Behind the scenes look at the Canadiens 2018 draft weekend

[G0bias]

Houde was such a bad pick especially when you see who was drafted right after him.

Or even didn't get drafted.

 

[Sun1126]

Behind the scenes of their part time job getting paid full salary. Their product is on the ice and standings.

 

[Kriss E]

I don't know how you can infer that from the video. Hillis was the pick at 62, but I didn't see Timmins make any argument to keep the pick when Bergevin expressed his intent to trade it. And Bergevin asked the team on the phone who they wanted - I doubt they would have made the deal if the team moving up wanted Hillis. Sure, there is the risk of Hillis being taken from 63-65, but then Timmins simply moves on to the next guy on his list.

Also, we are seeing snippets of what's going on. We saw a 15-20 second moment. For all we know, Timmins and Bergevin could have already had a discussion that if they can move down to add a pick, they should do it. Or maybe Timmins advised Bergevin not to do it.
Both are plausible. We don't really know.

 

[WinterLion]

Also, we are seeing snippets of what's going on. We saw a 15-20 second moment. For all we know, Timmins and Bergevin could have already had a discussion that if they can move down to add a pick, they should do it. Or maybe Timmins advised Bergevin not to do it.
Both are plausible. We don't really know.

Yep. It does seem like they were both quite happy and that everyone seemed to be on the same page. It must be hard to make some of those decisions. I imagine with Timmins being Asst. GM now, he must understand both sides a bit better now.

 

[blarneylad]

You're holding it against the GM that he acquired an additional pick, while still being able to draft the player they wanted?

Everything Bergevin does is awful!

 

[Schooner Guy]

I am neutral when it comes to Bergevin as our GM. I'll criticize him for his bad moves (e.g. Alzner) and will praise him for his good moves (e.g. this offseason's coaching decisions throughout organization) and I certainly think there are better GMs in the league. I do find it silly when a small gamble that pays off (us getting Hillis at 66 vs 62) gets so negatively dissected. His counterpart in Toronto received tremendous praise for doing the same thing when he landed Sandin which was a far bigger gamble as it was in the FIRST round. In the 3rd round, we're statistically talking likely organizational depth. In the 1st round we're talking probable impact on a team's NHL roster in ~3 years.

It goes to show how easy it is to fall into trap of criticizing or praising individual moves based on the GM's overall body of work or current status in the eye of the fan base (i.e Bargain Bin in Montreal vs Boy Wonder in Toronto).

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

It's edited and it's likely Hillis was atop a list of players they liked and figured it was fine to trade down.

I guess it's summer time when there's an over analyzing of this magnitude on a lateish pick.

 

[PaulD]

I am neutral when it comes to Bergevin as our GM. I'll criticize him for his bad moves (e.g. Alzner) and will praise him for his good moves (e.g. this offseason's coaching decisions throughout organization) and I certainly think there are better GMs in the league. I do find it silly when a small gamble that pays off (us getting Hillis at 66 vs 62) gets so negatively dissected. His counterpart in Toronto received tremendous praise for doing the same thing when he landed Sandin which was a far bigger gamble as it was in the FIRST round. In the 3rd round, we're statistically talking likely organizational depth. In the 1st round we're talking probable impact on a team's NHL roster in ~3 years.

It goes to show how easy it is to fall into trap of criticizing or praising individual moves based on the GM's overall body of work or current status in the eye of the fan base (i.e Bargain Bin in Montreal vs Boy Wonder in Toronto).

Oh I dont know. Maybe it the lousy blue line, the lousy centerman, and you know...... all the losing.

 

[Schooner Guy]

Its called a horrible track record with a team that has no centermen.

To a team that is going to contend with 3 great centermen.

Precisely my point. Folks are judging individual moves based on the GM's track record. MB gets blasted for being too risky in taking 3rd round gamble that paid off while Dubas gets praised for riskier 1st round gamble that paid off.

 

[Andy]

Ahhh, the new approach to PR is sucking some people in I see.

 

[Habs Icing]

no, it isn't. it's a critique on the decision-making process. You're not disagreeing with anyone but yourself.

As i understood his multiple posts and replies, he was speaking to process, you seem fully focused on outcome. two different arguments all together.

To argue that a good outcome is better than a bad outcome isn't much of an argument, nor something anyone would reasonably dispute.

