Best Chance of Winning the Cup is...

[Patty Lee]

lol.

 

[Tak7]

There are more than two options: so the initial poll is a flawed one. For example, it'd be silly to move Kessel, yet keep Bernier. If you're going to bottom out, you might as well go for it.

....i think that's what the "etc" in option 2 after Kessel and Phaneuf's names was included for...

 

[bullocks]

These teams think they can beat Germany? What a boring game so far

 

[MuchoMacho]

Name one example of a team that got rid of players in their mid to late 20's to tank for a draft? Anyone?

It doesn't happen because hockey is a BUSINESS. A bunch of fans voting to tank for a couple years after it took 5-6 years to get the current assets in place is completely unrealistic. It will never happen in a million years. Not because MLSE is a terribly run organization, there's no owner in the world who would do it. Whether you like the core or not, tweaking and building and re-tooling is the ONLY option, aside from "standing pat" completely.

 

[Eb]

Name one example of a team that got rid of players in their mid to late 20's to tank for a draft? Anyone?

It doesn't happen because hockey is a BUSINESS. A bunch of fans voting to tank for a couple years after it took 5-6 years to get the current assets in place is completely unrealistic. It will never happen in a million years. Not because MLSE is a terribly run organization, there's no owner in the world who would do it. Whether you like the core or not, tweaking and building and re-tooling is the ONLY option, aside from "standing pat" completely.

This really is nail on the head for me in this thread. Summed up perfectly.

The time to tank, rebuild or whatever you want to call it was when Burke traded for Kessel, not now.

The ironic thing about this, is I am willing to wager a majority of people who chose option 2, was a fan of Burke and his tenure here. But their cynical nature changes their opinions.

 

[Menzinger]

Name one example of a team that got rid of players in their mid to late 20's to tank for a draft? Anyone?

It doesn't happen because hockey is a BUSINESS. A bunch of fans voting to tank for a couple years after it took 5-6 years to get the current assets in place is completely unrealistic. It will never happen in a million years. Not because MLSE is a terribly run organization, there's no owner in the world who would do it. Whether you like the core or not, tweaking and building and re-tooling is the ONLY option, aside from "standing pat" completely.

The one thing that seems to escape the minds of most people on HFboards in general. I say this as someone who wouldn't mind if the leafs picked up a some bottom five picks in the next couple drafts. These things just don't happen with young players.

 

[Byron Bitz]

Option 2 would be my choice. Trade for picks and top prospects and build through the draft. Hey, it's the only thing the Leafs haven't tried, so it's likely the way we should go (but won't).

The leafs have tried this back in 2008 we gutted our roster, started a rebuild and tanked all the way down to draft schenn, that was when our rebuild started. Tanking doesn't always work out the way you hope, its tough to get all the way to the bottom.

 

[Disgruntled Observer*]

The leafs have tried this back in 2008 we gutted our roster, started a rebuild and tanked all the way down to draft schenn, that was when our rebuild started. Tanking doesn't always work out the way you hope, its tough to get all the way to the bottom.

Yeah. Building through the draft doesn't work WHEN YOU TRADE AWAY YOUR NEXT TWO FIRST ROUND PICKS AND THEN FINISH 2ND LAST AND 9TH LAST!!!!!
AHHHHHHHHGGGGGGG

 

[Disgruntled Observer*]

Name one example of a team that got rid of players in their mid to late 20's to tank for a draft? Anyone?

It doesn't happen because hockey is a BUSINESS. A bunch of fans voting to tank for a couple years after it took 5-6 years to get the current assets in place is completely unrealistic. It will never happen in a million years. Not because MLSE is a terribly run organization, there's no owner in the world who would do it. Whether you like the core or not, tweaking and building and re-tooling is the ONLY option, aside from "standing pat" completely.

Well... I agree with this.
Burke's "retool" was a flat out disaster.
And now we're stuck with this unacceptable mediocrity for a long time to come.

 

[roosterman]

Well... I agree with this.
Burke's "retool" was a flat out disaster.
And now we're stuck with this unacceptable mediocrity for a long time to come.

We are only stuck with it for a long time if we continue to build as we have been. An aggressive retool for 1-2 years would help significantly.

Trade Phaneuf, kessel, Lupul, etc. for blue chip prospects (Johansen, Ekbald and the like), tank for one or two years, draft high end prospects and we then have a 2-3 of blue chip prospects / players and lots of high end prospects to build a winning team.

 

[threeGo]

We don't need to trade Kessel. He's still young enough to be useful for a quick tank. Trade Phaneuf and Lupul and our pick should drop further so if we're lucky we get 1st overall, otherwise we get Eichel or something that is still good. in the 2-4 range. We can trade up for first if we're that close anyways.

 

[egd27]

We are only stuck with it for a long time if we continue to build as we have been. An aggressive retool for 1-2 years would help significantly.

Trade Phaneuf, kessel, Lupul, etc. for blue chip prospects (Johansen, Ekbald and the like), tank for one or two years, draft high end prospects and we then have a 2-3 of blue chip prospects / players and lots of high end prospects to build a winning team.

Read this one again slowly................

Name one example of a team that got rid of players in their mid to late 20's to tank for a draft? Anyone?

It doesn't happen because hockey is a BUSINESS. A bunch of fans voting to tank for a couple years after it took 5-6 years to get the current assets in place is completely unrealistic. It will never happen in a million years. Not because MLSE is a terribly run organization, there's no owner in the world who would do it. Whether you like the core or not, tweaking and building and re-tooling is the ONLY option, aside from "standing pat" completely.

 

[roosterman]

Read this one again slowly................

Read the poll question again slowly. It was which method of building a stanley cup winner for the leafs has the higher chance of success. It was not "Name one example of a team that got rid of players in their mid to late 20's to tank for a draft?"

