OT: Bears & NFL Talk 84

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Kaners Bald Spot

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You can turn around an nfl team in 1 or 2 years with a good gm. Cant start until you fire pace though.
Possibly, but those kind of turnarounds aren't usually sustainable. They end up where the Bears are now. That's exactly what Pace did. He did take a roster devoid of talent and turn it around in 3 years, but he had to mortgage a lot of the future to get it done that quickly.

The problem is they have to get the bad cap off the books and getting Mack and Jackson off is hard.
 

madgoat33

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May 16, 2010
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Possibly, but those kind of turnarounds aren't usually sustainable. They end up where the Bears are now. That's exactly what Pace did. He did take a roster devoid of talent and turn it around in 3 years, but he had to mortgage a lot of the future to get it done that quickly.

The problem is they have to get the bad cap off the books and getting Mack and Jackson off is hard.
Theres no reason to believe mack cant be a productive player again. He was on a HOF trajectory. Jackson was a 1 year wonder, but with a good pass rush he'll probably still be able to get some interceptions. Its all contingent on them getting rid of pace though. Hes made some decent draft picks on defense but has given out some real bad contracts and made some other poor decisions with the roster. No reason to trust him at all, especially given his history of drafting offense.
 

Kaners Bald Spot

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Theres no reason to believe mack cant be a productive player again. He was on a HOF trajectory. Jackson was a 1 year wonder, but with a good pass rush he'll probably still be able to get some interceptions. Its all contingent on them getting rid of pace though. Hes made some decent draft picks on defense but has given out some real bad contracts and made some other poor decisions with the roster. No reason to trust him at all, especially given his history of drafting offense.
Father time and the wear and tear of playing football are undefeated. After 2 straight years of decline, I think it's a fool's errand to ever think that Mack will be anything close to what he was in 2018. 2019-20 is at best, the new normal, and at worst, the decline will continue.
 

clydesdale line

Connor BeJesus
Jan 10, 2012
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I honestly don't know what the Bears should do because they don't have their 1st rounder. If they did, it would be obvious to trade everyone they can.

I'm not sure Mack is movable because his contract is nowhere near his production. If Montgomery has a good year and you can get a 1st for him, do it. Obviously trade Robinson and Hicks. This is a rebuild at this point.

Roquan is 25 so you have to consider trading him too. By the time they're any good he'll be old and his game is reliant on speed.

You want a rebuild yet you want to trade a 24 year old RB whose best years are still ahead? I know RB don't have quite the shelf life as other positions but I just thought that was funny.
 

Illinihockey

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Possibly, but those kind of turnarounds aren't usually sustainable. They end up where the Bears are now. That's exactly what Pace did. He did take a roster devoid of talent and turn it around in 3 years, but he had to mortgage a lot of the future to get it done that quickly.

The problem is they have to get the bad cap off the books and getting Mack and Jackson off is hard.

Going to need to see some numbers to back up this claim.
 

RayP

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Jan 12, 2011
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No point in trading Montgomery. You’re not going to get ton for him even if you do and he could be an awesome piece for Fields to play with.
 

Kaners Bald Spot

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You want a rebuild yet you want to trade a 24 year old RB whose best years are still ahead? I know RB don't have quite the shelf life as other positions but I just thought that was funny.
The short shelf life of RBs is exactly why I want to trade him. Le'Veon Bell was awesome but was done by age 28. Montgomery takes a lot of punishment.
 

Kaners Bald Spot

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Going to need to see some numbers to back up this claim.
Usually the quick turnarounds are a product of the combination of an improved team and a weak schedule.

There's usually a correction the following year to .500 and that's where they stay until they either improve or get worse.

I don't have any data for this other than a gut feeling from years of watching the NFL.

If a team can win a division with 2 years in a row the chances of sustainability are higher.
 

ClydeLee

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Mar 23, 2012
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The short shelf life of RBs is exactly why I want to trade him. Le'Veon Bell was awesome but was done by age 28. Montgomery takes a lot of punishment.
You get consistently 7 staring years out of RBs. Like that's really consistent. Guys who start at 22 or 23 were why it was typically called 29/30 they ended. Guys who come out at 21 typically just end a year sooner. You get the rare battlers like Frank Gore who go deep into their 30s

But total rebuilds are not ideal ways and I simply don't get the desire to rebuild totally. Tear down the D but try to keep the O built up around the QB
 

Panzerspitze

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Mar 4, 2010
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Daniels is a guard, he said Tackle. The answer is Marc Columbo but he was injured with the Bears and had his success elsewhere. Otherwise you probably have to go back to Big Cat Williams.

Btw the interior OL is fine if not good. The tackles are atrocious.

Big Cat was undrafted FA and a DT originally, wasn't he? That's why I emphasized *drafted*.
 

Kaners Bald Spot

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You get consistently 7 staring years out of RBs. Like that's really consistent. Guys who start at 22 or 23 were why it was typically called 29/30 they ended. Guys who come out at 21 typically just end a year sooner. You get the rare battlers like Frank Gore who go deep into their 30s

But total rebuilds are not ideal ways and I simply don't get the desire to rebuild totally. Tear down the D but try to keep the O built up around the QB

There's not much there on offense.

I mean maybe Mooney, Montgomery, Daniels and Mustipher. Whitehair is getting up there.

I think Kmet doesn't have the athleticism to be more than average.

They don't have to rebuild completely if they don't want to.
 
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Illinihockey

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Usually the quick turnarounds are a product of the combination of an improved team and a weak schedule.

There's usually a correction the following year to .500 and that's where they stay until they either improve or get worse.

I don't have any data for this other than a gut feeling from years of watching the NFL.

If a team can win a division with 2 years in a row the chances of sustainability are higher.

The teams that are always good have hall of fame QBs. Most teams are bad, get good for a few years then go back to missing the playoffs.
 

Panzerspitze

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I thought he was a 1st round pick?

James O. Williams - Wikipedia
"Williams was signed as a free agent by Bill Tobin after the 1991 draft. He played defensive tackle on a 0–11 team at Cheyney State.
...
Williams played sparingly on defense in 1992 and was inactive for five straight games. The second-year tackle did not make the starting lineup following the drafting of 1991 second-rounder Chris Zorich. He was moved to offensive tackle midway through November, then to right tackle. Soon after, Williams relieved Keith Van Horne against Tampa in September, then was inactive for the final 12 games of the 1993 season. "
 
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