Seravalli: Belief is Lindholm won’t re-sign with Calgary

[The don godfather]

Bruins should be all over this. They're probably gonna clear up an additional 9-10M for nearly 20m in cap space room. Maybe even up to 25m if they trade Ullmark.

I think they on the phone constantly with Conroy regarding this.

 

[Pengu]

That fact that Carolina treated Linholm like crap and never gave him a real shot is their problem.

 

[BrindAmours Army]

That fact that Carolina treated Linholm like crap and never gave him a real shot is their problem.

I don't think that's the case at all. If I recall correctly, we tried him at center and wing, and with a variety of linemates.

Carolina was just god awful during the years we had him. The owner refused to spend, so the only talent we had is what we drafted for the most part. We were usually on the bubble for playoffs, so we were getting good but not great 1st round picks. We had brought in Jordan Staal and Semin, but that's it for "big" names.

2013-2014: Canes had two players finish at >50pts
2014-2015: One, with only one other finishing at >40pts.
2015-2016: One finished >50pts, two others >40
2016-2017: One finished >50pts
2017-2018: Three finished >50pts

 

[BHD]

I don't think that's the case at all. If I recall correctly, we tried him at center and wing, and with a variety of linemates.

Carolina was just god awful during the years we had him. The owner refused to spend, so the only talent we had is what we drafted for the most part. Traded for Jordan Staal and signed Semin, but that's it for big names. We were usually on the bubble for playoffs, so we were getting good but not great 1st round picks.

2013-2014: Canes had two players finish at >50pts
2014-2015: One, with only one other finishing at >40pts.
2015-2016: One finished >50pts, two others >40
2016-2017: One finished >50pts
2017-2018: Three finished >50pts

Lindholm is a great complimentary player. Same with Skinner. Eric Staal is the only guy I can think of who would drive the play.

 

[Double Dion]

I don't think that's the case at all. If I recall correctly, we tried him at center and wing, and with a variety of linemates.

Carolina was just god awful during the years we had him. The owner refused to spend, so the only talent we had is what we drafted for the most part. We were usually on the bubble for playoffs, so we were getting good but not great 1st round picks. We had brought in Jordan Staal and Semin, but that's it for "big" names.

2013-2014: Canes had two players finish at >50pts
2014-2015: One, with only one other finishing at >40pts.
2015-2016: One finished >50pts, two others >40
2016-2017: One finished >50pts
2017-2018: Three finished >50pts

Good post. I agree with you. It was more a player developing through their early 20's and hitting a new level. He was also a bit unlucky with percentages in Carolina.

The Canes like to make bets. They win most of them for sure. They lost with their bet on moving Lindholm because they didn't want to pay him 4M. But they also got a bit unlucky with the middle 6 powerforward they got back being chronically injured.

Lindholm is a great complimentary player. Same with Skinner. Eric Staal is the only guy I can think of who would drive the play.

I wouldn't call a guy who has scored 40 and been a PPG while finishing with a +62 a complementary player. He's not quite Aho, but he does a lot of the same things.

 

[Vitto79]

I bet they all resign except Hanifan

 

[PuckG]

I feel little joy in the Flames being decimated by players deciding to leave. Realistically, it’s an excellent hockey city and the sport, NHL, and BoA are all better when the Flames are competitive (or at least, not shit).

I also hope this is good karma and our studs don’t leave us in a few years time.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I wouldn't call a guy who has scored 40 and been a PPG while finishing with a +62 a complementary player.

When he does that only once, while skating between two Hart contenders, it only reinforces the point that he is a complimentary player. Flames and Canes fans have both seen enough of Lindholm to understand that he’s not going to be a play driver on a top line. You have your choice of deploying him as a low-end 1C riding shotgun to better wingers, or a higher-end 2C.

 

[*OvechKiN*]

To be honest, last year was not a good offensive year for Lindholm. The coaching made no sense. Seems like they took away all his opportunities to shoot and asked him to force the puck over to Toffoli and let him take all the shots. That shot from the slot used to be his thing on the PP, but Sutter took that away from him as well. Certainly looking forward to a change this year. He will easily get back to the 35 goal range.

 

[Double Dion]

When he does that only once, while skating between two Hart contenders, it only reinforces the point that he is a complimentary player. Flames and Canes fans have both seen enough of Lindholm to understand that he’s not going to be a play driver on a top line. You have your choice of deploying him as a low-end 1C riding shotgun to better wingers, or a higher-end 2C.

