Seravalli: Belief is Lindholm won’t re-sign with Calgary

[HockeyVirus]

This does nothing for the Flames, if Lindholm is traded, than the Flames need a centre coming back.

Nylander is a center just not with Matthews and Tavares on the roster. He was drafted as a C, played it professionally in Europe and with the Marlies and at times on the Leafs. Just a different type of center. More like a Jack Hughes than a Lindholm

 

[wintersej]

Nylander is a center just not with Matthews and Tavares on the roster. He was drafted as a C, played it professionally in Europe and with the Marlies and at times on the Leafs. Just a different type of center. More like a Jack Hughes than a Lindholm

The biggest hole here is if Nylander would re-up in Calgary. I think the days of pitching Nylander as a potential center are passed, TBH.

 

[Kranix]

The biggest hole here is if Nylander would re-up in Calgary.

Nylander the Calgary kid.

 

[HockeyVirus]

The biggest hole here is if Nylander would re-up in Calgary. I think the days of pitching Nylander as a potential center are passed, TBH.

Not really. He was used like that this season when our centers got hurt

https://thehockeynews.com/nhl/toronto-maple-leafs/news/why-the-maple-leafs-may-finally-have-william-nylander-play-center-after-brief-flirtation-in-preseason

 

[CraigsList]

Lindholm didn’t play center until coming to Calgary. Wouldn’t doubt Nylander could do the same if we need him to.

 

[Youngguns80]

I think they on the phone constantly with Conroy regarding this.

Yea - I imagine they are trying to trade anything but having no prospect pool or picks to trade.

Toronto has been trying to sell Nylander everywhere - while he is a good player, wings are a dime a dozen and true centers aren’t.

I truly think (my opinion) the only true players (able to give quality picks & prospects) for Lindholm’s services are:

Minnesota (1C or 2C)
Columbus (1C for 1-3 seasons then 2C - Fantilli)
Chicago (1C for 1-3 seasons then 2C - Bedard)
Detroit (2C)
St Louis (2C but they did just acquire Kevin Hayes?)
Nashville (1C or 2C)
Seattle (2C)

 

[Kranix]

Toronto has been trying to sell Nylander everywhere - while he is a good player, wings are a dime a dozen and true centers aren’t.

Point-per-game wingers aren't a dime a dozen.

 

[Youngguns80]

Point-per-game wingers aren't a dime a dozen.

Compared to 1C’s or Elite 2C’s - I beg to differ (especially when he is not a play driving).

Again this is not saying he isn’t very good - he is. You can take a C and move to wing but usually doesn’t work the other way.

 

[Mobiandi]

Cool, but absolutely everyone knew then and knows now that skating between Gaudreau AND Tkachuk made Lindholm the 3rd best player on that line.

Patently untrue

 

[tarheelhockey]

Patently untrue

I mean I guess HF’ers needing to make a point in a trade thread might not admit to having known it.

 

[Mobiandi]

I mean I guess HF’ers needing to make a point in a trade thread might not admit to having known it.

As opposed to a community that, on average, watches 2-3 Flames games a year at best?

The 100-point Tkachuk in 2023 was vastly different from the one in 2022. Gaudreau anchored that line offensively and Lindholm was the defensive conscience that freed both of them to play the way they want. Tkachuk was along for the ride and was the obvious third wheel on that line.

 

[SEALBound]

Why isn't Pesce for Lindholm a thing yet? Seems like a pretty easy 1:1 to me?

Then trade Hanifin for a higher end forward.

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

As opposed to a community that, on average, watches 2-3 Flames games a year at best?

The 100-point Tkachuk in 2023 was vastly different from the one in 2022. Gaudreau anchored that line offensively and Lindholm was the defensive conscience that freed both of them to play the way they want. Tkachuk was along for the ride and was the obvious third wheel on that line.

Yet Tkachuk has seen the most success to date not playing on that line, while Lindholm has seen the worst. Even relatively, Tkachuk completely outclasses the rest of his team in points and metrics. Gaudreau lead his team in points, but the gap was nowhere near as strong, and his metrics definitely weren't the best on his team.

 

[elitepete]

Miller+Lekkerimaki for Lindholm

 

[Lunatik]

He's a good player but his big point totals were riding Gaudreau's coattails.

