Behind the scenes look at the Canadiens 2018 draft weekend

[Hacketts]

For the most part, the general consensus seems that we had a pretty good draft.

The fact people are so poisoned by Bergevin, and will use/find anything to mention his name is too much. Every thread on this board just goes dark, ugly, and personal.

He has his issues, but this board has gone off a cliff with him.

 

[Mrb1p]

He traded back, got an additional pick and still ended up with the player they wanted...

Any other team would be praised for this...

Sign of the times I guess

Agreed, I hate the man but it worked out.

 

[Habs Halifax]

For the most part, the general consensus seems that we had a pretty good draft.

The fact people are so poisoned by Bergevin, and will use/find anything to mention his name is too much. Every thread on this board just goes dark, ugly, and personal.

He has his issues, but this board has gone off a cliff with him.

Drafting is not the problem. We have done well based on where we have picked and the quantity of picks we had. It really is pathetic how the lack of support for our GM has rippled down to pretty much everything we do. TT is no the problem.. there is zero evidence we are bad at drafting and developing.

Hillis was a very good use of a 3rd round pick. He has high upside which is what we were targeting.

As far as taking him with the 62nd pick and not trading it? Were talking about 4 picks (Hillis eventually taken 66) and they were likely looking at a few prospects. But I can't argue one way or another it was a bad move or not. It really does depend on what other prospects we were targeting vs Hillis around that spot. We got Harris and Houde from this trade right? At this stage, it definitely looks like it worked out.

Leafs traded their 1st to move down a few spots and still got their guy... Sandin.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Just checked and the guy who says he wouldn't pick a certain player even in the 7th is Matt Turek, one of our Ontario scouts. Like some implied, good bet that's Merkley.

Merkley ended-up in the right place for him.

I bet he'll be a steal as much as he'll be a headcase

 

[justafan22]

Merkley ended-up in the right place for him.

I bet he'll be a steal as much as he'll be a headcase

There was a 0.0% chance they were getting him especially after how the galchenyuk stuff ended

 

[Andrei79]

I like the subtle fist bump between Timmins and Churla after picking Cam Hillis. Thinking he was quite high on their list. I assume Romanov was picked at that spot because defenders were flying off the board early. They never thought to have a shot at both Olofsson and Hillis (judging by what Timmins said about Olofsson after the draft and then this fist bump with Hillis).

Yeah, saw it too.

Timmins said he wanted Hillis at 62 and was nervous when MB traded down. He didn't want another team picking him.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

There was a 0.0% chance they were getting him especially after how the galchenyuk stuff ended

Yeah I know that.

Just saying, Merkley is a dilema. Pretty sure he'll light it up big in the pros.

 

[Habs Icing]

You realize that we're talking about a 3rd round pick here?

I mean, it's pretty much a crapshoot at that point...the Habs had multiple picks, it was pretty obvious they were going to try to parlay that excess into more picks for the coming years.

This is actually good. This team needs all of the additional picks they can get...this is how you rebuild your organizational depth.

An example of reckless risk is trading UP in the 1st round to draft Jared Tinordi...only to watch the Caps select Evegny Kuznetsov a few picks later.

Now that's dumb and reckless

Look you can't have it both ways. You can't tell me it's a 3rd round pick and then turn around 7 tell it's a good thing that we traded that pick for two lower picks.

 

[Andrei79]

It was dumb luck that we did. If you look at Timmins' expression, he didn't think Hillis would be on the board with their next pick.

My guess is Timmins wasn't happy at either the Shaw or Sergachev trades.

I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't even occur to MB to trade up for Berggren, even the staff loved him.

For a guy who repeats that team building starts at the draft, he's managed them poorly.

 

[417]

Look you can't have it both ways. You can't tell me it's a 3rd round pick and then turn around 7 tell it's a good thing that we traded that pick for two lower picks.

Sorry, i'm not sure what you mean here?

 

[Yoshidas Island]

I love how Timmins says thank you to Bergevin after he gets to select the player he wanted at 62 (Hillis), but also gets a selection later in the draft as well.

 

[Andrei79]

Sorry, i'm not sure what you mean here?

You're saying a 3rd rounder doesnt hold much value at the same time you're saying it was worth getting a much later pick to drop down.

