Barzal rookie season vs. Matthews rookie season

[Nico the Draft Riser]

Yes, barzal never is out for late game defensive zone faceoffs because hes horrible at faceoffs. If you think that is "fabricated nonsense" you clearly know nothing about the sport.

Oh but hes good defensively, I forgot a center can never shift to wing...

Oh wait, they can. Thus Barzal is not trusted defensively when it matters. Thus he isnt played.

Your faceoff excuse is terrible and proves nothing

 

[Drytoast]

I'd definitely say Barzal is crushing his rookie season. It's just really unfortunate about that whole...islander thing.

 

[Incognito]

There was a lot of in that post and I tried to deploy a lot of Leaf fan logic in that one.

Sorry, my mistake. I'm not terrific at interpreting tone through text I can definitely admit that some Leafs fans exhibit blind homer-ism, as do fans of any franchise, but of course given the size of our fanbase, the number of biased Leafs fans also tends to he correspondingly larger.

 

[Strait2thecup]

Oh but hes good defensively, I forgot a center can never shift to wing...

Oh wait, they can. Thus Barzal is not trusted defensively when it matters. Thus he isnt played.

Your faceoff excuse is terrible and proves nothing

Im just telling you why hes not out there for defensive zone draws late in the game. You keep doing your thing though. Nobody here is taking anything you say seriously, you only get responses because your logic is so fallible

 

[Critical13]

Leaf fans are just "a small handful arguing Barzal isn't better than Matthews" - that's it folks! Nothing wrong with that! Certainly not a year-long obsession with Barzal outperforming Marner and now Matthews, with Leaf fans literally saying how insulting it is to poor Auston to even compare him to Barzal.

You know what I don't see? A small handful of Ducks fans making posts about how Barzal isn't as good as stupid Islander fans think he is. Don't see Hurricanes fans either. Blackhawks fans, Senators fans, Stars fans, Lightning fans - heck we even got a legit Brock Boeser sympathizer arguing that Barzal can play defense! You know, the Brock Boeser that was neck-and-neck with Barzal in the Calder race for a sizable part of the season.

There's like two Devils fans obsessed with Hischier >>>>> Barzal (both of whom joined the site very recently) and the majority of Leaf fans obsessed with Matthews >>>> Barzal. If you want to falsely paint your side as the innocent perfect angel victims and the other side as the evil bad boogeymen, you're the only taking the Donald Trump approach to discussing this.

Maybe because they don't constantly have their favourite players compared to Barzal? Did you consider that? Not to mention fans like yourself who have decided it's perfectly fine to take the opinions of 1 or 2 people, or at most a small handful from a group of over a million fans, and project their opinions across the whole fanbase.

I met a group of Americans while camping near Guelph Ontario who talked baseball with me a few years ago, and they mentioned that they loved TO and were glad there were no fa**oty french teams in baseball anymore. Can you imagine if I did what you are doing, and applied their poor tact and dumbness across all New Yorkers, or even Americans?

You see, I didn't. And it makes all the difference. You can keep up this pity party of a few Leaf fans being over the top, and thus throwing a blanket over all of us. That's your choice as a person...it's one thing to do it on an echo-chamber niche forum in the middle of the internet, but I hope you don't apply this same logic in real life.


Mitch Marner had more points in his D+2 year than Tavares. I don't think Marner is better than Tavares. Nothing wrong with patience. Saying I don't think Barzal is better isn't because I think AM is a God, but I do think variables are important and I need another year at least sample before I say that.

 

[Blue Shakehead]

Maybe because they don't constantly have their favourite players compared to Barzal? Did you consider that? Not to mention fans like yourself who have decided it's perfectly fine to take the opinions of 1 or 2 people, or at most a small handful from a group of over a million fans, and project their opinions across the whole fanbase.

I met a group of Americans while camping near Guelph Ontario who talked baseball with me a few years ago, and they mentioned that they loved TO and were glad there were no fa**oty french teams in baseball anymore. Can you imagine if I did what you are doing, and applied their poor tact and dumbness across all New Yorkers, or even Americans?