He, like Gaudreau is an excellent player. He made Gaudreau every bit as good as Gaudreau made him. There is a reason why Lindholm's totals didn't nearly fall off as much as Gaudreau's did last year. It was a symbiotic relationship.

 

[Lunatik]

When he does that only once, while skating between two Hart contenders, it only reinforces the point that he is a complimentary player. Flames and Canes fans have both seen enough of Lindholm to understand that he’s not going to be a play driver on a top line. You have your choice of deploying him as a low-end 1C riding shotgun to better wingers, or a higher-end 2C.

I think you are not giving him enough credit, Lindholm is a massive reason both of his most common linemates (Toffoli & Dube) had career years, IMO he was just as misused by Sutter as Huberdeau was. He had to change his game to play between them too and be more of a playmaker than the triggerman he'd been for the previous 3 seasons. Also when it comes to Lindholm, I don't buy what Canes fans are selling, I remember how at the time of the trade so many of you shit on his shot, calling it a muffin when he actually has a fantastic shot.

 

[tarheelhockey]

As opposed to a community that, on average, watches 2-3 Flames games a year at best?

The 100-point Tkachuk in 2023 was vastly different from the one in 2022. Gaudreau anchored that line offensively and Lindholm was the defensive conscience that freed both of them to play the way they want. Tkachuk was along for the ride and was the obvious third wheel on that line.

Yes Canes fans watched a lot of him that year for the same reason that Flames fans watched a lot of Dougie Hamilton.

Even granting all of what you said, he was skating with a 99-point Gaudreau and a 34-goal Tkachuk. He was clearly not the line driver in that environment and absolutely nobody has ever characterized him that way.

More importantly, we know that he isn’t that player in the present because we just watched him attempt to carry a 1st line. What happened? Blame Sutter if you want, but puck don’t lie when it comes to being The Man on the top line. If he were that guy, we would have seen it at literally any point last season.

Specific to a Canes trade, would he slot in ahead of Aho? No. So there you go, he’s a 2C in that context and for about 2/3rds of the league.

 

[super6646]

Sorry but saying lindholm was the best or second best player on that line is incredibly disingenuous. He wasn’t even the highest scoring player on his line THIS PAST season.

He’s a very good player, but he’s closer to being a top 30c than top 10 imo, and it’s why throwing the kitchen sink to him would be a massive mistake.

 

[Some Other Flame]

Why isn't Pesce for Lindholm a thing yet? Seems like a pretty easy 1:1 to me?

Then trade Hanifin for a higher end forward.

Flames don't need Pesce; they already have Andersson & Weegar as longterm locks on the right side and then Tanev as well for another year

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

Yes Canes fans watched a lot of him that year for the same reason that Flames fans watched a lot of Dougie Hamilton.

Even granting all of what you said, he was skating with a 99-point Gaudreau and a 34-goal Tkachuk. He was clearly not the line driver in that environment and absolutely nobody has ever characterized him that way.

More importantly, we know that he isn’t that player in the present because we just watched him attempt to carry a 1st line. What happened? Blame Sutter if you want, but puck don’t lie when it comes to being The Man on the top line. If he were that guy, we would have seen it at literally any point last season.

Specific to a Canes trade, would he slot in ahead of Aho? No. So there you go, he’s a 2C in that context and for about 2/3rds of the league.

Since joining the Flames, every player except Huberdeau has had career numbers when playing with Lindholm.

He didn’t put up elite #s because he wasn’t playing with elite players. Same thing happened to Johnny in Columbus. Not that hard to figure out.

He’s not a play driver but he’s an elite two way center ice man. If you don’t think that’s a highly valuable commodity your opinion is not valid in my eyes.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

If Lindholm won't sign in Calgary and Nylander won't sign in Toronto Then a deal built around Lindholm and Nylander makes a lot of sense

 

[tarheelhockey]

Since joining the Flames, every player except Huberdeau has had career numbers when playing with Lindholm.

You could also rewrite this to say that every player had career numbers while skating with Gaudreau, and the career numbers stopped as soon as he left. One of the notable fall-offs was Huberdeau… the other was Lindholm.

He didn’t put up elite #s because he wasn’t playing with elite players. Same thing happened to Johnny in Columbus. Not that hard to figure out.

Johnny led Columbus in scoring by a huge margin. Lindholm finished a large margin behind Tyler Toffoli.