I agree with Andrei79 in that several aspects of the interaction suggest poor leadership and decision-making on MB's part. That he nevertheless arrived at a positive outcome is fantastic for the team in the context of the asset move, but arguably has some negative potential to the extent that anything that prolongs his tenure is, overall, bad for the franchise.

Another point that Andrei and I forgot to mention was why wasn't this discussed in draft meetings? Shouldn't MB have sat down with Timmins before the draft and presented him with the various plans and options that he had in mind. That way 1) it wouldn't come as an effing surprise to Timmins on the draft floor and 2) Timmins could be prepared and have various options in mind depending on what MB did or 3) Timmins could have told him I don't want to gamble losing this player for an extra 5th round pick.. That clip looked like MB came up with the idea of trading one of those picks on the draft floor. The clip revealed MB working off the seat of his pants with no plan, vision or direction. This one time it worked out but does it really surprise anyone that this is this idiot's M.O. with everything concerning the Habs. His effing scouting staff didn't know on the draft floor what he was going to do. And then he claims everyone is in on the decision making after exchanging a few F-bombs of course.

 

[Habs Icing]

Houde was such a bad pick especially when you see who was drafted right after him.

I don't know, man, Houde looked decent at the development camp. He may surprise some of you guys.

 

[Habs Icing]

Also, we are seeing snippets of what's going on. We saw a 15-20 second moment. For all we know, Timmins and Bergevin could have already had a discussion that if they can move down to add a pick, they should do it. Or maybe Timmins advised Bergevin not to do it.
Both are plausible. We don't really know.

Take a look at Timmins's reaction when he's told they're trading that pick. He was visibly upset and surprised. And then take a look at his and Churla's reaction after they get Hillis. They both wanted Hillis badly.

 

[Sun1126]

I am neutral when it comes to Bergevin as our GM. I'll criticize him for his bad moves (e.g. Alzner) and will praise him for his good moves (e.g. this offseason's coaching decisions throughout organization) and I certainly think there are better GMs in the league. I do find it silly when a small gamble that pays off (us getting Hillis at 66 vs 62) gets so negatively dissected. His counterpart in Toronto received tremendous praise for doing the same thing when he landed Sandin which was a far bigger gamble as it was in the FIRST round. In the 3rd round, we're statistically talking likely organizational depth. In the 1st round we're talking probable impact on a team's NHL roster in ~3 years.

It goes to show how easy it is to fall into trap of criticizing or praising individual moves based on the GM's overall body of work or current status in the eye of the fan base (i.e Bargain Bin in Montreal vs Boy Wonder in Toronto).

Do you even watch any Habs games?

 

[jaffy27]

Oh I dont know. Maybe it the lousy blue line, the lousy centerman, and you know...... all the losing.

But you do see what we’ve drafted in the last few years, the centre quality that’s coming up, the fact that we are aiming for another bottom 8 finish that’ll yield us another great draft......you do see the bigger picture do you??

Posters (not you specifically) clamour for a tank job and when they get one, they complain that we are losing....DUH.....it’s a f***in tank, I’ve yet to witness a tank that involves lots of winning.

 

[Kriss E]

Take a look at Timmins's reaction when he's told they're trading that pick. He was visibly upset and surprised. And then take a look at his and Churla's reaction after they get Hillis. They both wanted Hillis badly.

I mean, maybe. I don't know those guys to know exactly what's going through their heads.
Was Timmins disappointed? Ya, I could see that. His job is to draft prospects and he really liked Hillis apparently, that doesn't necessarily means he disagreed with the decision.

I'm not disagreeing with you as a whole. This management has shown time and time again they waste their time on sideway moves at best. They take useless gambles that I'd like them to stop taking.

 

[dinodebino]

Do you even watch any Habs games?

What is this comment ??? Schooner Guy is one of the oldest posters here and is level headed.

Like one old poster would have written I'm sure (pardonnez-moi, sir Lord Chezz) GTFO noob!

Seriously, don't doubt Schooner's love of the team. His input is needed on a very, very toxic board.

 

[Kriss E]

But you do see what we’ve drafted in the last few years, the centre quality that’s coming up, the fact that we are aiming for another bottom 8 finish that’ll yield us another great draft......you do see the bigger picture do you??