You see, I didn't. And it makes all the difference. You can keep up this pity party of a few Leaf fans being over the top, and thus throwing a blanket over all of us. That's your choice as a person...it's one thing to do it on an echo-chamber niche forum in the middle of the internet, but I hope you don't apply this same logic in real life.

Yeah sure, small sample size. But wait, is there even one Leaf fan in this thread who has agreed that Barzal's rookie season is more impressive than Matthews rookie season without some lame qualification about how 40G or being on a playoff team or being a year younger is actually better? So are we really tainting the entire fanbase with a broad brush when nobody in Victimville will step up?

Laine had more PPG and GPG than Matthews last year and was younger, but as a Jets fan I have no problem saying that what Barzal has accomplished is better. I don't have to say "I doubt Barzal will repeat next year" or "40 goals >>> assists". Barzal's rookie season is just flat out better.

 

[Critical13]

Yeah sure, small sample size. But wait, is there even one Leaf fan in this thread who has agreed that Barzal's rookie season is more impressive than Matthews rookie season without some lame qualification about how 40G is actually better? So are we really tainting the entire fanbase with a broad brush when nobody in Victimville will step up?

Laine had more PPG and GPG than Matthews last year, but as a Jets fan I have no problem saying that what Barzal has accomplished is better. I don't have to say "I want to see Barzal repeat this next year" or "40 goals >>> assists". Barzal's rookie season is just flat out better.

I would say AM and Barzal's were better, I don't see any discussion there. Points, position, QoC all point to that. I think what some people are saying is that Matthews is forced to play a different game than Barzal. Weight doesn't value defensive play the same way Babcock does. Barzal also has a year on him, we've seen what a year can do with Matthews and Laine's progression. Personally, I don't think goals are more valuable than assists, when I look at a player like Marner, he means so much more than 30g scorer JVR.

I am fine with Barzal having the "better" season, but some times point totals feel pretty empty without context.

 

[Blue Shakehead]

I would say AM and Barzal's were better, I don't see any discussion there. Points, position, QoC all point to that. I think what some people are saying is that Matthews is forced to play a different game than Barzal. Weight doesn't value defensive play the same way Babcock does. Barzal also has a year on him, we've seen what a year can do with Matthews and Laine's progression. Personally, I don't think goals are more valuable than assists, when I look at a player like Marner, he means so much more than 30g scorer JVR.

I am fine with Barzal having the "better" season, but some times point totals feel pretty empty without context.

How many disclaimers and "air quotes" do you need to qualify that Barzal's rookie season is actually better? Can we limit it to 10?

 

[Critical13]

How many disclaimers and "air quotes" do you need to qualify that Barzal's rookie season is actually better? Can we limit it to 10?

Rielly is better than Trouba and Morrissey. How do you feel about that?

If I were a Jets fan, it would be hard to argue with the stats, but I don't think that statement is really that simple. As a Leafs fan I know that the statement probably needs a bigger sample size and context...

Is this a discussion board or not?

 

[Blue Shakehead]

Rielly is better than Trouba and Morrissey. How do you feel about that?

If I were a Jets fan, it would be hard to argue with the stats, but I don't think that statement is really that simple. As a Leafs fan I know that the statement probably needs a bigger sample size and context...

Is this a discussion board or not?

The question here is whether Barzal's rookie season is factually better than Matthew's rookie season. You took offence to the suggestion that all Leafs fans share the same opinion and were being tainted by only the extreme minority. But we still can't find a single person in Leafs Nation who is willing to say that Barzal's rookie season is better without several disclaimers. Not even you.

If you want to talk Rielly vs Trouba or Morrissey, post a poll. I guarantee you there will be Jets fans who take Rielly. That's the difference.

 

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Rielly is better than Trouba and Morrissey. How do you feel about that?

I don't know, is he?

