds. He has outscored the next nearest Devil by 41 points (I think 41 is correct). This point total accounted for Hall’s eing involved in 38.3% of his team’s goals. A remarkable year.
Nathan McKinnon had a great year, similar to Hall’s, but not quite at that level scoring. He was involved in 38% of his team’s goals.
Connor McDavid led the league in scoring and was involved in an astounding 47.2% of his team’s goals. But his team did not make the playoffs.
Evgeni Malkin played on a stacked offensive team with Sidney Crosby and Phil Kessel among others and was involved in 36.3% of his team’s goals. It can be argued that Pittsburgh under achieved in the regular season.
Anze Kopitar had a great year and was involved in 38.8% of his team’s goals.
But the guy who should win the Hart Trophy (MVP) this year is Claude Giroux who was second in the league in scoring behind only McDavid was involved in 41% of his team’s goals. Led an arguably overachieving Flyers team back into the playoffs almost on his own back the last weeks of the season scoring 19 goals in 29 games and had a ten-game point streak (8 goals 11 assists). His team is the only team to lose ten straight during the season and come back to make the playoffs, thanks directly to his leadership. He is the #3 faceoff man in the league and kills penalties too. No one else has a resume that strong. Giroux deserves the Hart.

 

[Yackiberg8]

Thanks, that is interesting.

Not really sure what you're getting at tbh.

 

[Future GOAT]

1. McDavid
2. Giroux
3.Nate
4.Hall

Obviously not fair to punish G for playing all 82 games, Hall could have played game 82 as well. Also not fair to punish Mcdavid for having very little talent to play with. I'm going to pick Connor because there's not enough separating the other 4 players. His numbers offset his bad surrounding talent imo.

Agreed.

To quote some numbers I and a couple others supplied in the thread.

1st in ESP (18 ahead of 2nd Giroux)
1st in ESA (8 ahead of 2nd Giroux)
1st in ESG (3 ahead of 2nd Ovechkin)
1st in Points
1st in Primary Points
1st in Points Per Game
1st in scoring chances for
1st in high danger scoring chances for
1st in takeaways
+20 on a team with -33 goal differential

Best Hart argument of them all IMO.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

Maybe if he would have scored in any of the previous 9 games where he was invisible and his team went 3-5-1 they wouldn't have needed his super clutch 2nd period goal to get in on the last game of the season.

Uh they got in, thats all that matters. Maybe if Giroux played better during the flyers 10 game losing streak they would have gotten in earlier.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

Agreed.

To quote some numbers I and a couple others supplied in the thread.

1st in ESP (18 ahead of 2nd Giroux)
1st in ESA (8 ahead of 2nd Giroux)
1st in ESG (3 ahead of 2nd Ovechkin)
1st in Points
1st in Primary Points
1st in Points Per Game
1st in scoring chances for
1st in high danger scoring chances for
1st in takeaways
+20 on a team with -33 goal differential

Best Hart argument of them all IMO.

Thats an argument for the lindsay, not for Hart

 

[The Moose is Loose]

McDavid I think is the dark horse. He clearly separated himself from the others, and the 1 and only knock on him is that his team didnt make the playoffs.

I feel that the voters who don't care about the "making the playoffs aspect" that much will vote for him, and then the ones that do will split their votes between any combination Mackinnon, Hall, Giroux, Kucherov, and Malkin.

 

[The Moose is Loose]

There is a strong case to be made for Taylor Hall for MVP. He is the best player on the Devils and has carried a lot of the offensive burden in leading the Devils back to the playoffs against the odds. He has outscored the next nearest Devil by 41 points (I think 41 is correct). This point total accounted for Hall’s eing involved in 38.3% of his team’s goals. A remarkable year.
Nathan McKinnon had a great year, similar to Hall’s, but not quite at that level scoring. He was involved in 38% of his team’s goals.
Connor McDavid led the league in scoring and was involved in an astounding 47.2% of his team’s goals. But his team did not make the playoffs.
Evgeni Malkin played on a stacked offensive team with Sidney Crosby and Phil Kessel among others and was involved in 36.3% of his team’s goals. It can be argued that Pittsburgh under achieved in the regular season.
Anze Kopitar had a great year and was involved in 38.8% of his team’s goals.
But the guy who should win the Hart Trophy (MVP) this year is Claude Giroux who was second in the league in scoring behind only McDavid was involved in 41% of his team’s goals. Led an arguably overachieving Flyers team back into the playoffs almost on his own back the last weeks of the season scoring 19 goals in 29 games and had a ten-game point streak (8 goals 11 assists). His team is the only team to lose ten straight during the season and come back to make the playoffs, thanks directly to his leadership. He is the #3 faceoff man in the league and kills penalties too. No one else has a resume that strong. Giroux deserves the Hart.

