Seravalli: Belief is Lindholm won’t re-sign with Calgary

[bam09]

Again. It’s the first line. If 23 year old Ruzicka and 24 year old Dube, neither of whom had ever played more than 14 minutes a game, didn’t hit career highs while playing on the first line, then what are we even doing here?

Yes, Toffoli hit career highs — by heavily outscoring Lindholm.



He’s not a top 15 C. See the list upthread.

Top 20 is questionable. McDavid, Draisaitl, MacKinnon, Matthews, Crosby, Pettersson, Hughes, Barkov, Point, Thompson, Eichel, Stutzle, Zibanejad, Aho, Hintz, Malkin, Bergeron, Hischier makes 18. I’m guessing most fans would build a team around Larkin or Miller or Kopitar before they’d build one around Lindholm. Tavares is still in that conversation as well. That’s 22 names and Lindholm isn’t clear-cut better than any of them.

If we just simplify and say he’s 20-25, that’s a guy who is a 2C on a quality team with only rare exceptions. Calgary was the exception for a while because of their strength on the wings, but we saw how far that got them in the playoffs, and we saw what happened to Lindholm when the winger quality slipped. Washington might be another playoff-potential team where he could step in at 1C. Beyond that? He’s either a 2C or he’s slumming as the 1C on a doormat. Based on his desire to move on from Calgary it would appear he’s chasing the former option.

Here's how it works with Flames fans: a player is valued based upon his best recent season when they're a Flame, and they're the worst recent season ever once they're gone. You're exactly right in your assessment, but it's going to fall on mostly deaf ears. The narrative shifts in alignment with this.

Right now, he's a 40 goal Selke runner up centre. If he's traded, he was never worth the money and a 65 point supporting cast player.

 

[wintersej]

Again. It’s the first line. If 23 year old Ruzicka and 24 year old Dube, neither of whom had ever played more than 14 minutes a game, didn’t hit career highs while playing on the first line, then what are we even doing here?

Yes, Toffoli hit career highs — by heavily outscoring Lindholm.



He’s not a top 15 C. See the list upthread.

Top 20 is questionable. McDavid, Draisaitl, MacKinnon, Matthews, Crosby, Pettersson, Hughes, Barkov, Point, Thompson, Eichel, Stutzle, Zibanejad, Aho, Hintz, Malkin, Bergeron, Hischier makes 18. I’m guessing most fans would build a team around Larkin or Miller or Kopitar before they’d build one around Lindholm. Tavares is still in that conversation as well. That’s 22 names and Lindholm isn’t clear-cut better than any of them.

If we just simplify and say he’s 20-25, that’s a guy who is a 2C on a quality team with only rare exceptions. Calgary was the exception for a while because of their strength on the wings, but we saw how far that got them in the playoffs, and we saw what happened to Lindholm when the winger quality slipped. Washington might be another playoff-potential team where he could step in at 1C. Beyond that? He’s either a 2C or he’s slumming as the 1C on a doormat. Based on his desire to move on from Calgary it would appear he’s chasing the former option.

Boston would be one of those teams that’s an exception I think. Although he would be with Marchand and DeBrusk and not with Pasta so like last season in Boston there isn’t a clear cut 1st line. (Assuming no Bergeron at least)

 

[jkutswings]

Boston just seems to make too much sense. Let Berg/Kre retire and pair a responsible center with Pasta to help keep things rolling for a few more years.

 

[Play]

The Calgary Flames should rebuild, they can get decent package for Lindholm and Hanifin.

Huberdeau and Kadri don't move the needle to make a difference.

If they don't rebuild right now, one will be forced on them in 2-3 years.

The Flames are fine

 

[Youngguns80]

Boston just seems to make too much sense. Let Berg/Kre retire and pair a responsible center with Pasta to help keep things rolling for a few more years.

But they have nothing to trade going all in left the cupboards bare. Quite a few team can outbid them with prospects and picks.

Time for Boston’s run to end and rebuild.

 

[wintersej]

But they have nothing to trade going all in left the cupboards bare. Quite a few team can outbid them with prospects and picks.

Time for Boston’s run to end and rebuild.

