Salary Cap: Be a GM Mode | Is it October yet?

[Speaking Moistly]

I thought Pouliot was like 6'0" and 208 lbs, that's what he's listed at. Pouliot was a legitimately good prospect, while he did play for a powerhouse team he was a good prospect. He was a legitimately good prospect until last season.

I think if you assume Butcher is a very lite beer version of Pouliot, you can make that comparison. I think Pouliot's issue is more of a "tools but no toolbox" problem, I don't think it's the same way with Butcher.

That's what he's listed at and it's probably close. He's not huge but he's not undersized.

I think being faster would help with the toolbox problem but so would hustling.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I have a friend in New Hampshire that follows NCAA closely given how close he is to a lot of great teams. He went to Dartmouth and although he loves Tanner Glass because he knows him, I trust his judgement. He says Butcher winning over Mike Vecchioni was a shame. He though ZAR deserved it more over Butcher. He had him at 6th-7th out of the finalists.

Cool if we get him because free prospects are fun and it's summer and there's nothing else to do...but my buddy says zero loss if you don't get him. He doubts he will play a single nhl game.

I usually find it weird when defensemen win the Hobey Baker in the first place, because in every season where a defenseman wins the Hobey Baker, there's always at least 1 forward who puts up an asinine amount of points and a defenseman that puts up a similar amount of points. Like look at Leopold from 2002, he had a 79 point player on his own team (Leopold had 20 goals and 48 points in 44 games, he had an excellent season completely). Gilroy in 2009 was even worse than that and I think that's probably Butcher's best case scenario, he only had 37 points in 45 games as a 24 year old (leading scorer on his team was Collin Wilson, with 55 points in 45 games at age 18, Wilson was also 2nd in the NCAA).

I think Carle in 2006 was completely legit though, he was tied for the team lead in points with Paul Statsny with 53 points in 39 games and the leading scorer in the NCAA that year only had 63 points. I just don't understand why guys like Butcher and Gilroy won the Hobey Baker when guys like Schultz (44 points in 37 games in his last year in college) didn't win, although Schultz was nominated multiple times. It seems really arbitrary who wins it, some years a defenseman with a .8 PPG can win the Hobey Baker over a 65 point forward, but other years a 1.2 PPG loses to a 55 point forward.

The comparison I keep seeing for Butcher is him having the upside of Clendening, which I actually think is a fantastic comparison for him.

That's what he's listed at and it's probably close. He's not huge but he's not undersized.

I think being faster would help with the toolbox problem but so would hustling.

Pouliot plays the game in slow motion, which I think is also a mental issue. I don't think he'd have skating issues if he'd, you know, play the game at game speed.

 

[Peat]

Geez if I didn't know any better, I'd say some of you are scouts that have watched Butcher extensively. It's not a big deal if the Pens miss out on signing a free prospect, but I find it funny how some are talking down on the kid before he even steps on the ice for a professional game.

But you do know better because we're at pains to stress this is coming from what we're reading elsewhere, right? Its no less legit than the "wouldn't it be great to get him, he'd be our number 8 dman right away" posters and a good antidote to them (and vice versa).

No one knows precisely what we'd be getting if we got him - even the best scouts couldn't be exactly sure where he'd fit in - but the Ethan Prow comparison is a fair enough one that people should be cooling their jets.

Although the fact that the team do want him - and its not like we're in desperate need of AHL dmen - is decent evidence for him being at least something.

 

[Pens x]

But you do know better because we're at pains to stress this is coming from what we're reading elsewhere, right? Its no less legit than the "wouldn't it be great to get him, he'd be our number 8 dman right away" posters and a good antidote to them (and vice versa).

Huh?

 

[Allie Kitsune]

A free D-Man is a free D-Man.

If he wants to come here and he can contribute in some way, more power to him.

But no point in building up expectations around A) him signing here, or B) making an impact.

 

[cheesedanish87]

Mackey was asked for a name yesterday for 3rd line center, he said Zemgus Girgensons.

I would be good with him, hes a good 2 way center that has trouble finishing his opportunities.

I think him coming to pgh on a better team with better line mates would really help him.

If you look at it from Buffalo's point of view it would make sense that he would be expendable, they got Eichel ROR Reinhart and Larsson at center, Grigs can play wing, but hes better at center.

 

[Shady Machine]

But you do know better because we're at pains to stress this is coming from what we're reading elsewhere, right? Its no less legit than the "wouldn't it be great to get him, he'd be our number 8 dman right away" posters and a good antidote to them (and vice versa).

No one knows precisely what we'd be getting if we got him - even the best scouts couldn't be exactly sure where he'd fit in - but the Ethan Prow comparison is a fair enough one that people should be cooling their jets.

Although the fact that the team do want him - and its not like we're in desperate need of AHL dmen - is decent evidence for him being at least something.

I don't know what your first sentence means.

Anyway, it's not a big deal. I just find it funny how some people react when a player chooses to sign on another team. "Dude sucks anyway"

 

[Pens x]

I mean it's always nice to sign a free prospect but it's not like this guy is highly prized. He fits a need and he is free. We don't have a #1 elite dman and our best dman is constantly injured. Plus the whole center situation. This team has far more pressing needs than Butcher.

 

[Jenkins]

We don't have a number #1 elite D man?

 

[Empoleon8771]

Mackey was asked for a name yesterday for 3rd line center, he said Zemgus Girgensons.

I would be good with him, hes a good 2 way center that has trouble finishing his opportunities.

I think him coming to pgh on a better team with better line mates would really help him.

