Benning on Halford & Brough (02/01/19)

[member 290103]

It would help your argument if you highlighted what exactly you think Edler is worth...what exactly do you think we get for him?

Perhaps start there and drop the faux outrage.

My outrage with Benning is real. Perhaps you are not clear what the definition of "faux" is? That would not surprise me tbh.

At any rate, time to move on here. I think I have covered my point several times in this thread. I'll leave it at that.

 

[bobbyb2009]

The real problem here is that he does not even want to try. I guarantee you a guy like Gillis would be skilled enough to move him and then re-acquire him if he could.

He prefers to keep the player to mentor "Petey."

He prefers to keep the player rather than trade and re-acquire him because (direct quote): "The problem with that theory is, if you go back 10yrs, it's happened maybe 1 time. We've talked about it, but I don't know if it's something that's real. I know that theory's there, but I don't know if it's something that's possible to do, or not" (He treats the possibility of trying to pull this off as being something as complex as solving the meaning of life).

He prefers to make sure he has the player because he is absolutely dumbfounded as to how he can replace an aging 33 year old 3/4 defensemen if he were to move on.

He prefers to keep the player as he thinks this will give him a good chance to lose 4 straight playoff games this year.

Need I go on.....he's an idiot.

Oh mate... We are on very different pages. Who would be our 1/2 D on this team if Edler is our 3/4?

Or is it ok for us to play with 6 5/6 D and watch what happens to 2019 top 10 pick (higher if we trade these guys), 2020 top 10 pick (Higher if we trade these guys), 2021 top 10 pick, QH, EP, BB, and BH through that debacle?

 

[MS]

The thing is though....so what if he we could not re-sign him. He's 33 years old. The cliff is just around the corner. A competent GM would have the ability to attempt to acquire assets for him now (and push him to agree to a move) and replace him in some manner with someone else, if he did not want to come back.

Add to all this....Edler, is a special case. If anyone would return to Vancouver, he would. The "uprooting" of his life may not be as extreme as we think. He may just work away from his family for a few months, leave them in Vancouver and then return after the season.

If we had *anything* coming through on the blueline, it’s a different story.

But this - theoretically - is a team that should be coming out of a rebuild and contending for a playoff position in 19-20 after a long period at the bottom of the standings. Now, Benning’s incompetence means the team is much less asset-rich than it should be but it should be fairly obvious that Pettersson will drag this team into the playoffs pretty soon here provided some bare minimum of a supporting cast.

But trade Edler this year and Tanev next year, and we’re back in a 2014 Oilers situation.

Should we be in this situation given competent management over the past few years? No, absolutely not. But given where we’re at, this organization can’t afford to lose Edler.

 

[member 290103]

If we had *anything* coming through on the blueline, it’s a different story.

But this - theoretically - is a team that should be coming out of a rebuild and contending for a playoff position in 19-20 after a long period at the bottom of the standings. Now, Benning’s incompetence means the team is much less asset-rich than it should be but it should be fairly obvious that Pettersson will drag this team into the playoffs pretty soon here provided some bare minimum of a supporting cast.

But trade Edler this year and Tanev next year, and we’re back in a 2014 Oilers situation.

Should we be in this situation given competent management over the past few years? No, absolutely not. But given where we’re at, this organization can’t afford to lose Edler.

The aggravation for me is the incompetence of the GM. I honestly believe that a skilled GM would be saavy enough to approach Edler and try to turn him into assets with the hope of bringing him back next year. If that plan did not come to fruition, the GM would have a back up plan to acquire another d-man to replace him.

That the future success of the team is that dependent on a 33 year old 3/4 defensemen - that the team is completely incapable from being able to figure out a solution to replace this player if he were to leave.....that's very aggravating.

 

[MS]

The aggravation for me is the incompetence of the GM. I honestly believe that a skilled GM would be saavy enough to approach Edler and try to turn him into assets with the hope of bringing him back next year. If that plan did not come to fruition, the GM would have a back up plan to acquire another d-man to replace him.

That the future success of the team is that dependent on a 33 year old 3/4 defensemen - that the team is completely incapable from being able to figure out a solution to replace this player if he were to leave.....that's very aggravating.