In a lot of peoples opinion Kessel and Phaneuf and others will be past their prime before the Leafs every contend consistantly for the cup (if they ever do given the current direction). Trade them in their prime and add high end prospects / young players to the existing young talent and let them grow together.

 

[egd27]

Read the poll question again slowly. It was which method of building a stanley cup winner for the leafs has the higher chance of success. It was not "Name one example of a team that got rid of players in their mid to late 20's to tank for a draft?"

In a lot of peoples opinion Kessel and Phaneuf and others will be past their prime before the Leafs every contend consistantly for the cup (if they ever do given the current direction). Trade them in their prime and add high end prospects / young players to the existing young talent and let them grow together.

You didn't read it again, did you?

 

[Peasy]

Name one example of a team that got rid of players in their mid to late 20's to tank for a draft? Anyone?

It doesn't happen because hockey is a BUSINESS. A bunch of fans voting to tank for a couple years after it took 5-6 years to get the current assets in place is completely unrealistic. It will never happen in a million years. Not because MLSE is a terribly run organization, there's no owner in the world who would do it. Whether you like the core or not, tweaking and building and re-tooling is the ONLY option, aside from "standing pat" completely.

Buffalo...

 

[EastVan]

I think you need some luck to be successful. Things really need to go your way when you have high draft pick opportunities. Elite teams such as LA and Chicago have been able to grab a couple of impact players and build from there.

 

[Holymakinaw]

Buffalo...

Um......and who in their mid to late 20's did Buffalo get rid of, in order to tank for a draft, exactly?

30 year old Vanek?
31 year old Pominville?
32 year old Ott?
32 year old Erhhoff?
33 year old Miller?
30 year old Leino?
31 year old Roy?
34 year old Regehr?

Who?

 

[roosterman]

You didn't read it again, did you?

For the record here are a couple recent examples I can think of...

Feb 23,2012

LA acquire
Jeff Carter (27 at the time)

Columbus acquire
Jack Johnson (25 at the time)
2012 or 2013 1st Rnd Pick

Columbus drafts in 2012 2nd overall - Ryan Murray.

June 24, 2011

SJ acquire
Brent Burns (26 at the time - was Minn best D-man at the time)
2012 2nd

Minn acquire
Charlie Coyle (19 at the time)
Devin Setoguchi
2011 1st round pick

Minn finish 7th last in strong draft and draft Dumba



I'll grant you that it doesn't happen often and is a hard thing to do for most teams but this is our best chance of building a consistant stanley cup competitor. If we are satisfied with making the playoffs occasionally and maybe even winning a round or two if we are lucky then stay the course.

 

[34]

Kessel does not get traded! The guy is a stud and worth every penny of his $64 Mill contract.


Phaneuf on the other hand... terrible.

 

[Mess]

Our Leafs have finished in the bottom 10 overall in 6 of the last 7 years.

This has allowed them to add young pieces to the team in hopes it gives them the best chance at the Cup in the future.

Granted this has not been the plan, but unintentional tanking nonetheless seems to be the final result of most seasons.

 

[egd27]

For the record here are a couple recent examples I can think of...

Feb 23,2012

LA acquire
Jeff Carter (27 at the time)

Columbus acquire
Jack Johnson (25 at the time)
2012 or 2013 1st Rnd Pick

Columbus drafts in 2012 2nd overall - Ryan Murray.

June 24, 2011

SJ acquire
Brent Burns (26 at the time - was Minn best D-man at the time)
2012 2nd

Minn acquire
Charlie Coyle (19 at the time)
Devin Setoguchi
2011 1st round pick

Minn finish 7th last in strong draft and draft Dumba



I'll grant you that it doesn't happen often and is a hard thing to do for most teams but this is our best chance of building a consistant stanley cup competitor. If we are satisfied with making the playoffs occasionally and maybe even winning a round or two if we are lucky then stay the course.

Columbus was already dead last at the time of the Carter trade, so it wasn't a move to initiate a tank strategy.

Minnesota went from 21st (86 pts) in 2011 to 24th (81 pts) in 2012, again, not exactly a move to "blow it up" and get into the top 3.

 

[Dangles McGavin]

It isn’t usually black-and-white like that. You don’t instantly build; it is a process.

I like our forward group (NHL group + prospects like Leivo, Verheaghe, Johnson, Nylander). I think there may be a gem or two in there. Our defensive prospects look very good, but D prospects are so hard to predict. I’m not quite as high on Rielly as most here, but I do think that one of him or Gardiner is bound to develop into a #1. Because of this, I would trade Dion (with a + if necessary) for a young, potential #1C; the hardest asset to acquire in hockey. Someone like O’Reilly or Hertl. Of course it’s a gamble, but you need to take risks. I still think it’s time to go a different direction from Dion, and I don’t think our defense would suffer as much as people think.

 

[Tak7]

It isn’t usually black-and-white like that. You don’t instantly build; it is a process.

I like our forward group (NHL group + prospects like Leivo, Verheaghe, Johnson, Nylander). I think there may be a gem or two in there. Our defensive prospects look very good, but D prospects are so hard to predict. I’m not quite as high on Rielly as most here, but I do think that one of him or Gardiner is bound to develop into a #1. Because of this, I would trade Dion (with a + if necessary) for a young, potential #1C; the hardest asset to acquire in hockey. Someone like O’Reilly or Hertl. Of course it’s a gamble, but you need to take risks. I still think it’s time to go a different direction from Dion, and I don’t think our defense would suffer as much as people think.

You aren't high on Rielly, but think he could develop into a #1 ....?

 

[TLeafsFan]

Tanking is not an option!

 

[Leafidelity]

Tanking is not an option!

It really isn't. Its no wonder some people here are so miserable. They live in fantasy hockey land.