Literally half the stuff you cited for Giroux doesn't amount for anything. The scoring streak, getting hot at the end, and his leadership (what a load of bs) are not considered when voting for the Hart Trophy.

 

[Future GOAT]

Thats an argument for the lindsay, not for Hart

Nope, it's most definitely an argument for both.

 

[AvsFan29]

McDavid I think is the dark horse. He clearly separated himself from the others, and the 1 and only knock on him is that his team didnt make the playoffs.

I feel that the voters who don't care about the "making the playoffs aspect" that much will vote for him, and then the ones that do will split their votes between any combination Mackinnon, Hall, Giroux, Kucherov, and Malkin.

McDavid doesn't crack the top 4. I haven't seen any analyst considering him in the top 3. The only talk I hear about McDavid for hart is on HF by oilers fans, who focused on him all year, because there was no other point to watch Edmonton. He'll win some Harts. Won't be this year.

 

[Panthera]

It was a good race throughout the season but by now it's pretty underwhelming; the only reason it's actually up for debate is Edmonton missing the playoffs. Otherwise the guy who won it comfortably last year and had an even better year (on a worse team) this season would be the no brainer winner, even with the great seasons some other guys had.

 

[Tonka]

If I were to vote, I would give it to Hall or MacKinnon...Mac might get the edge because of his point totals, but Hall carried a team who's next highest scorer is 52.

I want it to go to Hall.

 

[Tonka]

McDavid I think is the dark horse. He clearly separated himself from the others, and the 1 and only knock on him is that his team didnt make the playoffs.

I feel that the voters who don't care about the "making the playoffs aspect" that much will vote for him, and then the ones that do will split their votes between any combination Mackinnon, Hall, Giroux, Kucherov, and Malkin.

I don't see how McD separated himself from the others when MacK had nearly the same PPG. MacK has the edge over here. And yes, because, playoffs.

 

[IronMarshal]

Literally half the stuff you cited for Giroux doesn't amount for anything. The scoring streak, getting hot at the end, and his leadership (what a load of bs) are not considered when voting for the Hart Trophy.

Proof? You have given nothing but a baseless opinion. Leadership does matter where we are talking MVP, it always has. Making the playoffs matters.Scoring matters. Being heavily involved in scoring matters. Ice time matters. Possesion should matter. All of these things contribute to an MVP performance. Giroux checks all the boxes, and at a higher level than the rest. The scoring streak, getting hot at three end, WHEN THE PRESSURE WAS ON, does matter. He literally carried his team into the playoffs like a captain should. This is true leadership.

BTW the only load of bs here was your post.

 

[1865]

Agreed.

To quote some numbers I and a couple others supplied in the thread.

1st in ESP (18 ahead of 2nd Giroux)
1st in ESA (8 ahead of 2nd Giroux)
1st in ESG (3 ahead of 2nd Ovechkin)
1st in Points
1st in Primary Points
1st in Points Per Game
1st in scoring chances for
1st in high danger scoring chances for
1st in takeaways
+20 on a team with -33 goal differential

Best Hart argument of them all IMO.

1st in Pressure Free Nothing Games for Half the Season.

 

[1865]

If I were to vote, I would give it to Hall or MacKinnon...Mac might get the edge because of his point totals, but Hall carried a team who's next highest scorer is 52.

I want it to go to Hall.

On the other hand, everyone on Giroux's line produced at a ridiculous pace with him and a considerably lower (~50 point) pace without him. Check out Voracek's first half and Konecny's second half for example.

Should we punish him for improving his linemates?

 

[Tonka]

On the other hand, everyone on Giroux's line produced at a ridiculous pace with him and a considerably lower (~50 point) pace without him. Check out Voracek's first half and Konecny's second half for example.