I don’t necessarily agree agree that a better GM - if hired tomorrow - would be looking to move Edler, because again when you look where the team is at and where are defensive depth is, retaining him is the logical move.

Agreed completely that it’s very aggravating that 5 years of mis-management by an incompetent GM has left us in a position where we have little choice but to overpay to retain a 33 y/o defender.

 

[VanJack]

A savvy GM would retain salary if he had to and move out his two 'foundational pieces' Sutter and Gudbranson for whatever he could get. And a coveted right-shot d-man like Tanev is in high demand at the deadline. Sure it might weaken the Canucks over the short term, but he could at least get a young d-man back with some serious upside and a lot more picks/prospects.

But I have no illusions that any of this will actually happen at the deadline. Jimbo just never seems to be able to get it done.

 

[Melvin]

If we had *anything* coming through on the blueline, it’s a different story.

But this - theoretically - is a team that should be coming out of a rebuild and contending for a playoff position in 19-20 after a long period at the bottom of the standings. Now, Benning’s incompetence means the team is much less asset-rich than it should be but it should be fairly obvious that Pettersson will drag this team into the playoffs pretty soon here provided some bare minimum of a supporting cast.

But trade Edler this year and Tanev next year, and we’re back in a 2014 Oilers situation.

Should we be in this situation given competent management over the past few years? No, absolutely not. But given where we’re at, this organization can’t afford to lose Edler.

If Edler falls off a cliff like so many his age do, then you're in the same position you would be if you had traded him. Except you wouldn't have gotten anything. And you'd be stuck paying a toasted defenseman for God knows how long.

 

[WestCoast CyberG]

I guarantee you a guy like Gillis would be skilled enough to move him and then re-acquire him if he could.

Too funny, Edler's NTC was courtesy of Gillis in the first place...handed them out like pez dispensers.

 

[WestCoast CyberG]

I think I have covered my point several times in this thread. I'll leave it at that.

No you really haven't....what does Benning get for Edler since you are of the mindset trading him is the logical solution?

 

[Josepho]

If we had *anything* coming through on the blueline, it’s a different story.

But this - theoretically - is a team that should be coming out of a rebuild and contending for a playoff position in 19-20 after a long period at the bottom of the standings. Now, Benning’s incompetence means the team is much less asset-rich than it should be but it should be fairly obvious that Pettersson will drag this team into the playoffs pretty soon here provided some bare minimum of a supporting cast.

But trade Edler this year and Tanev next year, and we’re back in a 2014 Oilers situation.

Should we be in this situation given competent management over the past few years? No, absolutely not. But given where we’re at, this organization can’t afford to lose Edler.

Even if Edler was completely willing to waive (which he isn't), this is basically exactly where I stand. Though I'm obviously not against doing the Antoine Vermette with him.

The people who still think this team is "at least 4/5 years away from being a good team" and that we still need to mercilessly sell our assets or whatever are out of touch with the impact Pettersson/Boeser/Horvat will have on this team in the future.

But Edler absolutely has to be signed at a discount. A Smart GM takes advantage of situations like these.

 

[Fatass]

Out with Edler and Tanev.
In with Erik Karlsson and Quinn Hughes.
We are instant Cup contenders.
Get ‘er done JB!

 

[Melvin]

Even if Edler was completely willing to waive (which he isn't), this is basically exactly where I stand. Though I'm obviously not against doing the Antoine Vermette with him.

The people who still think this team is "at least 4/5 years away from being a good team" and that we still need to mercilessly sell our assets or whatever are out of touch with the impact Pettersson/Boeser/Horvat will have on this team in the future.

But Edler absolutely has to be signed at a discount. A Smart GM takes advantage of situations like these.

Has nothing to do with that.

Signing a 33 year old defender to anything more than a two year deal is a bad idea always.

 

[geebaan]

Out with Edler and Tanev.
In with Erik Karlsson and Quinn Hughes.
We are instant Cup contenders.
Get ‘er done JB!

It’s that easy!!!

 

[Josepho]

Has nothing to do with that.

Signing a 33 year old defender to anything more than a two year deal is a bad idea always.