 

[Critical13]

The 95% of Leafs fans who can't unequivocally concede that Barzal's rookie season has been better than Matthews' are giving the other 5% a bad name!

There are over million Leaf fans, and there are probably about 10-15 in this thread.

I think your math is off.

 

[CodeE]

Maybe because they don't constantly have their favourite players compared to Barzal? Did you consider that? Not to mention fans like yourself who have decided it's perfectly fine to take the opinions of 1 or 2 people, or at most a small handful from a group of over a million fans, and project their opinions across the whole fanbase.

I met a group of Americans while camping near Guelph Ontario who talked baseball with me a few years ago, and they mentioned that they loved TO and were glad there were no fa**oty french teams in baseball anymore. Can you imagine if I did what you are doing, and applied their poor tact and dumbness across all New Yorkers, or even Americans?

You see, I didn't. And it makes all the difference. You can keep up this pity party of a few Leaf fans being over the top, and thus throwing a blanket over all of us. That's your choice as a person...it's one thing to do it on an echo-chamber niche forum in the middle of the internet, but I hope you don't apply this same logic in real life.


Mitch Marner had more points in his D+2 year than Tavares. I don't think Marner is better than Tavares. Nothing wrong with patience. Saying I don't think Barzal is better isn't because I think AM is a God, but I do think variables are important and I need another year at least sample before I say that.

You keep taking these condescending personal shots at me hoping it helps your case -

"Who hurt you?"
"I can't imagine applying your poor tact and dumbness in my life"
"I hope you don't apply this same logic to real life"

You can really have it one way or the other. You can keep on your "won't somebody please think of the innocent Leaf fans?" high horse attitude, or you can keep speaking to me in the same tone a parent speaks to a misbehaving child.

I don't do the high horse routine bit. I honestly believe there is a serious influx of talent across the NHL, and I've never been one to hate a young player until they do something to earn that hatred (cough cough Tom Wilson). On the contrary, when I see a thread about a ridiculous OMG spectacular play from Eichel, McDavid, Laine, or whoever, I'm happy to marvel at the skill and spectacle instead of grinding my teeth and getting bothered over it.

There have been Barzal vs. Eichel threads, Barzal vs. Laine threads on the poll boards. Here's Barzal vs. Laine from December:

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/barzal-vs-laine.2426757/

Guess what? Jets fans prefer Laine and some Isles fans prefer Barzal. The term "AINEC" was used. Yet Winnipeg fans somehow didn't get their feelings hurt that someone would dare compare Barzal to their young superstar.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/barzal-vs-eichel.2436909/

Barzal vs. Eichel! More "AINEC", a team we Islander fans have bad blood with when they spent the 2014-15 wishing injury upon Islander players so they could get a higher draft pick.

Barzal vs. Drai -

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/leon-draisaitl-vs-mathew-barzal.2447345/

Barzal vs. Barkov -

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/barkov-vs-barzal.2437179/

Blah blah blah blah blah. Where are the season long grudges that Barzal would dare be compared to their young superstars? If Sabres fans were the ones who had a major issue with Barzal's success, my sarcastic quips would likely be directed their way.

 

[Gm0ney]

There are over million Leaf fans, and there are probably about 10-15 in this thread.

I think your math is off.

I think it's a fairly accurate sample.

 

[Cotton]

There's like two Devils fans obsessed with Hischier >>>>> Barzal (both of whom joined the site very recently) and the majority of Leaf fans obsessed with Matthews >>>> Barzal. If you want to falsely paint your side as the innocent perfect angel victims and the other side as the evil bad boogeymen, you're the only taking the Donald Trump approach to discussing this.

This is ridiculous nonsense. Name the posters with links that comprise the majority of HFLeafs or stfu with your false narratives.

Some dumbass Preds fan just sent a dead catfish to a league office in Toronto, therefore the MAJORITY of Preds fans are hillbilly dumbasses because of this.. right? Or use your head and notice that 6 or 7 posters (if that) don’t represent a fan base as big as the Leafs have. Hell, I have more Leafs fans on ignore than non-Leafs fans, and i’m a Leafs fan.

