Bears and NFL Talk thread XLII: Bears lose to the hapless Lions

[Bubba88]

Pace builds his Team and if Pace wants to move on from Jeffrey or Bennett or Forte, who'd be left?

White pick was good and he was the BPA. Hindsight helps and if he would be on the field making catches your mind would change.

We needed a WR as much as all the other positions.

 

[blams]

Anquan boldin hofer? Huh? Tate, edelman, cruz? Seems like the giants have a new guy every other year whos the next big thing, is it possible that maybe thats a function of the system they have in place? Elite doesnt mean good numbers for 2-3 years either, elite is your calvin johnsons, larry fitzgeralds, randy mosses who are consistently among the best receivers in the league. And as i already pointed out, the bears have jeffery, bennet and forte already, for a team with a terrible defense and solid offense, seems like pretty bad asset management to draft a receiver top 10.

Edelman has been a beast for a couple of years. Cruz was unquestionably elite when the Giants won their second Super Bowl. Boldin is a BORDERLINE HOFer. Easily. Wouldn't be shocked if he got in eventually.

Tate was great for one season, he's the worst name by far I put on that list I'll admit.

Elite doesn't mean good for 10 years . A player can be elite at times, elite for 10 years means HOFer.

 

[Illinihockey]

Victor Cruz was elite but injuries has derailed his career.

 

[madgoat33]

Edelman has been a beast for a couple of years. Cruz was unquestionably elite when the Giants won their second Super Bowl. Boldin is a BORDERLINE HOFer. Easily. Wouldn't be shocked if he got in eventually.

Tate was great for one season, he's the worst name by far I put on that list I'll admit.

Elite doesn't mean good for 10 years . A player can be elite at times, elite for 10 years means HOFer.

No, elite means the pinnacle of a position. 2 years of good numbers doesn't make you elite. Cruz has been injured though. And anquan boldin is not a hofer. If all you do is compare his numbers to receivers who are already in, then it looks reasonable, but you have to compare him to his contemporaries since the game is so much different now. He's only been to 3 pro bowls and never really been considered a top 5 receiver.

 

[Eco]

The White pick wasn't awful. He's a AJ Green/Julio Jones type of prospect. He had an injury, but it hasn't changed his projection as a WR.

It was a very good pick and he was unquestionably the BPA. The only reason it is being questioned is because 1) Some can't understand why trading Marshall was the right move and 2) He got hurt so quickly.

How in the world do people know this? The kid has ONE GOOD YEAR IN COLLEGE. He did absolutely jack all the year before that so we are going on just year of production.

Julio played 3 years at Bama, showed great progress in his Sophmore year, but destroyed it in his junior before leaving Bama.

AJ Green has 3 years of productivity before doing so.

Last year we had Marshall and Alshon, yet we still were bad enough we got the 7th overall pick, that tells me that WR isn't the problem with this team.

I would have picked Trae Waynes from MSU. For the second pick I would have traded with the Giants, ship off Jared Allen to them for switching picks, and pick up Landon Collins.

That would cover us in terms of getting a pass stop safety that is explosive (Collins), and a shut down Corner (Waynes). It's no secret this defense sucks, we need more emphasis on our defense while we have this high draft picks.

 

[Illinihockey]

How in the world do people know this? The kid has ONE GOOD YEAR IN COLLEGE. He did absolutely jack all the year before that so we are going on just year of production.

Julio played 3 years at Bama, showed great progress in his Sophmore year, but destroyed it in his junior before leaving Bama.

AJ Green has 3 years of productivity before doing so.

Julio Jones

Sophomore - 43 catches, 596 yards 4 TD's
Junior - 78 catches, 1133 yards 7 TD's

Kevin White

Junior - 35 catches 507 yards 5 TD's
Senior - 109 catches 1447 yards 10 TD's

AJ Green even in his best season didn't even approach what Jones and White did in their final years.

 

[blams]

How in the world do people know this? The kid has ONE GOOD YEAR IN COLLEGE. He did absolutely jack all the year before that so we are going on just year of production.

Julio played 3 years at Bama, showed great progress in his Sophmore year, but destroyed it in his junior before leaving Bama.

AJ Green has 3 years of productivity before doing so.

Last year we had Marshall and Alshon, yet we still were bad enough we got the 7th overall pick, that tells me that WR isn't the problem with this team.

I would have picked Trae Waynes from MSU. For the second pick I would have traded with the Giants, ship off Jared Allen to them for switching picks, and pick up Landon Collins.

That would cover us in terms of getting a pass stop safety that is explosive (Collins), and a shut down Corner (Waynes). It's no secret this defense sucks, we need more emphasis on our defense while we have this high draft picks.

We know that offense was awesome. They quit on the coach early in the year (likely a 8-8 non-playoff team due to the awful defense)

Trestman didn't know how to run an NFL offense.

 

[blams]

No, elite means the pinnacle of a position. 2 years of good numbers doesn't make you elite. Cruz has been injured though. And anquan boldin is not a hofer. If all you do is compare his numbers to receivers who are already in, then it looks reasonable, but you have to compare him to his contemporaries since the game is so much different now. He's only been to 3 pro bowls and never really been considered a top 5 receiver.

I said borderline hall of famer, which he is.

I wouldn't be surprised if he got in, there are plenty of HOFers that were never top 2 or 3 in their position.

Yes, that would mean you were elite for those 2 seasons. Ranking of abliity is a year by year thing.

 

[Eco]

Julio Jones

Sophomore - 43 catches, 596 yards 4 TD's
Junior - 78 catches, 1133 yards 7 TD's

Kevin White

Junior - 35 catches 507 yards 5 TD's
Senior - 109 catches 1447 yards 10 TD's

AJ Green even in his best season didn't even approach what Jones and White did in their final years.