I don’t see a team with the best goalie duo (both under 30), one of the best D groups (McAvoy, Lindholm, Carlo all under 30) and a Richard winner who was second in Hart voting who is also in his 20s going for a rebuild. They badly need to find an age appropriate #1C and that can be tough without tanking out. But if you tank out you also need to find all these elite pieces they already have. Next season the Bruins will have 20-30 million in cap space. They ain’t rebuilding they are on the hunt to find a C through free agency or trade.

 

[Ace]

I don’t see a team with the best goalie duo (both under 30), one of the best D groups (McAvoy, Lindholm, Carlo all under 30) and a Richard winner who was second in Hart voting who is also in his 20s going for a rebuild. They badly need to find an age appropriate #1C and that can be tough without tanking out. But if you tank out you also need to find all these elite pieces they already have. Next season the Bruins will have 20-30 million in cap space. They ain’t rebuilding they are on the hunt to find a C through free agency or trade.

The hunt for a 1C without rebuilding is called getting stuck in no man’s land for a decade.

 

[wintersej]

The hunt for a 1C without rebuilding is called getting stuck in no man’s land for a decade.

Perhaps, but we are also talking about a very attractive market and a team that has all the other pieces. A team that with a 37 year old Bergeron had over 130 points. Not sure if there could be a more attractive situation for a pending UFA #1C. They did this before with Savard and Chara.

 

[SeanMoneyHands]

Unfortunately I think he goes back to Carolina if Carolina can’t get William Nylander.

 

[BradMarchandismydad]

But they have nothing to trade going all in left the cupboards bare. Quite a few team can outbid them with prospects and picks.

Time for Boston’s run to end and rebuild.

We are too good and young to rebuild. Like we’d have to execute five or six separate trades in a cap restricted market, which would decimate our return.

We have the best goalie tandem in the league, one of the best d cores in the league, and our wing depth plus bottom six are top notch. If you plug Lindholm into our top line we are at a minimum in contention for the presidents trophy again. Jury is obviously out on our stanley cup chances as is since we’ve struggled the past two years in the playoffs.

The hole is really just at future and current top six centers.

Not sure how high Calgary brass views Lysell but I’m assuming he’d have to be the centerpiece along with futures.

 

[Youngguns80]

We are too good and young to rebuild. Like we’d have to execute five or six separate trades in a cap restricted market, which would decimate our return.

We have the best goalie tandem in the league, one of the best d cores in the league, and our wing depth plus bottom six are top notch. If you plug Lindholm into our top line we are at a minimum in contention for the presidents trophy again. Jury is obviously out on our stanley cup chances as is since we’ve struggled the past two years in the playoffs.

The hole is really just at future and current top six centers.

Not sure how high Calgary brass views Lysell but I’m assuming he’d have to be the centerpiece along with futures.

Columbus, Minnesota and Nashville just to name 3 teams that could easily outbid Boston and probably will

 

[wintersej]

Columbus, Minnesota and Nashville just to name 3 teams that could easily outbid Boston and probably will

In assets? Probably. But there are no guns to Lindholm or Schiefle’s heads not to go to market in an off-season where salaries are looking to get reset.

 

[Sebastien]

Columbus, Minnesota and Nashville just to name 3 teams that could easily outbid Boston and probably will

Minnesota wouldn't..they are in cap hell and have zero Money..so rule them out. Their gm also doesn't trade assets for rentals

 

[Youngguns80]

In assets? Probably. But there are no guns to Lindholm or Schiefle’s heads not to go to market in an off-season where salaries are looking to get reset.

My presumption is if they even go to market.

Minnesota wouldn't..they are in cap hell and have zero Money..so rule them out. Their gm also doesn't trade assets for rentals

All assumptions would be for an extended Lindholm and again if he even goes to market

 

[Yepthatsme]

The hunt for a 1C without rebuilding is called getting stuck in no man’s land for a decade.

Vegas, Carolina, Rangers, Boston, and Dallas are just last seasons playoff teams that disprove that. Teams left in a decade of rebuilding however in recent years: Arizona, Buffalo, Edmonton, Toronto with 5 combined playoff series wins over the last 11 seasons to show for it. Detroit currently is in year 7 with a losing record as well, and Ottawa year 6.