If you look at it from Buffalo's point of view it would make sense that he would be expendable, they got Eichel ROR Reinhart and Larsson at center, Grigs can play wing, but hes better at center.

Girgensons makes a lot of sense for the Penguins to target. The Sabres are weak at LD and on LW, and the Penguins have a young expendable asset at each of those positions that would be fair value straight up for Girgensons (Wilson and Pouliot). Girgensons is currently slotted at LW for the Sabres, so he's not even needed at center. Girgensons is coming off 2 poor seasons in a row after being ruined by Disco Dumb-ass, so he could definitely use a change of scenery.

I don't know what your first sentence means.

Anyway, it's not a big deal. I just find it funny how some people react when a player chooses to sign on another team. "Dude sucks anyway"

I've been saying he's not very good for a while now though. Like that wasn't something new. Idk about anyone else though, but I've been pretty consistent with saying his only big attribute was being free.

 

[Pens x]

We don't have a number #1 elite D man?

No. Obviously it doesn't matter since they've won back to back cups without it. But I just don't think Tanger is in that class anymore. He's been seriously injured every season since 2011. I just don't see a huge need for Butcher.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Letang being injury prone doesn't make him a worse defenseman than he is. He was voted HF's 8th best defenseman, he's absolutely an elite defenseman.

 

[Pens x]

Letang being injury prone doesn't make him a worse defenseman than he is. He was voted HF's 8th best defenseman, he's absolutely an elite defenseman.

I don't really care what HF voted. I'm just saying he's not the same Tanger of yesterday. He doesn't control the play anymore. He is still a solid dman but nowhere near as good as he once was. That's all.

 

[Jenkins]

I don't really care what HF voted. I'm just saying he's not the same Tanger of yesterday. He doesn't control the play anymore. He is still a solid dman but nowhere near as good as he once was. That's all.

I think he's better under Sully.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I don't really care what HF voted. I'm just saying he's not the same Tanger of yesterday. He doesn't control the play anymore. He is still a solid dman but nowhere near as good as he once was. That's all.

But Letang at his best would likely have won a Norris if he would have stayed healthy. Saying he isn't as good as he once was, which I don't necessarily even agree with in the first place (he was 4th in Norris voting in 15-16 and would have been a finalist if he hadn't missed 11 games, since he was only 30 votes behind 3rd place), doesn't make him not elite anymore.

 

[Peat]

I don't know what your first sentence means.

Anyway, it's not a big deal. I just find it funny how some people react when a player chooses to sign on another team. "Dude sucks anyway"

I'm saying that most of the people talking down Butcher are making it clear they're going on second hand reports.

And people have been downtalking Butcher from the moment his name has been mentioned. Someone asked a question about him, they got opinions. This isn't "Well obviously she's a lesbian then" territory.

 

[Peat]

I think he's better under Sully.

He's been scoring at a point per game pace since Sully got here.

 

[Pens x]

But Letang at his best would likely have won a Norris if he would have stayed healthy. Saying he isn't as good as he once was, which I don't necessarily even agree with in the first place (he was 4th in Norris voting in 15-16 and would have been a finalist if he hadn't missed 11 games, since he was only 30 votes behind 3rd place), doesn't make him not elite anymore.

The Norris winner doesn't mean the best overall dman, it oftentimes represents who scored the most points. Is Dumoulin the 114th best dman in the league since that is his ranking by points scored by dman this year? Off topic, Dumo is the 71st highest paid dman in the league.

 

[Gurglesons]

No. Obviously it doesn't matter since they've won back to back cups without it. But I just don't think Tanger is in that class anymore. He's been seriously injured every season since 2011. I just don't see a huge need for Butcher.

He put up 34 points in 41 games literally last year.

The year before he was a dark horse Conn candidate and in my opinion should've won it.

 

[madinsomniac]

Ill never get the need for people to undervalue Letang.... is he the best dman in the nhl... no... bit he os extremely good in every aspect and his biggest flaws probably are on the pp... which is amazing with his scoring totals... his d gets criminally underrated...

 

[Pens17]

Girgensons makes a lot of sense for the Penguins to target. The Sabres are weak at LD and on LW, and the Penguins have a young expendable asset at each of those positions that would be fair value straight up for Girgensons (Wilson and Pouliot). Girgensons is currently slotted at LW for the Sabres, so he's not even needed at center. Girgensons is coming off 2 poor seasons in a row after being ruined by Disco Dumb-ass, so he could definitely use a change of scenery.

Excellent point.

If anyone has untapped potential secondary to "ineffective coaching" (politically correctly stated), Girgensons the player. Additionally, GMJR appears to be nicely enabled in successfully ferreting out reclamation projects. Furthermore, at 1.6 million for 2-years, Girg is comfortably within JR's budget perspective.

 

[Pens x]

Any word on a third line center??

 

[Rufus]

The Norris winner doesn't mean the best overall dman, it oftentimes represents who scored the most points. Is Dumoulin the 114th best dman in the league since that is his ranking by points scored by dman this year? Off topic, Dumo is the 71st highest paid dman in the league.

Usually the highest point getting defenseman is one of the best defenseman overall. Letang can be elite without being the best defenseman in the league. The Pens winning the cup without him isn't an indictment on him.

 

[madinsomniac]

Any word on a third line center??

Its unlikely at this point anything changes until teams get into camp and statuses are shuffled...

Again some team will have someone push a vet off the roster or a guy not mesh with a coach and there will be some change in the market...

Also the pens will get a better feel for where their own prospects are... that lets them make a more informed deal on what they offer....

You wait this long it makes no sense to force something now... let it happen organically

 

[Shaffer]