But, this is a question that digs deeper than that tbh. Its not a matter of looking at pure draft ranks, but trusting your team. Your draft team feels a player with high potential is available and should be targetted, why would you gamble with that for pick 133? There was a big drop in talent around the 3rd round this year, it wasnt worth the gamble.

 

[Habs Icing]

Sorry, i'm not sure what you mean here?

There's an old Woody Allen joke that goes life is full of pain and misery and it's so short. Well, your thinking is similar to that joke. The 3rd round pick isn't worth that much so you're glad to have two more picks that are worth even less. Two is better than one. It's more.

You're focusing on the fact that he got his player and an extra pick. I'm focusing on his M.O. Yeah, he got lucky and things went Timmins way this time. But I'll bet things don't go MB's way normally if he operates this way. I saw no rhyme or reason in what he did there. He didn't calculate that Hillis wouldn't be on the board. He didn't even bother asking Timmins the chances of someone else picking Hillis. In his mind he wanted to trade a pick for two lower picks. It was reckless and dumb. He got lucky this time.

 

[Habs Icing]

You're saying a 3rd rounder doesnt hold much value at the same time you're saying it was worth getting a much later pick to drop down.

But, this is a question that digs deeper than that tbh. Its not a matter of looking at pure draft ranks, but trusting your team. Your draft team feels a player with high potential is available and should be targetted, why would you gamble with that for pick 133? There was a big drop in talent around the 3rd round this year, it wasnt worth the gamble.

Bingo!

 

[Le Barron de HF]

You're saying a 3rd rounder doesnt hold much value at the same time you're saying it was worth getting a much later pick to drop down.

But, this is a question that digs deeper than that tbh. Its not a matter of looking at pure draft ranks, but trusting your team. Your draft team feels a player with high potential is available and should be targetted, why would you gamble with that for pick 133? There was a big drop in talent around the 3rd round this year, it wasnt worth the gamble.

I'm going out on a limb here but on McKenzie's list Hillis was 61st (now he might have been like 27th on ours), MB might have gambled he'd be there 5 spots later than where he was projected on the consensus list.

 

[Andrei79]

There's an old Woody Allen joke that goes life is full of pain and misery and it's so short. Well, your thinking is similar to that joke. The 3rd round pick isn't worth that much so you're glad to have two more picks that are worth even less. Two is better than one. It's more.

You're focusing on the fact that he got his player and an extra pick. I'm focusing on his M.O. Yeah, he got lucky and things went Timmins way this time. But I'll bet things don't go MB's way normally if he operates this way. I saw no rhyme or reason in what he did there. He didn't calculate that Hillis wouldn't be on the board. He didn't even bother asking Timmins the chances of someone else picking Hillis. In his mind he wanted to trade a pick for two lower picks. It was reckless and dumb. He got lucky this time.

That's how I see it, too. It's the process more than the end result that I look at here because it puts into perspective the moves that didn't end well - which have been the majority in the last three years.

For example, he knows Timmins wanted Hillis, yet he still gambled.

So, what are the chances he listened to Timmins when he made the Shaw trade before they even knew which players would be available ? Its shortsighted, as usual.

 

[Habs Icing]

I'm going out on a limb here but on McKenzie's list Hillis was 61st (now he might have been like 27th on ours), MB might have gambled he'd be there 5 spots later than where he was projected on the consensus list.

The way he gambled that Weber would be better that PK, Drouin better than Sergachev, Domi better than Galchenyuk or that Galchenyuk is not a center, or that Markov would accept a take it or leave it offer, or that Radulov would be as loyal as a dog. You want me to go on with this man's gambling M.O.

 

[Andrei79]

Yeah I know that.

Just saying, Merkley is a dilema. Pretty sure he'll light it up big in the pros.

I don't see it as a certainty he'll make the NHL for more than a few games. He has skill, but he's lacking in fundamentals without any hint in years now that he's been looking to improve them.

 

[Habs Icing]

That's how I see it, too. It's the process more than the end result that I look at here because it puts into perspective the moves that didn't end well - which have been the majority in the last three years.

For example, he knows Timmins wanted Hillis, yet he still gambled.