That is the very definition of the difference between a line-driver and not-a-line-driver.

He’s not a play driver but he’s an elite two way center ice man. If you don’t think that’s a highly valuable commodity your opinion is not valid in my eyes.

Nobody’s saying he isn’t a good player. But selling him as even an average 1C isn’t honest. He has been the 1C by default in Calgary because the team has forever lacked a better player in that role. (Who was the last star 1C for the Flames? Gilmour? That’s crazy, I hadn’t really thought of it till just now)

Teams that would ice him as a 1C are more likely than not to be lottery contenders, whereas those in the playoff race should be slotting him as a 2C. While he is a valuable commodity, he’s a 2C-level commodity like Kadri as far as any serious contending team is concerned. That’s going to impact how he’s valued in terms of both trade and contract. It’s entirely possible someone might give up goofy assets to get him, but that would most likely come from an Arizona or Columbus rather than a Toronto or Carolina.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

You could also rewrite this to say that every player had career numbers while skating with Gaudreau, and the career numbers stopped as soon as he left. One of the notable fall-offs was Huberdeau… the other was Lindholm.



Johnny led Columbus in scoring by a huge margin. Lindholm finished a large margin behind Tyler Toffoli.

That is the very definition of the difference between a line-driver and not-a-line-driver.



Nobody’s saying he isn’t a good player. But selling him as even an average 1C isn’t honest. He has been the 1C by default in Calgary because the team has forever lacked a better player in that role. (Who was the last star 1C for the Flames? Gilmour? That’s crazy, I hadn’t really thought of it till just now)

Teams that would ice him as a 1C are more likely than not to be lottery contenders, whereas those in the playoff race should be slotting him as a 2C. While he is a valuable commodity, he’s a 2C-level commodity like Kadri as far as any serious contending team is concerned. That’s going to impact how he’s valued in terms of both trade and contract. It’s entirely possible someone might give up goofy assets to get him, but that would most likely come from an Arizona or Columbus rather than a Toronto or Carolina.

False. Actually Dillon Dube, Ruzicka, and Toffoli all had career highs in production with Lindholm as their C this season.

Comparing him to Kadri. LOL. Kadri doesn’t even remotely compare to a lindholm. Embarrassing take. He’s a top 15-20 C in the league. Just because he wouldn’t be a top line C on one of the best teams in the league doesn’t mean he’s a 2C. Are Malkin and Draisatl 2Cs?

 

[tarheelhockey]

False. Actually Dillon Dube, Ruzicka, and Toffoli all had career highs in production with Lindholm as their C this season.

Again. It’s the first line. If 23 year old Ruzicka and 24 year old Dube, neither of whom had ever played more than 14 minutes a game, didn’t hit career highs while playing on the first line, then what are we even doing here?

Yes, Toffoli hit career highs — by heavily outscoring Lindholm.

Comparing him to Kadri. LOL. Kadri doesn’t even remotely compare to a lindholm. Embarrassing take. He’s a top 15-20 C in the league. Just because he wouldn’t be a top line C on one of the best teams in the league doesn’t mean he’s a 2C. Are Malkin and Draisatl 2Cs?

He’s not a top 15 C. See the list upthread.

Top 20 is questionable. McDavid, Draisaitl, MacKinnon, Matthews, Crosby, Pettersson, Hughes, Barkov, Point, Thompson, Eichel, Stutzle, Zibanejad, Aho, Hintz, Malkin, Bergeron, Hischier makes 18. I’m guessing most fans would build a team around Larkin or Miller or Kopitar before they’d build one around Lindholm. Tavares is still in that conversation as well. That’s 22 names and Lindholm isn’t clear-cut better than any of them.

If we just simplify and say he’s 20-25, that’s a guy who is a 2C on a quality team with only rare exceptions. Calgary was the exception for a while because of their strength on the wings, but we saw how far that got them in the playoffs, and we saw what happened to Lindholm when the winger quality slipped. Washington might be another playoff-potential team where he could step in at 1C. Beyond that? He’s either a 2C or he’s slumming as the 1C on a doormat. Based on his desire to move on from Calgary it would appear he’s chasing the former option.

 

[ctmagic]

Kaprizov - Lindholm - Zuccarello

Let’s go!!!