He had 78 points the full season before that without a Hart contender. I mean it's only 1 years ago the majority of fans on this board figured Tkachuk wasn't worth names like Robert Thomas, Jesper Bratt and Andrei Svechnikov (this was you btw). So downplaying Lindholm based off playing with Tkachuk for only one of those 2 seasons seems a bit revisionist now. Were you wrong then or are you wrong now?

 

[Kranix]

He had 78 points the full season before that without a Hart contender. I mean it's only 1 years ago the majority of fans on this board figured Tkachuk wasn't worth names like Robert Thomas, Jesper Bratt and Andrei Svechnikov (this was you btw). So downplaying Lindholm based off playing with Tkachuk for only one of those 2 seasons seems a bit revisionist now.

He's a good player but his big point totals were riding Gaudreau's coattails.

 

[DJJones]

He's a good player but his big point totals were riding Gaudreau's coattails.

He also tricked people into thinking Gaudreau is good at defense haha.

Lindholm will normalize at .85-.9 ppg while making everyone on his line better.

 

[HockeyVirus]

William Nylander for Lindholm and 2nd 2024.

Signing Lindholm solves the incoming center issue with Tavares being moved to wing eventually. Rumor is he wants in the 8's which Leafs can afford. Think he fits with the overall build of the team with two way players.

2nd is to even it out because Nylander is a slightly better player

 

[*OvechKiN*]

Nylander is not better than Lindholm unless you’re talking pure offense and it’s only a notch better at best. It’s not like Nylander is playing with scrubs in Toronto.

 

[tarheelhockey]

He had 78 points the full season before that without a Hart contender. I mean it's only 1 years ago the majority of fans on this board figured Tkachuk wasn't worth names like Robert Thomas, Jesper Bratt and Andrei Svechnikov (this was you btw). So downplaying Lindholm based off playing with Tkachuk for only one of those 2 seasons seems a bit revisionist now. Were you wrong then or are you wrong now?

Cool, but absolutely everyone knew then and knows now that skating between Gaudreau AND Tkachuk made Lindholm the 3rd best player on that line. Tkachuk scored 34-43-77 to Lindholm’s 27-51-78 (with Tkachuk playing one fewer game ) and you’d be hard pressed to find anyone who favors the guy who scores the same totals with fewer goals while playing the more assist-friendly position.

When separated from them, Lindholm’s numbers plummeted to 22-32-64, which is a truer reflection of who he is when not supported by Hart-level talent.

To put it another way — Lindholm is clearly not in the upper half of 1Cs. Currently in the Polls forum, they’re at #10 and he hasn’t received a single vote out of nearly 200. I’m guessing you wouldn’t be happy with the Flames signing him to a “true 1C” contract in the order of $9M+ with term. Given that he’s going to be outmatched by his 1C opposing counterpart in the majority of games, and given that he requires significant winger support to post first-line numbers, he is not a guy you would pursue to be your 1C unless out of lack of alternatives. He’s better suited to be a 2C unless specfically deployed in a configuration like the Flames had until last year, which very few teams are in a position to do.

 

[CgyFlamesftw]

Cool, but absolutely everyone knew then and knows now that skating between Gaudreau AND Tkachuk made Lindholm the 3rd best player on that line. Tkachuk scored 34-43-77 to Lindholm’s 27-51-78 (with Tkachuk playing one fewer game ) and you’d be hard pressed to find anyone who favors the guy who scores the same totals with fewer goals while playing the more assist-friendly position.

When separated from them, Lindholm’s numbers plummeted to 22-32-64, which is a truer reflection of who he is when not supported by Hart-level talent.

To put it another way — Lindholm is clearly not in the upper half of 1Cs. Currently in the Polls forum, they’re at #10 and he hasn’t received a single vote out of nearly 200. I’m guessing you wouldn’t be happy with the Flames signing him to a “true 1C” contract in the order of $9M+ with term. Given that he’s going to be outmatched by his 1C opposing counterpart in the majority of games, and given that he requires significant winger support to post first-line numbers, he is not a guy you would pursue to be your 1C unless out of lack of alternatives. He’s better suited to be a 2C unless specfically deployed in a configuration like the Flames had until last year, which very few teams are in a position to do.

You can’t use polls to determine flames players at all. I can’t remember the last time a flames player even won one. Hell tkachuk would lose constantly while he was a flame.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

William Nylander for Lindholm and 2nd 2024.

