Confirmed with Link: Bernier traded to Ducks for a conditional 2017 draft pick

[Jack Bauer]

IMO I would have loved to have brought in a more experienced goaltender, for less term to stabilize the team, provide some leadership,etc.

....and then the EA Sports GM's come out to play

More experienced goalie for less term that offers more stability and leadership then Andersen?

There's only 5 or 6 goalies in the entire league who would hit all those points as compared to Andersen and you couldn't acquire any of them for Bernier, a late 1st, and a 2nd.

 

[BertCorbeau]

Jan 2016: Bernier vs. Andersen

Exactly.

Andersen isn't going to be anything more than an average goalie here.

Funny enough that's exactly what he's being paid anyway contract wise and would justify the price they paid in the trade ... If he provides average starter numbers, the deal is justified.

 

[Jack Bauer]

Funny enough that's exactly what he's being paid anyway contract wise and would justify the price they paid in the trade ... If he provides average starter numbers, the deal is justified.

Exactly!

 

[Gallagbi]

We'd like to be proven wrong, but usually aren't.

Seriously though, who are you?

 

[rrc1967]

....and then the EA Sports GM's come out to play

More experienced goalie for less term that offers more stability and leadership then Andersen?

There's only 5 or 6 goalies in the entire league who would hit all those points as compared to Andersen and you couldn't acquire any of them for Bernier, a late 1st, and a 2nd.

Calgary waves hello to you.

Amusing retort, considering Calgary .. did just that within 4 days of the leafs trading for andersen.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Only if has a vezina season.

If not, it's market value.

Jan 2016: Bernier vs. Andersen

Exactly.

Andersen isn't going to be anything more than an average goalie here.

I have no idea where you're getting your figures from(RE: market value for a starter) but it's pretty obvious your opinion of Andersen is based upon inaccurate charts and likely some highlight videos.

Do us a favor, switch teams.

 

[sxvnert]

Jan 2016: Bernier vs. Andersen

Exactly.

Andersen isn't going to be anything more than an average goalie here.

An average (and consistent) #1 is exactly what this team needs.

1. There are only a handful of true #1's in the league, none of which are for sale
2. The assets paid were expendable
3. The contract given out was well below the going rate for legit #1's

 

[Jack Bauer]

Calgary waves hello to you.

Amusing retort, considering Calgary .. did just that within 4 days of the leafs trading for andersen.

Calgary with Elliott signed to 1 year?

How does Brian Elliott any different then Andersen other then he's older and 1 year from free agency and cost just as much when you consider Andersen came with a 5 year extension and Calgary owes St. Louis more value if Elliott re-signs with them?

The fact you think Elliott is an upgrade and Andersen isn't(and can't be) kind of says enough.

Keep waving.

 

[rrc1967]

An average (and consistent) #1 is exactly what this team needs.

1. There are only a handful of true #1's in the league, none of which are for sale
2. The assets paid were expendable
3. The contract given out was well below the going rate for legit #1's

except it remains to be seen if Andersen is a consistent true #1 in this league especially post rule / equipment changes.

IMO with andersen, it's two years away before you can really claim that.

 

[Daisy Jane]

And if he is you will cheer for a different team, right?

Not sure how you can claim to cheer for a team if you'll be openly rooting against their #1 goaltender.

The fact the negative ones here are claiming to be Leafs fans shows how sad and pathetic the internet makes pro sports. People cheering against their own team to make sure they're right on an internet message board post about a trade is a special kind of stupid.

and that's not even the point.

if he is average. are we saying what? we'll never make the playoffs
No..because average goalies have helped their teams make the playoffs.

if he's average does this mean we'll never win a playoff round?
No... because average goalies have managed to win a playoff round.


if he's average does this mean we'll never win the cup?
No... because average goalies have managed to win a cup.

Would it be nice to have an elite goalie. Yes. it would. but that's no guarantee that you win anything. I would rather have stable and steady goaltending that's capable with playing in the systems that the head coach we've got for a while can implement, and can work with our goalie coach to get better and roll the dice than sticking with Ice Cold/Flame Hot goaltending.

and to your other point, i agree.

 

[Jack Bauer]

except it remains to be seen if Andersen is a consistent true #1 in this league especially post rule / equipment changes.

IMO with andersen, it's two years away before you can really claim that.

But Brian Elliott is that consistent true #1 post rule changes.

