Bears and NFL Talk Thread LIV: Khalil Mack's a Bear!

[ChiHawks10]

I would say the depleted Bears D put up a valiant effort in face of Grossman and coaching vs one of the best offenses in NFL and put Bears in position to easily win

If our QB and coaches were not disasters

Again, I wasn't blaming the D. I blamed 70% coaches, 20% Grossman, and 10% injuries.

 

[AmericanDream]

Do you recall the fact Bears had Jake Plummer wanting to come to Chicago but passed on him that summer to sign Kordell Steward and draft a QB instead

Jake Plummer signing as FA = No Grossman and things again could have been much different

Jake was far more talented then Stewart but Bears wanted to go cheap and signed Stewart and then threw away a 1st round pick on Grossman

so again, why is Rodgers being thrown in here as if he has anything to do with Grossman and the Bears?? Bears needed a QB at that time, waiting until 05 to get Rodgers with the defense we had I am just not following.

 

[b1e9a8r5s]

A lot of teams passed on Rodgers, but the fact that we had drafted Grossman two years earlier was the reason the Bears chose not to accept a present that was absolutely presented to them despite it still being a position of need. And regardless of other teams passing as well, Rodgers very particularly clownpounded us regularly and for a long while as a direct result of that decision, so it's a double whammy for the Bears. Add Rodgers to the team and suddenly you have a competent QB in the picture when the Bears D is elite as hell and we have the draft picks that we didn't spend on Cutler to keep the team going.

And the difference between Brady and Rodgers is that essentially nobody projected Brady to be great while literally everybody was projecting Rodgers as essentially a step or two below a Luck-level lock. He was essentially like Zetterberg, a guy that appeared to have a low ceiling and then holy **** a hall of famer out of nowhere. There wasn't a prospect alive that projected that one, nor was there one that projected anything remotely close to what Brady developed into.

We are having this discussion with regards to Grossman being a bust. I don't think it's "fair" to use Rodgers non selection 2 years later to bolster the Grossman is a bust case. It's too far removed. If anything, passing on Rodgers would bolster the Benson bust case as they were at least in the same draft.

No argument on the greatness of Rodgers or what could have been.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

so again, why is Rodgers being thrown in here as if he has anything to do with Grossman and the Bears?? Bears needed a QB at that time, waiting until 05 to get Rodgers with the defense we had I am just not following.

Bears didn't need QB if they signed Plummer instead of Stewart/Grossman plan

And guess what signing Plummer in 03 could have lead to Rodgers in 05

God damn Bears really botched QB situation in offseason of 03 and it proved extremely costly

 

[ChiHawks10]

I never said we shouldn't have drafted Grossman, I'm not using hindsight by that much. I am absolutely saying that the fact that we had Grossman should not have remotely precluded consideration of picking up Rodgers when he was shockingly available to us.

I'm so confused. Alex Smith went 1OA. The Bears took Benson at #4OA. Rodgers dropped to 24th... I'm confused as to how Rodgers was viewed as a lock. Yeah, he was the second QB off the board, but he went 24th OA, one pick in front of Jason Campbell, and I'm pretty sure I remember the Bears having their mind made up on CB because of Grossman being "the guy". They were never going to take Rodgers.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

Rodgers slipped all the way down to 24th... I don't remember him being projected as a lock.

Essentially everybody was astonished that he was slipping as much as he was as it was happening. Maybe lock was the wrong word to use, but he was absolutely being amped up as an obvious steal for whoever got him as the picks kept coming in and the obvious heir apparent talking point was the norm the second the Packers lander him.

 

[AmericanDream]

You mean the 4 yd pass setup when Thomas Jones ran ball 52 yds to the Colts 5?

Yeah amazing job by Rex carrying offense on that drive

What 65 yard bomb to WR are you talking about?

Rex did throw a 56 yd TD to Colts CB Kelvin Hayden in 4th qtr

I honestly have no clue what you are talking about.

You are ignoring or discrediting an actual TD pass...in the red zone...this is a new low for you.

I am talking about a pretend 65 yard bomb that any QB tossed to their WR and got them to the 5 yard line - according to your logic, we shouldn't credit the running back for getting in the end zone since the QB/WR did the big play prior???? lol, wtf?????