Posters (not you specifically) clamour for a tank job and when they get one, they complain that we are losing....DUH.....it’s a ****in tank, I’ve yet to witness a tank that involves lots of winning.

Euh no. They laugh at the dumbass in charge who thinks the defense is better. They laugh at the moron because his plan is to trade for a winger, use him at center, and then use the center he drafted on the wings. They worry because that dufus decides to rid himself of all puck movers and brings in old school Dmen. Even last year when it was already obvious we should tank, this guy was asking for a roster scorer like Patches as a return. They're not confident in the rebuild because that idiot tried to sign free agents, when he should be focusing on tanking.

That's why people still criticize him. And also, why would anybody want this dickhead to be the one in charge of a rebuild when he's proven to be a failure for 7 years is a true mystery to me.

 

[Habs Icing]

Criticizing him because he traded down in the 3rd round, 4 spots down, to acquire an additional pick and still draft the player they wanted originally...

Is not a legitimate criticism, at least not IMO.

A broken clock is right twice a day. So according to your logic we shouldn't talk about fixing it because twice a day it gives you the correct time. Same with that trade on the draft floor. That clip was a window on how MB works. He was right this one time so we shouldn't talk about how he operates because you know he was right for once.

So I wonder how we ended up with one of the worse d-corps in the league after telling us it was better than the previous years. I wonder how we trade PK for Weber and then do nothing to work around the parameters of that trade. i wonder how we lose Radulov and Markov? I wonder how we end up trading Galchenyuk when his value is at a very low point and then we get an asset that doesn't address any of our needs. I wonder how we trade Sergachev for a winger and then put him in a role he can't fulfill. I wonder how we got to this point with Pacioretty where it's full of acrimony and bad blood. It obviously has nothing to do with M.B's modus operandi.

 

[Andrei79]

I'm not disagreeing with you as a whole. This management has shown time and time again they waste their time on sideway moves at best. They take useless gambles that I'd like them to stop taking.

That's the crux of it for me.

It's much earlier in the draft, but thats why I like giving the Burke and Erik Karlsson example. He thought he was smarter than his scouting staff, didn't believe in staying put for a 5'10" defender his head scout raved about. Turned out it was a foolish gamble. The risk isn't worth the late picks. Simply going to the next guy on your teams list can be a huge drop off.

 

[Habs Icing]

But you do see what we’ve drafted in the last few years, the centre quality that’s coming up, the fact that we are aiming for another bottom 8 finish that’ll yield us another great draft......you do see the bigger picture do you??

Posters (not you specifically) clamour for a tank job and when they get one, they complain that we are losing....DUH.....it’s a ****in tank, I’ve yet to witness a tank that involves lots of winning.

I agree with you the last two drafts look good but I want to point you to an old Northern Pikes' song. She Ain't Pretty She Just Looks That Way. We just need to go to the 2013 draft year and take stock. According to almost everyone we nailed it that year. 5 years later it turns out it was just an okay draft year. Basically I want to remind you don't count your chicks before they're hatched.

But let's put that thought aside for a moment. You say to look at the center quality coming up. Okay let's look at it. Except for Kotkaniemi none of those centers are projected to be #1 centers not even on the most optimistic Habs fan list. Poehling projected 2nd maybe 3rd. Hillis, McShane, Fonstad, Oloufson mostly 3rd line centers. If we're lucky lucky maybe some will becond #2. Some of them won't even make it to the NHL as 4th liners. The odds are against it. So we're left with one prospect whose ceiling may be #1 but many experts project as a very good #2. So even though we picked up lots of promising center prospects our #1 center position hasn't really been solidified. And if you think I'm being overly pessimistic I ask you to look at the last center prospect we picked at 3rd OV. Kotkaniemi could just as easily become a #1 center as he could simply become a lot of Cockamemie.

 

[417]

A broken clock is right twice a day. So according to your logic we shouldn't talk about fixing it because twice a day it gives you the correct time. Same with that trade on the draft floor. That clip was a window on how MB works. He was right this one time so we shouldn't talk about how he operates because you know he was right for once.

And using your logic...

Habs should never trade down.

That clip was not a window into how MB works, its an edited video which doesn't reveal much beyond how Timmins really wanted Hillis...which again.

The Habs acquiesced by drafting him AND they added another pick.