Got it.

 

[Jack Bauer]

and that's not even the point.

if he is average. are we saying what? we'll never make the playoffs
No..because average goalies have helped their teams make the playoffs.

if he's average does this mean we'll never win a playoff round?
No... because average goalies have managed to win a playoff round.


if he's average does this mean we'll never win the cup?
No... because average goalies have managed to win a cup.

Would it be nice to have an elite goalie. Yes. it would. but that's no guarantee that you win anything. I would rather have stable and steady goaltending that's capable with playing in the systems that the head coach we've got for a while can implement, and can work with our goalie coach to get better and roll the dice than sticking with Ice Cold/Flame Hot goaltending.

and to your other point, i agree.

Not 1 person would ever take Corey Crawford over Carey Price.

But only 1 of them has a Cup ring.

Stable and steady can take you as far as elite can in this sport if you build the right team beyond the crease.

 

[Once]

funny enough that's exactly what he's being paid anyway contract wise and would justify the price they paid in the trade ... If he provides average starter numbers, the deal is justified.

preach Bert preach

 

[Ari91]

"Anderson + cap space in exchange for 30th draft pick, Bernier (+pay out of bonuses owed to him)"

so now you are saying .. you were totally making that up .. right?

or do you realize that this statement of yours in quotes, and against what you are NOW claiming has zero consistency?

I'm not changing anything, you're just applying your own interpretation and stubbornly trying to create an argument because I'm not allowing you to misrepresent the intention of my comment. I could understand the misunderstanding upon my initial comment, I can't understand your stubbornness after the second reply though.
Contrary to what you are presenting, my comment in question wasn't presented or intended to be taken as some mathematical formula. It is a summary of how the transaction between Toronto and Anaheim ended up shaking out. Please re-read that bolded part as many times as you need to for it to sink in so you can understand what I'm trying to say, not what you think and want me to say so you can argue it.

The point about cap space being created is that if Bernier were not included in a trade with Anaheim (or any other team for that matter), the alternative would be Andersen and Bernier's cap hit on the books.

I understand your perspective and take no issue with it. But a conversation can't be had if you're too preoccupied with wanting to hear what you want so that you can quickly shut them down rather than understand what they're saying and respectfully disagree.

 

[Ari91]

But Brian Elliott is that consistent true #1 post rule changes.

Got it.

Well not really to his point. Doesn't mean that Elliot is a consistent, true #1, but that he's a good option for the short-term interim until there's a solid, less risky fit that makes sense for the team long term.

Toronto has had such horrible luck when it comes to goalies, I'm not sure I believe there is such a thing as a 'safe bet' in net for the Leafs

 

[Menzinger]

yes, but conversely - there's very little teams in the league that would have been in the market to trade for andersen this coming season with the expansion draft.

the leafs certainly could have been patient and seen if bernier's stock would continue to rise with the rule changes and also with perhaps a different focus this season, as he certainly settled down and played well at the end of the year.

While I do agree the Andersen trade and signing was a big gamble by Lou with no guarantee that it will work out:

But that said it should be pretty clear that Babcock had absolutely zero faith in Bernier. The fact that he gave Sparks so many starts for the pat part of the season is evidence enough.

Sometimes players just don't work out - chalk this one up to yet another dumb trade by Nonis.

 

[sxvnert]

except it remains to be seen if Andersen is a consistent true #1 in this league especially post rule / equipment changes.

IMO with andersen, it's two years away before you can really claim that.

At best hes a 1A/B. Anyone expecting a bonafide #1 will probably be disappointed.

A starter who can play 55-60 with a 915-920 is exactly what I'm expecting and IMO what leafs brass was expecting before they made that deal.

He buys the organization time to develop a few potential #1's.

 

[Jack Bauer]

Well not really to his point. Doesn't mean that Elliot is a consistent, true #1, but that he's a good option for the short-term interim until there's a solid, less risky fit that makes sense for the team long term.

Toronto has had such horrible luck when it comes to goalies, I'm not sure I believe there is such a thing as a 'safe bet' in net for the Leafs

But not acknowledging the true price of Elliott vs Andersen as some way of putting Andersen down isn't proving anything.

Andersen cost pick 30, 2nd rounder, Bernier. Leafs only made the deal after knowing how much Andersen would cost to lock up.

