Barzal vs. Matthews

[WetcoastOrca]

Matthews and it won't be close going forward. He is a generational talent and he's 3+ inches taller, 30lbs heavier. Haven't seen a centre this good in every aspect of the game score goals like he does in a long long time.

Generational?
Are we going to have one of those every couple of years now?
Let’s tone down the hype machine.

 

[Doyoulikeapples*]

I take Matthews too... but can we stop with the generational talent please? Matthews isn't close to ''generational''. This word is thrown a whole lot more than it should. Tremendous young player though.

The tsn panel literally said this about him yesterday. Before you go off with the ol “what do they know” nonsense. I take their word over some random individuals on a hockey forum.

 

[Future]

as of always actually. It was covered multiple times throughout last season how Barzal was helping Tavares.

but of course, keep playing victim like all leafs fans do.
If Matthews put up 85 points in his rookie year, we'd never hear the end of it.

Matthews did one better and finished second in the league in goals as a rookie coming straight out of the draft as well as led his team as 'the guy' from last place to the playoffs.

Literally the last player to do what Matthews did as an U20 rookie, in terms of goal-scoring, was Mario Lemieux.

Further, when was the last time a first overall pick led his team from last placed to the playoffs in his rookie year?

 

[Leafs at Knight]

Barzal the better playmaker, Matthews the better goal scorer.

Yea and who cares about playing a 200 foot game against top competition.

 

[Laineux]

Matthews did one better and finished second in the league in goals as a rookie coming straight out of the draft as well as led his team as 'the guy' from last place to the playoffs.

Literally the last player to do what Matthews did as an U20 rookie, in terms of goal-scoring, was Mario Lemieux.

Further, when was the last time a first overall pick led his team from last placed to the playoffs in his rookie year?

And Patrik Laine was 18 and had a higher goals per game average than Matthews as a rookie. Continued with a 2nd place finish as a 19-year-old.

He's not generational. Matthews is not generational.

The way to enter that discussion is at the bare minimum to be the best player (or very close) in the league during a season.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Yea and who cares about playing a 200 foot game against top competition.

Babcock used Kadri as his match-up center most of the time he had a chance to. So let's not make it sound like Matthews is Bergeron/Kopitar where Babcock wants him out there every time the other team's best line is out there.

 

[LeafGrief]

Barzal is great, but this is clearly Matthews. If Auston hadn't been hurt for twenty games last year, he would have had a 40+ goal, 80+ point season and this poll wouldn't exist.

Of course it would exist. Any player +/- 15 points is compared to Matthews.

Barzal is phenomenal and is absolutely one of the best young centres the league has seen in years. He is a lock to be a high end #1C in the league for a decade. But this is still Matthews. Matthews scores more goals, more at ES, plays against tougher competition, and has the better two-way game. And he's younger lol.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Barzal is great, but this is clearly Matthews. If Auston hadn't been hurt for twenty games last year, he would have had a 40+ goal, 80+ point season and this poll wouldn't exist.

If. If. If.
The fact is Barzal did get 85 points as a rookie. The most since Malkin.
Matthews didn’t hit close to that last year.
Obviously the injury played into that but until he actually reaches that level for a full season this is all conjecture.

 

[Future]

And Patrik Laine was 18 and had a higher goals per game average than Matthews as a rookie. Continued with a 2nd place finish as a 19-year-old.

He's not generational. Matthews is not generational.

The way to enter that discussion is at the bare minimum to be the best player (or very close) in the league during a season.

What I mean by generational is that he's just an extremely rare talent. Maybe his point totals haven't been off the charts good yet like McDavid. However, like I said, he scored 40 & finished 2nd in goals as a rookie number 1 centre straight out of the draft and led the last place team to the playoffs. Other than his accomplishments, individually, centre's with his size, power, skill, two-way and scoring ability are extremely rare. A very unique player and the second best young player in the league next to McDavid.

 

[Laineux]

What I mean by generational is that he's just an extremely rare talent. Maybe his point totals haven't been off the charts good yet like McDavid. However, like I said, he scored 40 & finished 2nd in goals as a rookie number 1 centre straight out of the draft and led the last place team to the playoffs. Other than his accomplishments, individually, centre's with his size, power, skill, two-way and scoring ability are extremely rare.