 

[1specter]

The 95% of Leafs fans who can't unequivocally concede that Barzal's rookie season has been better than Matthews' are giving the other 5% a bad name!

Except it hasn't lol. The only argument for Barzal has been points (in a higher scoring season no less) and nothing else.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Barzal is playing the Rangers tonight. He has 4 goals and 6 points against them in 2 games this season. I am not sure what to expect tonight, but he can end this poll tonight if he hasn't already a few weeks ago, a week ago, or even a few days ago when he hit 82 points in 80 games.

This one has been over for some time already. Barzal may put an even bigger exclamation point tonight on who has had the better rookie season.

 

[Blue Shakehead]

Except it hasn't lol. The only argument for Barzal has been points (in a higher scoring season no less) and nothing else.

Yep, and the only argument that Gretzky was better than Tim Kerr in 1985-86 was points. Sure, Gretzky had 215 points but he had better linemates and was poor defensively. Kerr had more goals, which we all know is more important.

 

[Blue Shakehead]

Rookie Seasons:

Name	G	Pts	S%	oiS%	ATOI	CF%	CF%rel	oZS%
Auston Matthews	40	69	14.3	8.0	17:38	52.2	2.3	63.0
Mathew Barzal	22+	82+	12.9	9.8	17:48	53.3	8.0	53.7

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

I have no idea why it is even an argument who had a rookie season unless you think goals are so much more valuable than assists that Cheechoo was better than Thornton in 06

"The only argument for Barzal is points".

 

[Strait2thecup]

Barzal is playing the Rangers tonight. He has 4 goals and 6 points against them in 2 games this season. I am not sure what to expect tonight, but he can end this poll tonight if he hasn't already a few weeks ago, a week ago, or even a few days ago when he hit 82 points in 80 games.

This one has been over for some time already. Barzal may put an even bigger exclamation point tonight on who has had the better rookie season.

He actually had 3 assists against them in a game in February so 4 goals 5 assists in 3 games

 

[The Winter Soldier]

He actually had 3 assists against them in a game in February so 4 goals 5 assists in 3 games

I must have missed a game there. 9 pts in 3 games. As a big admirer of Barzal's hockey talents. I hope he saved a few for tonight.

 

[Strait2thecup]

I must have missed a game there. 9 pts in 3 games. As a big admirer of Barzal's hockey talents. I hope he saved a few for tonight.

You and me both

 

[CodeE]

This is ridiculous nonsense. Name the posters with links that comprise the majority of HFLeafs or **** with your false narratives.

Some dumbass Preds fan just sent a dead catfish to a league office in Toronto, therefore the MAJORITY of Preds fans are hillbilly dumbasses because of this.. right? Or use your head and notice that 6 or 7 posters (if that) don’t represent a fan base as big as the Leafs have. Hell, I have more Leafs fans on ignore than non-Leafs fans, and i’m a Leafs fan.

#NotAllLeafFans, jesus we get it. For someone complaining about narratives you sure are pushing one now, that there are only 6-7 bad Leaf fans and all of them just happen to be posting in this thread. What are the odds?

In this thread you'll find plenty of anti-Barzal crap. I don't need to provide links. Click on any page 1-21 and keep reading until you find it. I'm not flying to Toronto, running around sports bars telling every Leaf fan I see that they're all garbage. I'm responding to Toronto fans who come into this thread and post negative nonsense about the next Calder winner. If you're so happy to forgive and forget about those bad 6-7 Leaf fans ruining it for the rest of you angelic fanbase, maybe you can find it in your heart to forgive and forget "ridiculous nonsense" from an Islanders fan.

 

[Plural]

Have to go with Barzal. 13 more points is just too much to overlook. What a great rookie season.

 

[CujosMask]

Matthews had the better season IMO. Cheers everyone!