Eye test. I have a good friend that is from WV, so I watched a good bit of White plus his game against Bama in the Dome.

You could tell Julio and AJ were going to be stars. White is special, but he's not what the Bears needed.

We know that offense was awesome. They quit on the coach early in the year (likely a 8-8 non-playoff team due to the awful defense)

Trestman didn't know how to run an NFL offense.

Offense was awesome, and the reason we lost so many games was because our defense was horrendous.

That's why I was upset when we didn't spend the 2015 draft to absolutely load up on defense.

Hell, I would've draft Randy Gregory, anybody to bring some damn attitude to this defense.

 

[Illinihockey]

Eye test. I have a good friend that is from WV, so I watched a good bit of White plus his game against Bama in the Dome.

You could tell Julio and AJ were going to be stars. White is special, but he's not what the Bears needed.

So despite the fact that every draft prognosticator had White as a top 10 and often a top 5 pick, you know better because you have a friend that is from West Virginia. Can't argue with that.

By the way against Bama, White put up 9 catches for 143 yards and a touchdown. I can see why you weren't impressed.

 

[Eco]

So despite the fact that every draft prognosticator had White as a top 10 and often a top 5 pick, you know better because you have a friend that is from West Virginia. Can't argue with that.

By the way against Bama, White put up 9 catches for 143 yards and a touchdown. I can see why you weren't impressed.

Where did I saw he wasn't talented? I said I wanted the Bears to load up on defense, and worry less about receivers. There was talent there that we could have taken, and I think it would have put us in a better position.

I personally was surprised that all the experts had us taking him. I just would have liked to see the Bears load up on Defense while figuring out what we are going to do, if anything, with Cutler.

 

[blams]

Where did I saw he wasn't talented? I said I wanted the Bears to load up on defense, and worry less about receivers. There was talent there that we could have taken, and I think it would have put us in a better position.

I personally was surprised that all the experts had us taking him. I just would have liked to see the Bears load up on Defense while figuring out what we are going to do, if anything, with Cutler.

The issue you're looking at here is BPA. You have to take BPA. Not need.

It is always a bad idea, except for very rare exceptions like a franchise QB that you may overdraft by a pick or 2.

 

[Eco]

The issue you're looking at here is BPA. You have to take BPA. Not need.

It is always a bad idea, except for very rare exceptions like a franchise QB that you may overdraft by a pick or 2.

I don't know..I feel like you need to draft what you need. If the BPA is a guy who doesn't fit your system, or in this case your needs, then I'd draft someone else OR try and move my pick.

I really wanted us to get Dante Fowler, but his price tag was too high and his injury was just hard to even watch.

Listen, we got White and I hope he pans out blows the doors down, I just wanted us to focus on defense. Alshon/Eddie duo is good enough for me.

 

[Illinihockey]

I don't know..I feel like you need to draft what you need. If the BPA is a guy who doesn't fit your system, or in this case your needs, then I'd draft someone else

This is what bad teams do. Its exactly what Jerry Angelo did for years.

 

[Sarava]

This is what bad teams do. Its exactly what Jerry Angelo did for years.

Actually no it's not. Jerry Angelo was just bad at drafting. And he was noted for ignoring glaring needs, not reaching for them.

 

[Eco]

This is what bad teams do. Its exactly what Jerry Angelo did for years.

I'm not sure if we had gone Beasley it would have been a big talent drop off from White.

BPA was difficult last year as their isn't a huge difference between the White's & Beasleys.

If we'd had taken Vic, it would have been a better choice for needs while not really compromising the BPA idea.

 

[Sarava]

I wonder if they tried to move up or not? Seems like the Bears had the misfortune of having the first pick after the dropoff.

 

[Eco]

I wonder if they tried to move up or not? Seems like the Bears had the misfortune of having the first pick after the dropoff.

Very true. Very unlucky on how it all played out.

 

[madgoat33]

I wonder if they tried to move up or not? Seems like the Bears had the misfortune of having the first pick after the dropoff.

When you're where the bears are, if the alleged bpa with a top 10pick is a receiver, probably a good idea to try to move down and grab another pick. So many holes to fill seems like more picks is what you need.

 

[Bubba88]

Bears clearly needed a WR. White was the best left. Most said that there are 6 guys in the Draft and after that,there is a drop off

 

[Eco]

Bears clearly needed a WR. White was the best left. Most said that there are 6 guys in the Draft and after that,there is a drop off

I find that argument hard to believe when you still have serious QB issues. A WR is only as good as their QB, and ours goes through serious periods where he throws to the other team.

 

[Sarava]

WR was a need, but way down the list.

 

[madgoat33]

WR was a need, but way down the list.

yup, it was a need, after every defensive position, OL, and very likely RB given forte's contract situation.

 

[blams]

yup, it was a need, after every defensive position, OL, and very likely RB given forte's contract situation.

RB isn't important enough to list about WR.




White wasn't really a dropoff. He was one of those " Oh ****, you have to take him since he dropped there" kind of guys.

Leonard Williams was who I wanted but I think White may have even been picked over him, that's how high is ceiling is.

 

[madgoat33]

RB isn't important enough to list about WR.




White wasn't really a dropoff. He was one of those " Oh ****, you have to take him since he dropped there" kind of guys.

Leonard Williams was who I wanted but I think White may have even been picked over him, that's how high is ceiling is.

Neither position is very important, and I'm almost diametrically opposed to ever taking a RB with a top 10 pick, but I was just listing the needs of the team, not saying they should have taken a rb with that pick.