Signing Lindholm solves the incoming center issue with Tavares being moved to wing eventually. Rumor is he wants in the 8's which Leafs can afford. Think he fits with the overall build of the team with two way players.

2nd is to even it out because Nylander is a slightly better player

Why would Calgary do that? You realize that would leave Kadri as the Flames 1C right? Also Nylander is not better, he simply played on a much better powerplay. Even this most recent season their 5v5 effectiveness is very close as seen here. Lindholm is cheaper and plays the more prominent role.

And before you say "but Nylander had 20 more points" well then why don't you trade Matthews for Jason Robertson since Robertson had 20 more points than AM34. Then run Tavares - Domi down the middle

 

[DJJones]

Haha if Conroy traded Lindholm for Nylander plus a 2nd he'd be hated instantly. And that's significant as he's so likable.

Trade a Selke center for a scoring winger... ooph

For a team with too many wingers as is.

 

[tarheelhockey]

You can’t use polls to determine flames players at all. I can’t remember the last time a flames player even won one. Hell tkachuk would lose constantly while he was a flame.

OK, well just as a matter of common sense. Currently in that poll Tage Thompson is running away with #10, with Eichel coming in a respectable second, and Aho tied with Hintz for third. That’s your top 13. That will leave Malkin, Hischier, Stutzle, Bergeron still on the board. That’s your top 17. Would you really slot Lindy ahead of those guys? After that you’ve got the next tier with Zibanejad, Kopitar, Miller, Larkin, Miller pushing into the 20s. I would guess that Lindholm slots somewhere in there, meaning he will be the weaker 1C on the ice about 2/3rds of the time.

What teams are in that bottom 1/3rd? Teams with weak 1Cs are either outright bad (Philly) or heavily dependent on their wingers to carry the team (Washington). That’s your market for Lindholm as a 1C. Anyone else sees him as a solution at 2C, and will want to pay accordingly in terms of both trade and contract.

 

[Metalwood]

I am actually fine with it. They gave it a try and it didn't work out. Kadri, Markstrom, and Huberdeau can be the tank commanders. Weegar would still get good value.

Eight year tank plan, maybe you'll have an arena by then

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

A strong 2C is ideal, but not a necessity. Chicago never had stability behind Toews (an out of position Sharp one year, an of end of the line Handzus the next time and finally an aging Richards). Schenn's numbers were weak in 2019. Stamkos played only 1 game in 2020.

If Necas and Svechnikov perform up to expectation, how much does it matter than their cap efficient 3rd wheel is playing center rather than wing? Flip flop Necas and Kotkaniemi position-wise and no one would say anything about how Carolina is structured, despite the net talent being the same.

 

[Coach Parker]

Can the guy play with undersized LWers who can score?
Can the guy put up Selke numbers?

Sounds like the perfect replacement for Bergeron.

 

[HockeyVirus]

Why would Calgary do that? You realize that would leave Kadri as the Flames 1C right? Also Nylander is not better, he simply played on a much better powerplay. Even this most recent season their 5v5 effectiveness is very close as seen here. Lindholm is cheaper and plays the more prominent role.

And before you say "but Nylander had 20 more points" well then why don't you trade Matthews for Jason Robertson since Robertson had 20 more points than AM34. Then run Tavares - Domi down the middle

What is a better option for the Flames? It's a hockey trade, straight up two good players for an elite one. Lindholm wants out. So you move him for a collection of lesser parts? Flames want to continue trying to win. This allows them to keep high end talent up front to play with Kadri and Huberdeau.

Unless the goal is to get a 3rd liner or two and a 2nd pairing dman then I am sure there is a package out there for that.

 

[viper0220]

William Nylander for Lindholm and 2nd 2024.

Signing Lindholm solves the incoming center issue with Tavares being moved to wing eventually. Rumor is he wants in the 8's which Leafs can afford. Think he fits with the overall build of the team with two way players.

2nd is to even it out because Nylander is a slightly better player

This does nothing for the Flames, if Lindholm is traded, than the Flames need a centre coming back.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

What is a better option for the Flames? It's a hockey trade, straight up two good players for an elite one. Lindholm wants out. So you move him for a collection of lesser parts? Flames want to continue trying to win. This allows them to keep high end talent up front to play with Kadri and Huberdeau.

Unless the goal is to get a 3rd liner or two and a 2nd pairing dman then I am sure there is a package out there for that.

What's a better option? Re-sign him or sell him for futures. Both are absolutely better options. Lindholm can absolutely return a haul, he has no trade protection and he is a top end 2-way center making under 5M.