You're trying to make it about more than that, and to me that just highlights you're feelings about Bergevin

Not the legitimacy of making that trade.

So I wonder how we ended up with one of the worse d-corps in the league after telling us it was better than the previous years. I wonder how we trade PK for Weber and then do nothing to work around the parameters of that trade. i wonder how we lose Radulov and Markov? I wonder how we end up trading Galchenyuk when his value is at a very low point and then we get an asset that doesn't address any of our needs. I wonder how we trade Sergachev for a winger and then put him in a role he can't fulfill. I wonder how we got to this point with Pacioretty where it's full of acrimony and bad blood. It obviously has nothing to do with M.B's modus operandi.

Again...I understand your point about the aggregate of all these decisions, being a pattern of bad decisions from Bergevin.

But I don't think your have a case that's worth arguing here, as it relates specifically to THIS transaction.

Now I guess we're not going to move off either of our positions, so agree to disagree.

I'm perfectly fine with how things worked out.

 

[Mdamico]

I agree with you the last two drafts look good but I want to point you to an old Northern Pikes' song. She Ain't Pretty She Just Looks That Way. We just need to go to the 2013 draft year and take stock. According to almost everyone we nailed it that year. 5 years later it turns out it was just an okay draft year. Basically I want to remind you don't count your chicks before they're hatched.

But let's put that thought aside for a moment. You say to look at the center quality coming up. Okay let's look at it. Except for Kotkaniemi none of those centers are projected to be #1 centers not even on the most optimistic Habs fan list. Poehling projected 2nd maybe 3rd. Hillis, McShane, Fonstad, Oloufson mostly 3rd line centers. If we're lucky lucky maybe some will becond #2. Some of them won't even make it to the NHL as 4th liners. The odds are against it. So we're left with one prospect whose ceiling may be #1 but many experts project as a very good #2. So even though we picked up lots of promising center prospects our #1 center position hasn't really been solidified. And if you think I'm being overly pessimistic I ask you to look at the last center prospect we picked at 3rd OV. Kotkaniemi could just as easily become a #1 center as he could simply become a lot of Cockamemie.

The thing is the last three drafts have been very solid in terms of value for the Habs. There's some immediate success in Sergachev and Mete. Poehling, Brook, Fleury will all be playing pro next year at the worst. The rest belongs to the Habs player development.

5 years ago the fans were complaining about the lack of talent and risk in the player selections. The Habs have gone for speed and talent over the last three years and it's already begun paying off.

I understand that everyone is upset of MB's decisions, but I love the way the Habs have been drafting the last 3-4 drafts. It will show slowly but surely (Juulsen, Lernout, Mete), and the rest of the job will fall on Bouchard and his team. I want to see what Bouchard can do with offensive players because he was instrumental in turning the games of talented players around (Dubois for example). We shall see I guess.

 

[Habs Icing]

And using your logic...

Habs should never trade down.

Did you go to Trump University to learn your debating skills? Where in all the posts I put up on this subject did I even hint that the Habs should never trade down? And in case you're still not clear let me spell it out for you.

If MB wanted to trade one of those many picks I had no problems with that move. But He should have discussed it with Timmins in the war room before the draft. Not make a half-assed decision on the spur of the moment and leave your scouting team drifting in the wind. The way he handled that process shows me the man is not a methodical planner. He works off the seat of his pants and way more often than not he lands on his face.

 

[417]

Did you go to Trump University to learn your debating skills?

Something like that...

Where in all the posts I put up on this subject did I even hint that the Habs should never trade down? And in case you're still not clear let me spell it out for you.

Oddly enough that was in response to you telling me that I think we shouldn't talk about fixing the issues.

Perhaps if you don't want people putting words into your mouth, you shouldn't do the same??

I learned that at Trump University.

If MB wanted to trade one of those many picks I had no problems with that move. But He should have discussed it with Timmins in the war room before the draft.

How do you know he didn't?

Because an edited video didn't capture it?

Weak ****...come with a better take man.

Not make a half-assed decision on the spur of the moment and leave your scouting team drifting in the wind. The way he handled that process shows me the man is not a methodical planner. He works off the seat of his pants and way more often than not he lands on his face.

SMH...I'm done with this conversation.

We got Hillis and an extra pick...enjoy the rest of your summer man lol come back when you actually have something tangible to complain about, shouldn't be too long.