That I have no problem with. I won't be surprised if Matthews establishes himself in the tier of high end franchise centers like Forsberg, Sakic or Malkin.

 

[LGB51]

Yea and who cares about playing a 200 foot game against top competition.

Exactly.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

What I mean by generational is that he's just an extremely rare talent. Maybe his point totals haven't been off the charts good yet like McDavid. However, like I said, he scored 40 & finished 2nd in goals as a rookie number 1 centre straight out of the draft and led the last place team to the playoffs. Other than his accomplishments, individually, centre's with his size, power, skill, two-way and scoring ability are extremely rare. A very unique player and the second best young player in the league next to McDavid.

Well I could certainly see him becoming a top three forward in the NHL if all goes well.
I’d like to see the term generational outlawed until a player has at least won a couple of Hart’s.
It does too much of a disservice to some great players of the past to use the term to be the equivalent of elite.

 

[Jot]

Its all speculation.

I think Matthews will be the better center. He can matchup up against anyone.

 

[LGB51]

Its all speculation.

I think Matthews will be the better center. He can matchup up against anyone.

Next season will show how good Barzal really is without JT around anymore he will have a much bigger role.

 

[34]

Matthews AINEC.

Matthews>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Barzal

 

[Skolman]

Matthews AINEC.

Matthews>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Barzal

Based on what? You make it sound like Matthews is some generational player and Barzal is some scrub

 

[McDavidCrushedLarkin]

He's no McDavid, whose missed more games in his career to injury than Barzal and Matthews combined.

Are you talking about a singular freak accident injury as opposed to multiple lingering injuries that indicate durability issues?

 

[authentic]

Barzal is elite, Matthews is a bit better all things considered though.

 

[Skolman]

In Matthews' D+1, as an 18 year old, he scored 40 goals and 69 points, winning the Calder and propelling his team to the playoffs for the first time (full-season) in over a decade.

What was Barzal doing in his D+1? Playing in the WHL. What about his D+2 though? Oh, yeah, playing in the WHL. This past season he was a 20/21 year old, sheltered rookie who you're comparing to a teenage Matthews, and despite going PPG behind Tavares, avoiding top match-ups, his team still missed the playoffs.

This same old song and dance happens every year and its comical. "Strome > Marner" "Brady Skjei > Rielly" "Aho > Marner" "Boeser > Matthews" etc. etc. It's as if the Leafs are the pinnacle, gold standard for every other team's best players to be compared to.


He's no McDavid, whose missed more games in his career to injury than Barzal and Matthews combined.

It's weird. You would think since McDavid has missed more games than Matthews that McDavid wouldn't have 2 Art Ross trophies, meanwhile Matthews hasn't even hit 70 points yet

 

[McDavidCrushedLarkin]

It's weird. You would think since McDavid has missed more games than Matthews that McDavid wouldn't have 2 Art Ross trophies, meanwhile Matthews hasn't even hit 70 points yet

I'm sure he hits 70 now that he's not going to be relied upon so heavily and will be more sheltered by Tavares carrying the load.

 

[BananaSquad]

Barzal is great, but this is Matthews and I don’t know if it’s really that close.

 

[LordNeverLose]

19, and didn’t have a Tavares to shelter him.

Correct me if I'm misremembering, but didn't Matthews start out on the 3rd line?
And didn't he have a 63.0 oZS% compared to Barzal's 53.7?
And didn't he only play 1:28 on the PK all season?
I don't know where to find QoC numbers but I'd bet Barzal's are better there too.

 

[Plural]

Matthews.

 

[LordNeverLose]

What leads people to say it isn't close? Is it 100% based on draft position? If you'd take Matthews that's fine and likely the consensus opinion, but there's is absolutely nothing -- not counting stats, advanced stats, or eye test -- to suggest it isn't close.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Correct me if I'm misremembering, but didn't Matthews start out on the 3rd line?
And didn't he have a 63.0 oZS% compared to Barzal's 53.7?
And didn't he only play 1:28 on the PK all season?
I don't know where to find QoC numbers but I'd bet Barzal's are better there too.

yes you are wrong. Matthews had tougher competition, and considering it was his D+1 season rather than D+3 it's even more impressive