Calgary traded I believe pick 35 for Elliott for 1 UFA season. If he re-signs Calgary gives up a 3rd rounder. An extension probably comes in at closer to 13-15 in the league vs 18 where Andersen sits so a bit more then Andersen and there's a fairly large age gap in there as well.

Elliott is also going to a weaker team like Andersen and should have every chance to be the #1.

Considering all factors I would take the considerably younger and slightly cheaper goalie every time as people tell me that's how you capitalize on value in a cap world.

 

[BertCorbeau]

Elliot is a true #1 despite only playing more than 45 games twice in his career

 

[Jack Bauer]

Elliot is a true #1 despite only playing more than 45 games twice in his career

Damn you. I was saving those stats for a rainy day in August.

 

[ACC1224]

And if he is you will cheer for a different team, right?

Not sure how you can claim to cheer for a team if you'll be openly rooting against their #1 goaltender.

The fact the negative ones here are claiming to be Leafs fans shows how sad and pathetic the internet makes pro sports. People cheering against their own team to make sure they're right on an internet message board post about a trade is a special kind of stupid.

Agreed, but keep in mind not everyone posts here for the same reasons. The type you describe should just be ignored.

 

[sxvnert]

Elliot is a true #1 despite only playing more than 45 games twice in his career

Hes as much a #1 as Reimer was/is. Durability also plays a huge part in that determination.

 

[Gary Nylund]

They obviously felt they needed to make a change, and obviously felt that Andersen was better for the long term future of the organization.

Only time will tell .. right?

Either way is not without it's associated risks.. however ignoring them and assuming that everything is perfect in candyland .. or coming up with weird math on how the leafs saved on cap space by exchanging two #1 goaltenders is also a bit odd.

I have never been a fan of trading for a goaltender especially from west to east and immediately signing them to a long term contract without passing an eye test.

even with HD save % reducing the potential for error, we are also tossing in goaltender equipment changes into the mix.

however as with most things.. time will tell - we'll see in around 2 years time just how Andersen is fairing for the leafs.

I agree that there are risks - there always are. I also agree that time will tell. I thought you were saying something else altogether, that these were bad moves by our brass etc., I guess I must have misunderstood. Or maybe you've expressed yourself poorly, you seem to have confused many people.

Damn you. I was saving those stats for a rainy day in August.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Elliot is a true #1 despite only playing more than 45 games twice in his career

Damn you. I was saving those stats for a rainy day in August.

okay I had to look it up. (I'm not going to look for actual "starts" we'll just go by the flat numbers.

Elliott has played over 45 games twice in his career (and 1 42, and 43 set) and moved around several times never really establishing the net wherever he went. And he's +30. + and he's basically on a wait and see contract (so if he decides he doesn't want to stay in Calgary ... what exactly is Calgary doing for goaltending? Remember, Elliot was their third choice in goalie).


Andersen who is younger. started over 40 games twice in 3 years. and also has playoff experience.
and cost us Bernier. (a goalie who doesn't fit in here). a 30th pick. (which we were going to draft a goalie with). an a 2nd. AND he's locked up at an average price for an average goalie, AND we can do options in terms for a backup. so we're not scrambling.

yes. tis terrible.

 

[Ari91]

But not acknowledging the true price of Elliott vs Andersen as some way of putting Andersen down isn't proving anything.

Andersen cost pick 30, 2nd rounder, Bernier. Leafs only made the deal after knowing how much Andersen would cost to lock up.

Calgary traded I believe pick 35 for Elliott for 1 UFA season. If he re-signs Calgary gives up a 3rd rounder. An extension probably comes in at closer to 13-15 in the league vs 18 where Andersen sits so a bit more then Andersen and there's a fairly large age gap in there as well.

Elliott is also going to a weaker team like Andersen and should have every chance to be the #1.

Considering all factors I would take the considerably younger and slightly cheaper goalie every time as people tell me that's how you capitalize on value in a cap world.

Don't get me wrong, I totally agree with you there. Neither option is without its risks and I would also take my gamble on Andersen. It seems rrc is valuing the experience that Elliot can bring without much commitment to him, but given where the Leafs are in this rebuild, it makes sense that they were scouting and invested in a player that they not only believe can be a legit starter moving forward, but also a goalie that fits the age group of the core moving forward. You don't want to waste a goalie's immediate prime years on a young group that will need some years to mature and start to realize their potential.