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

I'm so confused. Alex Smith went 1OA. The Bears took Benson at #4OA. Rodgers dropped to 24th... I'm confused as to how Rodgers was viewed as a lock. Yeah, he was the second QB off the board, but he went 24th OA, one pick in front of Jason Campbell, and I'm pretty sure I remember the Bears having their mind made up on CB because of Grossman being "the guy".

Rodgers was supposed to be lock for top 5 selection

That is why his drop was so stunning and became must see TV

 

[RayP]

I never said we shouldn't have drafted Grossman, I'm not using hindsight by that much. I am absolutely saying that the fact that we had Grossman should not have remotely precluded consideration of picking up Rodgers when he was shockingly available to us.

The organization thought Rex had upside at that point still, they weren’t just going to throw the towel in on him because some other QB fell in the draft when they had other needs.

 

[ChiHawks10]

Rodgers was supposed to be lock for top 5 selection

That is why his drop was so stunning and became must see TV

I didn't remember that. Although I was right around 21 years old at the time, and not paying attention to the NFL and draft as much as I have as I've gotten older, and spending a lot of time out at the bars lol.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

so again, why is Rodgers being thrown in here as if he has anything to do with Grossman and the Bears?? Bears needed a QB at that time, waiting until 05 to get Rodgers with the defense we had I am just not following.

Because the Bears decided to not spend a first on a QB because they had recently used a first on a different QB and weren't willing to pull the plug on that when an obvious upgrade presented itself. And the QB that they passed on then proceeded to spend his career kicking our butts at almost every opportunity.

I'm so confused. Alex Smith went 1OA. The Bears took Benson at #4OA. Rodgers dropped to 24th... I'm confused as to how Rodgers was viewed as a lock. Yeah, he was the second QB off the board, but he went 24th OA, one pick in front of Jason Campbell, and I'm pretty sure I remember the Bears having their mind made up on CB because of Grossman being "the guy".

Rodgers was absolutely projected as a possible first overall and regardless at least a top two QB in the draft, literally everybody was astonished he was sliding as the first round passed.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

I honestly have no clue what you are talking about.

You are ignoring or discrediting an actual TD pass...in the red zone...this is a new low for you.

I am talking about a pretend 65 yard bomb that any QB tossed to their WR and got them to the 5 yard line - according to your logic, we shouldn't credit the running back for getting in the end zone since the QB/WR did the big play prior???? lol, wtf?????

WTF did Rex do on drive?

He threw a ball to wide open Muhammad after Jones ran it to the 5 (And D had intercepted it on Colts drive before)

Rex deserves no f***ing credit for that TD. Sorry but its no different then worthless Chester Taylor stealing Forte TD's when he would do all the work to get them inside 5 only for coaches to give Taylor (Or Barber , etc) the ball

Rex deserve no credit or anything remotely resembling it

I guess your going to say the pass that should have been easy INT vs Saints that Berrien saved after Fred Thomas failed miserably in coverage was some amazing throw only a handful of QB's could do?

 

[b1e9a8r5s]

Bears didn't need QB if they signed Plummer instead of Stewart/Grossman plan

And guess what signing Plummer in 03 could have lead to Rodgers in 05

God damn Bears really botched QB situation in offseason of 03 and it proved extremely costly

You love counter factuals because it allows you to say whatever you want to make your point. The Bears should have signed Plummer because they'd be able to draft Rodgers 2 years later? That's absurd.

 

[RayP]

Can we nuke the last few ages? JFC.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

The organization thought Rex had upside at that point still, they weren’t just going to throw the towel in on him because some other QB fell in the draft when they had other needs.

Yeah, and that poor decision has haunted the Bears for a decade now. They overvalued a previously acquired asset to the point that they ignored a position of need for other positions of need rather than going for the best player available and upgrading.

 

[AmericanDream]

I never said we shouldn't have drafted Grossman, I'm not using hindsight by that much. I am absolutely saying that the fact that we had Grossman should not have remotely precluded consideration of picking up Rodgers when he was shockingly available to us.