So, what are the chances he listened to Timmins when he made the Shaw trade before they even knew which players would be available ? Its shortsighted, as usual.

Exactly!

 

[Le Barron de HF]

The way he gambled that Weber would be better that PK, Drouin better than Sergachev, Domi better than Galchenyuk or that Galchenyuk is not a center, or that Markov would accept a take it or leave it offer, or that Radulov would be as loyal as a dog. You want me to go on with this man's gambling M.O.

The difference is that for these players, chances are he scouted them personally, Hillis I doubt. The gambles he's taken at the NHL level demonstrate that his scouts and himself suck at evaluating talent. This is different IMO since it's gambling from an asset perspective. Anyway, I don't even know why we're bitching about this. The gambled worked in our favor. Sure it might show us that he doesn't listen to Timmins all that much, but we didn't see the list they came up. During the trade, Hillis might have been #27 on our list, but our #28 and 29 might have still been on board too.

 

[417]

You're saying a 3rd rounder doesnt hold much value at the same time you're saying it was worth getting a much later pick to drop down.

But, this is a question that digs deeper than that tbh. Its not a matter of looking at pure draft ranks, but trusting your team. Your draft team feels a player with high potential is available and should be targetted, why would you gamble with that for pick 133? There was a big drop in talent around the 3rd round this year, it wasnt worth the gamble.

You realize they dropped 4 spots back...it's not like they went 4 round back.

 

[417]

There's an old Woody Allen joke that goes life is full of pain and misery and it's so short. Well, your thinking is similar to that joke. The 3rd round pick isn't worth that much so you're glad to have two more picks that are worth even less. Two is better than one. It's more.

No need for the ridicule man...your post just confused me.

You're focusing on the fact that he got his player and an extra pick. I'm focusing on his M.O. Yeah, he got lucky and things went Timmins way this time. But I'll bet things don't go MB's way normally if he operates this way. I saw no rhyme or reason in what he did there. He didn't calculate that Hillis wouldn't be on the board. He didn't even bother asking Timmins the chances of someone else picking Hillis. In his mind he wanted to trade a pick for two lower picks. It was reckless and dumb. He got lucky this time.

I think you're looking for something to criticize him on.

I really have no idea how anyone can knock Bergevin for adding a pick and still drafting the targeted player.

But I guess that's your prerogative

 

[Habs Icing]

The difference is that for these players, chances are he scouted them personally, Hillis I doubt. The gambles he's taken at the NHL level demonstrate that his scouts and himself suck at evaluating talent. This is different IMO since it's gambling from an asset perspective. Anyway, I don't even know why we're *****ing about this. The gambled worked in our favor. Sure it might show us that he doesn't listen to Timmins all that much, but we didn't see the list they came up. During the trade, Hillis might have been #27 on our list, but our #28 and 29 might have still been on board too.

I don't have to look at the Habs' list. Go look at Timmins' face when he hears that MB is going to trade the pick. I don't think he would have been as happy with the #28 or #29. He looked like a kid who just had his ice cream cone ripped from his hands.

 

[Andrei79]

The difference is that for these players, chances are he scouted them personally, Hillis I doubt. The gambles he's taken at the NHL level demonstrate that his scouts and himself suck at evaluating talent. This is different IMO since it's gambling from an asset perspective. Anyway, I don't even know why we're *****ing about this. The gambled worked in our favor. Sure it might show us that he doesn't listen to Timmins all that much, but we didn't see the list they came up. During the trade, Hillis might have been #27 on our list, but our #28 and 29 might have still been on board too.

But, that's the thing. Even if they were, the guy you're paying hundreds of thousands who made those rankings feel #27 was the guy to draft, not 28 or 29. That's his call.

Do you pass on Svechnikov because Kotkaniemi is there ? No. Extreme example, but talent drop offs happen all over in a list. The real question wasnt if the value tables were good, its whether pick 133 was worth the drop from Hillis to the next guy, which clearly didnt seem the case for Timmins (or Churla, for that matter).

 

[Andrei79]

You realize they dropped 4 spots back...it's not like they went 4 round back.

Yeah.

And if Detroit dropped 4 spots they wouldnt have gotten Berggren ?

See how this goes ?