Belmont Park Islanders Arena Project - Upd 6/7 Construction ongoing, sched open for 2021-22 season
- Thread starter sawchuk1971
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I am happy for Islanders fans and this should help horse racing in New York State as well. By winterizing Belmont the state owned NYRA can then sell Aqueduct near JFK airport and the current slots casino there will most likely become a full blown casino with poker and table games.
I concede I thought Brooklyn could work but when I went to a game there it was simply awful. Barclays does have limited LIRR access but it is simply the shuttle from Jamaica
http://web.mta.info/lirr/Timetable/Branch2/CityTerminalBranch.pdf
This should work out well for just about everyone.
I concede I thought Brooklyn could work but when I went to a game there it was simply awful. Barclays does have limited LIRR access but it is simply the shuttle from Jamaica
http://web.mta.info/lirr/Timetable/Branch2/CityTerminalBranch.pdf
This should work out well for just about everyone.
Even as a Ranger fan, the renderings look beautiful. On it's own, but especially when viewed in conjunction with the Belmont racetrack/ grandstand. Every new arena is the same concrete/ metallic look, I think the reno Coliseum is far more generic. The brick look and architecture could look timeless ad flow perfectly with the entire site.
When i saw how bad Barclay center was for hockey, I basically called it an oversized Key arena (seattle's arena, prior to the reconstruction of it) with the same problem. Ice is off centered and obstructive views. One would think with that kind of $$$ spent on to build Barclay center that it would been done properly.
My guess is OVG was required to design the exterior to have it fit with the surroundings.
Uberpecker
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Why the design looks that way is easy to answer: It was done by crappy architects. Who were probably hired by people who either don't understand or don't care about architecture or probably both. This reactionary pseudo-New Urbanism-style nonsense is an intellectually and philosophically bankrupt mockery of the profession. And this has nothing to do with my team allegiance. If that thing were built for the Sabres, I'd say the same thing.
Also, I wasn't implying they should redo the Colisseum NOW, but that they should've found a solution before the last redeveloppment for the Isles to be able to stay there. Arenas are hugely expensive and there's usually a ton of tax payer's money involved. If not directly, then via tax relief for the investors, infrastructure cost payed by the general public, etc. So if you have the opportunity to have more than one team play in one facility, then it's generally speaking a good idea to do it, let alone have two arenas and only one team in the area.
I will admit, that I don't have any insider knowledge on why the lighthouse project or the redevelopment of the Coloseum area didn't work out, probably has to do with ownership and where and how they could make the most money. Urbanistically and certainly architecturally, however, the Lighthouse project looked like the better solution.
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You do realize they can't just design it however they want to? It has to be fit with the environment of the area which happens to be Belmont horse track site.
To redo Colisseum would have cost a whole lot more money than building a new one from scratch.
mrhockey193195
Registered User
Really happy for Islanders fans. I don't know the intricacies of the plan, but I really hope this works out and gives a permanent (and easily accessible) home for the Isles. It will be great to know they will be in LI for the long-term.
EDIT: forgive the uninformed question, but how easy is it to get to Belmont from Manhattan? I've never taken LIRR, no idea if it stops near the park.
EDIT: forgive the uninformed question, but how easy is it to get to Belmont from Manhattan? I've never taken LIRR, no idea if it stops near the park.
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Uberpecker
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You do realize that the state-of-the-art architectural way to complement an existing historical ensemble isn‘t to make the new addition look make-belief old. That attitude screams intellectually-lazy-uneducated-newly-rich (not directed at you but at the designers and developers) and betrays the cultural as well as economic potential such a building could have for the team and the community.
What‘s more, the existing grandstand isn‘t even that old, it‘s for the most part a late-modernist design from the Sixties.
I should probably make clear, that it wasn‘t my intention to put a damper on the enthusiasm of Islanders fans about their new home. Without a doubt, the team and the fans deserve a modern facility as well as a great game-day experience.
It does seem to me, however, that from an urbanistic and especially architectural standpoint a lot of opportunities were missed here. Which in itself isn‘t particularly uncommon. It‘s still annoying to see, though.
Again, and I'm not trying to be rude here, but you still are not understanding why the arena is being designed the way it is. Posters in this thread have already explained why and it has nothing to do with lazy or crappy architects.
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Picture below is an aerial shot of Belmont Park circa 1960 with original grandstand at the bottom right. Looks pretty similar to the new one they built after they tore this one down in '63.
Picture of the backside of the old grandstand. Looks like they just copied it when building the new one.
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The government does have a say on how the arena look especially on state owned land. They don't care what the inside looks like, they care about what the outside looks like. They aren't just going to approve any exterior design of the arena especially if the design doesn't fit with the surrounding. Details like this matter. It wouldn't look right if the arena looked too modern in comparisons to the race track.
Seattle own arena project had to go through several meetings through Seattle's design commission making changes to how the arena looks on the outside.
Uberpecker
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Nice find.Picture below is an aerial shot of Belmont Park circa 1960 with original grandstand at the bottom right. Looks pretty similar to the new one they built after they tore this one down in '63.
Picture of the backside of the old grandstand. Looks like they just copied it when building the new one.
Now, what we can learn from this in my opinion is the following: There are two dominating elements of different architectural quality here:
1. The late-modernist grandstand, which clearly represents the era in which it was built as well as the structural logic under which it was constructed.