That I completely agree with.

At most it should be like a 4x2.

 

[member 290103]

If Edler falls off a cliff like so many his age do, then you're in the same position you would be if you had traded him. Except you wouldn't have gotten anything. And you'd be stuck paying a toasted defenseman for God knows how long.

This is a large part of my point.

The fear factor associated with life without Edler is largely based on his play today. However, his play today is very likely to drop off next year and in more pronounced fashion each year after that.

A competent GM should be able to deal with the loss of Edler by way of acquiring a different 3/4 d-man via a trade or UFA.

 

[member 290103]

That I completely agree with.

At most it should be like a 4x2.

LOL. You think he takes 4x2!? I'd be shocked. I am thinking he gets $6 x 3 with a NTC of some sort, at a minimum.

 

[Josepho]

LOL. You think he takes 4x2!? I'd be shocked. I am thinking he gets $6.5 x 3 with a NTC of some sort, at a minimum.

learn to read.

 

[MS]

If Edler falls off a cliff like so many his age do, then you're in the same position you would be if you had traded him. Except you wouldn't have gotten anything. And you'd be stuck paying a toasted defenseman for God knows how long.

And that’s the flip side. And there’s no way that we should be giving him a 5-year deal and if that happens good god. And if Edler is refusing to look at less than a 5-year deal - bye!

But the hope should be that you can leverage his desire to stay here into a 2-3 year deal.

 

[F A N]

The real problem here is that he does not even want to try. I guarantee you a guy like Gillis would be skilled enough to move him and then re-acquire him if he could.

Except a guy like Gillis had a policy of never approaching a player to waive his NTC or NMC. So Gillis wouldn't even have tried.

 

[member 290103]

Except a guy like Gillis had a policy of never approaching a player to waive his NTC or NMC. So Gillis wouldn't even have tried.

Yeah, maybe, valid point. He did say that.

 

[bbud]

Can you name a player with trade protection who has played 13 years and almost 800 games for one NHL team who publicly declared his desire to stay in that city, and was still the best defensemen on his team, and who was forced to waive it or coerced to waive it? Just curious how many times GM's have successfully navigated that one in the past?

It would be suicide by any GM that has to be a mutual decision .

 

[bbud]

Except a guy like Gillis had a policy of never approaching a player to waive his NTC or NMC. So Gillis wouldn't even have tried.

Gillis said it over and over he would never ask any of his Ntc to waive.

 

[bbud]

If that happened, I'd agree with you. It clearly did not though. Benning doesnt want to trade him. He wants to re-sign him.

Honestly if Edler wants to stay refuses any trade discussion Bennings best option is sign him it's not like he's a terrible player , also expect Edler wanting to stay won't be looking to break the bank.

 

[ProstheticConscience]

Too funny, Edler's NTC was courtesy of Gillis in the first place...handed them out like pez dispensers.

By any chance are you familiar with how many NTCs Benning's handed out? Go ahead and look that up. We'll wait.

 

[sting101]

Look, Edler is 33 years old. He is playing well now, but is this really a guy that is going to be a massive lynch pin for the D corp in 2, 3 years? I have no personal issues with Edler, I just get sick and tired of Jim Benning trumpeting "mentorship" and talking about how we have no one to replace someone, so we have to sign them.

I can guarantee you that if we had a competent GM in place, he'd go to Edler and try to sell him on a trade. He'd acquire young assets, or draft picks that would help the team when it is ready to contend and he'd be skilled enough to replace Edler in the off-season with another player.

That we just throw our hands up in the air and give up is what bothers me. By the time this team is anywhere close to contending for a Stanley Cup, Edler will have retired to his nice cozy British Properties Estate, and we will have missed out on all the assets we could have at one time acquired for him.

Any competent, rational GM would be out there trying like mad to sell Edler, Tanev, Gudbranson, Sutter....that Jim keeps them because they are good mentors and he does not know how to replace them is idiotic.

(Oh, and spare me the sob story about poor Edler having to deal with relocating his life to Vancouver and make millions of dollars, living a celebrity lifestyle away from his beloved Sweden. What a joke).

Salo was 33 in 2007