This sites infatuation with rebuilds is baffling. There are multiple ways to build a contender, and all a rebuild guarantees is atleast 5 years of watching abysmal hockey.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Minnesota wouldn't..they are in cap hell and have zero Money..so rule them out. Their gm also doesn't trade assets for rentals

He traded assets for 1 year of Reaves, Klingberg and Nyquist, and there was no guarantee that Johansson was coming back.

Lindholm could be done, if we were so inclined.

 

[Sebastien]

He traded assets for 1 year of Reaves, Klingberg and Nyquist, and there was no guarantee that Johansson was coming back.

Lindholm could be done, if we were so inclined.

I am talking about 1st round pick or top prospect. He has traded a 2nd round pick once.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I am talking about 1st round pick or top prospect. He has traded a 2nd round pick once.

Well, you just said "assets".

 

[ctmagic]

I am talking about 1st round pick or top prospect. He has traded a 2nd round pick once.

So your reasoning as to why the GM wouldn’t trade for Lindholm is because he’s never made a trade before using high picks or prospects? #hottake

 

[Sebastien]

So your reasoning as to why the GM wouldn’t trade for Lindholm is because he’s never made a trade before using high picks or prospects? #hottake

Or maybe because you should look at Minnesota cap situation or that our gm has made it abundant clearer he's building through draft till our cap hell is over. Holy crap, yeah its a fact whether you like it or not

 

[ctmagic]

Or maybe because you should look at Minnesota cap situation or that our gm has made it abundant clearer he's building through draft till our cap hell is over. Holy crap, yeah its a fact whether you like it or not

I’m aware of the cap situation. That’s not what you were talking about though. Even with the cap issues, they could figure out a way to get Lindholm. You are just talking in circles now trying to avoid dealing with the flawed logic in the points you are trying to make. Bottom line, if a gm wanted to make this move, it’s possible.

 

[Sebastien]

I’m aware of the cap situation. That’s not what you were talking about though. Even with the cap issues, they could figure out a way to get Lindholm. You are just talking in circles now trying to avoid dealing with the flawed logic in the points you are trying to make. Bottom line, if a gm wanted to make this move, it’s possible.

Lol you should look at Minnesota contract. A bunch of player's on no trade and no movement. They can't even sign their starting G or put a roster together. There's a reason their starting G is unsigned. If he gets 4mil or 3.5 in arbitration, wild have to move one player already. There's a reason they didn't sign any free agent to the roster

 

[DaBroons]

Boston would be one of those teams that’s an exception I think. Although he would be with Marchand and DeBrusk and not with Pasta so like last season in Boston there isn’t a clear cut 1st line. (Assuming no Bergeron at least)

The irony is that pre-draft 2013, there was a rumor that Boston and Calgary had agreed to a trade. If Lindholm was available when Calgary picked (#6 OA), Tyler Seguin and Nick Peverly were going to Calgary in exchange for Calgary's pick and Sven Baerschi, plus perhaps more. However, Carolina selected Lindholm with the 5th OA pick.

Lindholm would be a great center for Marchand and DeBrusk.

Not sure what would be going the other way, however. Calgary doesn't need a goaltender. They probably wouldn't want Grzelcyk b/c of his contract and Carlo plays the right side.

 

[CaliforniaBlues310]

Yea - I imagine they are trying to trade anything but having no prospect pool or picks to trade.

Toronto has been trying to sell Nylander everywhere - while he is a good player, wings are a dime a dozen and true centers aren’t.

I truly think (my opinion) the only true players (able to give quality picks & prospects) for Lindholm’s services are:

Minnesota (1C or 2C)
Columbus (1C for 1-3 seasons then 2C - Fantilli)
Chicago (1C for 1-3 seasons then 2C - Bedard)
Detroit (2C)
St Louis (2C but they did just acquire Kevin Hayes?)
Nashville (1C or 2C)
Seattle (2C)

Even with us getting Hayes, I could still see the Blues interested in a package involving Lindholm and Hanifin coming our way.

We could move Schenn to wing, or include him in the deal (he’s from Western Canada so I could see him waiving his NTC) instead of a Kyrou if you guys want a C coming back instead.