2. Attached to it the clubhouse, which apparently is a (watered down, as I would argue) copy of an earlier building, lacking many of its predecessor's defining details, such as that outside flight of stairs pictured in your photo.
In addition to that, there also exist some elements stemming from the track's original early-1900s-era, like e.g. these pillars, which however, have been relocated on site from their original position:
The point is, we are dealing with a clearly heterogenic ensemble that has already been reshaped by different developments of different eras in the past. Consequently, for a designing architect of a new complementary project there is an abundance of architectural and philosophical references to potentially draw from as logical starting points for their own contribution, the weakest of which being the facade of the clubhouse which in itself alread represents a copy.
In no way, shape or form, however, is the logical conclusion here to design a contemporary building that is made to look like it was built a hundred years ago. That is just lazy, populist thinking preventing the emergence of a potentially significant result.
TheLegend
Megathread Gadfly
Obviously someone here doesn’t believe in the retro look. 
Some of the best structures architecturally on the planet were constructed as far back as the 1700s. Besides, with something like an arena the function has more importance than the form.
The outside could look like a giant shipping box from Amazon as long as the inside has everything you need.
Some of the best structures architecturally on the planet were constructed as far back as the 1700s. Besides, with something like an arena the function has more importance than the form.
The outside could look like a giant shipping box from Amazon as long as the inside has everything you need.
Edmonton East
BUT the ADvaNCEd STatS...
- Nov 25, 2007
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And neither winter has any snow...
Edit: Went back and looked at the Prudential Center timeline. I guess 2 years is possible...but even the Devs had to start the season on the road for a month and the Isles' approved plans are significantly more expensive (even adj for inflation) and way more complex than the Pru Center development.
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The LIRR runs trains when the horses are running
http://web.mta.info/lirr/getaways/belmontpark/5-20 to 7-7-2019 - BP - GO 501.pdf
More importantly a new station will be built for the arena
Islanders arena project at Belmont Park now includes new LIRR station
The new station is expected to be partially open for service for eastbound customers — going from Manhattan to Long Island — in 2021, at the time of the arena project opening, according to a state-commissioned analysis of the project conducted by BJH Advisors LLC. The station, partially located in Elmont and the other half in Bellerose Terrace, will be fully operational for both eastbound and westbound customers in 2023, the analysis said.
The train stop — located between the Bellerose and Queens Village stations — will be the first, new year-round LIRR station built since 1976, when the railroad opened a station on the Southampton LIU campus. The lightly used station was dismantled in 1998. The last new full-time LIRR station that still is operable is Massapequa Park, built in 1933.
Trains will stop at the new Elmont station every half-hour during peak times and every hour during off-peak times. Electric shuttle buses operated by the developer will take LIRR riders to the arena, hotel and retail village. The station, which is three-quarters of a mile from the arena, will be built entirely on existing LIRR property.
The station platform will be large enough to serve 10-12 LIRR cars. The station, which will be ADA compliant, will have an overpass with elevators connecting the north and south side platforms, the LIRR said. Other amenities include platform canopies and shelter sheds, LED lighting, electronic signage, benches, charging ports, an art installation and bicycle racks, according to a LIRR spokesman.
Also, we have seen several arenas open in the middle of the season - most notably Centre Bell (Molson) in Montreal and the now Scotiabank Arena in Toronto.
Both teams had huge sendoffs for the old barns
Uberpecker
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That is most certainly true, haha! And sorry if I hijacked the thread which I didn't mean to do.Obviously someone here doesn’t believe in the retro look.
True, but their cultural significance and often also their practical value stem from the fact that they were built not only with the technical knowledge and cultural background but also for the needs and requirements of their time. In many cases we nowadays couldn‘t even recreate what people achieved back then, even with our current technologies and materials. And even if we can (and sometimes do), the results don‘t have the same meaning.
St. Paul‘s Cathedral rebuilt on another site with concrete? Unless you either use it as a deliberate intellectual statement about your own philosophical era (like some actually did during Postmodernism) or as a comment about the make-believe nature and insignificance of our present culture (which I‘d personally find too cynical), it doesn‘t make a lot of sense.
That is also true, and it has even been academically covered from different angles by architects like e.g. Venturi/Scott Brown or Koolhaas. V/SB have called it "duck" (a building shaped like an object or animal) and "decorated shed" (a building of basic form with an element of representation like e.g. a billboard attached to it). Koolhaas called the phenomenon "lobotomy", metaphorically describing the secession of inside use from outside shape.
It still leaves us, however, more so than ever, with this practical and philosophical question: If we can make our buildings look anyway we want to on the outside, then what SHOULD we make them look like?
And that question turns out to be more difficult to answer than it would seem on first glance.
Obviously someone here doesn’t believe in the retro look.
Some of the best structures architecturally on the planet were constructed as far back as the 1700s. Besides, with something like an arena the function has more importance than the form.
The outside could look like a giant shipping box from Amazon as long as the inside has everything you need.
In 1961 a NBC sitcom took a look at this subject
TheLegend
Megathread Gadfly
I grew up with that show.
But the message was clear almost 60 years ago - who cares what the outside looks if the inside works.
Meanwhile, the Dolan's still have the ticking time bomb of 2024 to deal with. Penn Station HAS to be rebuilt and to do so MSG needs to be relocated.
cowboy82nd
Registered User
Barclay's was done properly ... for basketball. It was NEVER intended for hockey.
It originally was planned for both but made it cheaper so it made it difficult for hockey.