Should we punish him for improving his linemates?

Well, I hope the voters are definitely smarter than I am when it comes to looking at who wins the MVP, and take these things into consideration.

 

[aufheben]

Any writer who chooses McDavid should have his credentials revoked.

The criteria is:

The Hart Memorial Trophy is an annual award given to the player judged to be the most valuable to his team.

McDavid did not change any outcome for his team. If we are going to suspend all logic and pick McDavid, then it can even be argued that the Oilers would have made the playoffs if he wasn't on the team.

All of the other suggestions make sense. Kopitar, Hall, MacKinnon, Giroux, etc. Even if we wanted to use the Lemieux model of a player winning when his team doesn't make the playoffs, McDavid's point total is not sufficient enough to make that argument.

Anyone who picks McDavid is a buffoon who toes the line to NHL marketing.

He contributed to more of his team's wins than any other player. This ongoing stance that the best player in the league isn't the most valuable to his team is so weird.

Would the Oilers really have been any worse with McDavid out of the lineup? "Valuable"

They would have been a lot worse, obviously.

 

[tucker3434]

He contributed to more of his team's wins than any other player. This ongoing stance that the best player in the league isn't the most valuable to his team is so weird.

They would have been a lot worse, obviously.

The writers interpret it as most valuable to the success of a team, not most valuable to a bottom 10 finish. McDavid will get his, just not this year. I’m not even sure he’ll finish top 5 given how crowded the field is. There are going to be writers voting for him, but they’ll have Hall/Giroux/Mack rounding out their top 4 in some order. The ones that consider team success a major factor might not include McDavid on their ballot at all. That’s going to torpedo his chances.

 

[aufheben]

The writers interpret it as most valuable to the success of a team, not most valuable to a bottom 10 finish. McDavid will get his, just not this year. I’m not even sure he’ll finish top 5 given how crowded the field is.

I know they do, I think it's flawed and arbitrary.

Wins have no value unless team makes the playoffs.

The goal of the regular season is to make playoffs -> The goal of the playoffs is to win championship -> The goal of the regular season is to win championship.

So, the only valuable wins out of the entire season belong to the lone champion team.

 

[Cubs2024WSChamps]

Read it first as the Bret Hart trophy.

Winner and right answer is- Bret Hart

 

[Goulet17]

Not really sure what you're getting at tbh.

You mean other than thanking you for posting the information and finding the information interesting?

 

[FlyingPhi]

McDavid doesn't crack the top 4. I haven't seen any analyst considering him in the top 3. The only talk I hear about McDavid for hart is on HF by oilers fans, who focused on him all year, because there was no other point to watch Edmonton. He'll win some Harts. Won't be this year.

Scott Cullen of TSN : https://www.tsn.ca/statistically-speaking-nhl-award-picks-1.1054327

There are surely going to be a lot of voters that believe McDavid isn’t worthy of the most valuable player award because his team was bad. While there is much time spent trying to parse the meaning of the “player judged most valuable to his team”, I can’t escape the notion that the best player is the one that provides the most value.

When McDavid is on the ice, the Oilers were very good; outshooting, out-chancing and outscoring (81 GF, 60 GA at 5-on-5) the opposition. Without him they were an unmitigated disaster, but how can a player possibly be held accountable for what his team does when he’s off the ice?

The idea that the most valuable player can’t come from a team out of the playoffs seems to be borne out of a history when the best player in the league didn’t miss the playoffs. When I was growing up, 16 of 21 teams made it and the best player in the league was never in danger of being hopelessly out of playoff contention. Now, with 15 of 31 teams missing, that’s a more conceivable – albeit rare – outcome, and while advanced stats continue to develop, we have enough information to make some reasonable estimates about individual player contribution. Manny from Corsica Hockey is working on a WAR model and I have my own WAR model, and while our models aren’t the same, there is something common to them – McDavid is head and shoulders above the rest of the league. He was the best player and, as an individual, provided the most value to his team. It’s not his fault that the rest of the team was lost without him.

MacKinnon had a fantastic season, busting out in his fifth NHL campaign, and would be a worthy winner if the playoff thing with McDavid is too big a hang-up. That MacKinnon holds the first runner-up spot despite missing eight games is a testament to how dominant he was.