Well, if we took a QB in the first round in 03, are we really looking for a QB in the first round in 05?? Now Rodgers worked out and is a stud, but if we did that, and at the time used 2 first round picks in 2 years on QBs...not sure how that would look at all, or if we were even looking at QBs at all..Grossman or Plummer as BWC wanted, we aren't looking at a QB in 05 especially not in the first round.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

No they should have signed Plummer because he was top UFA and wanted to come to Chicago

Bears instead wanted a cheap #1 in Stewart and decided to draft Grossman instead

Plummer could have been good for Bears and if he didn't work out the Bears would have been set in 2005 to draft a QB

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

Can we nuke the last few ages? JFC.

I wish we could nuke the McCaskey era entirely after 85

 

[RayP]

Yeah, and that poor decision has haunted the Bears for a decade now. They overvalued a previously acquired asset to the point that they ignored a position of need for other positions of need rather than going for the best player available and upgrading.

No, it wasn’t a poor decision. Just stop.

It would have been completely stupid to draft Rodgers for the Bears there given the way the team was built at the time.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

Well, if we took a QB in the first round in 03, are we really looking for a QB in the first round in 05?? Now Rodgers worked out and is a stud, but if we did that, and at the time used 2 first round picks in 2 years on QBs...not sure how that would look at all, or if we were even looking at QBs at all..Grossman or Plummer as BWC wanted, we aren't looking at a QB in 05 especially not in the first round.

No I and most fans wanted Plummer in 03 FA. If we get Plummer we don't draft a QB

So it again is moment that Bears made a choice that ended up going badly and hurting organization longterm

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

No, it wasn’t a poor decision. Just stop.

It would have been completely stupid to draft Rodgers for the Bears there given the way the team was built at the time.

How so?

It could be argued Bears should have been player for Jay Cutler in 06 draft

Imagine Jay acquired by Bears in 06 by surrendering a future 1st such as 08 (Which would have been lower cost then we ultimately paid for him)

Jay with that D and ST = SB

 

[AmericanDream]

WTF did Rex do on drive?

He threw a ball to wide open Muhammad after Jones ran it to the 5 (And D had intercepted it on Colts drive before)

Rex deserves no ****ing credit for that TD. Sorry but its no different then worthless Chester Taylor stealing Forte TD's when he would do all the work to get them inside 5 only for coaches to give Taylor (Or Barber , etc) the ball

Rex deserve no credit or anything remotely resembling it

I guess your going to say the pass that should have been easy INT vs Saints that Berrien saved after Fred Thomas failed miserably in coverage was some amazing throw only a handful of QB's could do?

take away his TD, just give it to Jones...FFS man, you are beyond brutal here...

 

[RayP]

How so?

It could be argued Bears should have been player for Jay Cutler in 06 draft

Imagine Jay acquired by Bears in 06 by surrendering a future 1st such as 08 (Which would have been lower cost then we ultimately paid for him)

Jay with that D and ST = SB

I don’t want to have to picture Jay Cutler in a Bears uniform any more than I already have to.

 

[b1e9a8r5s]

Rodgers sliding that far was a surprise, no argument. It's worth pointing out that Rex had 6 starts in 2 years because of injuries. Obviously in hindsight its easy to see that its a mistake, but I can't really fault them for it.

Let's say that in 4 years, Trubisky is out of the league and Josh Rosen (taken #10 this year) is a MVP candidate. You can look back and say man the Bears dropped the ball on that, but there was no way they were going to take Rosen this year after having invested in Trubisky. In that scenario, call Trubisky a bust and rip Pace for taking him. However, I wouldn't fault him for passing on Rosen.

 

[RayP]

Rodgers sliding that far was a surprise, no argument. It's worth pointing out that Rex had 6 starts in 2 years because of injuries. Obviously in hindsight its easy to see that its a mistake, but I can't really fault them for it.

Let's say that in 4 years, Trubisky is out of the league and Josh Rosen (taken #10 this year) is a MVP candidate. You can look back and say man the Bears dropped the ball on that, but there was no way they were going to take Rosen this year after having invested in Trubisky. In that scenario, call Trubisky a bust and rip Pace for taking him. However, I wouldn't fault him for passing on Rosen.

How many games did he miss his rookie year due to injury? Was it even that many? I’m don’t remember him being pegged to start week 1.