yes we are... irrelevant to what is being discussed. You cant use playoffs as a comparison when one player wont be in them. and his stats over a 6 game first round exit mean next to nothing (although still impressive)
Barzal rookie season vs. Matthews rookie season
- Thread starter Oan
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yes we are... irrelevant to what is being discussed. You cant use playoffs as a comparison when one player wont be in them. and his stats over a 6 game first round exit mean next to nothing (although still impressive)
I just think if we are going to discuss rookie years playoffs should be discussed. Maybe it's not fair because Barzal didn't make the playoffs but maybe it's not fair to discuss pure points when Barzal is in a run and gun system and Matthews is being asked to more defensivly, face offs while facing tougher competition.
Rehabguy
Always open minded
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No one has answered my question yet. Usually to make some claim that one player is better than another there are a number of individual skills that makes player A better than player B. So what skills does Matthews have that make him a better player than Barzal? Skating. Passing, Shooting, durability, acceleration, top end speed, release etc...? All I know is that excellence in many of these skills gave Barzal 82 points, most likely the Calder, and counting.
PWJunior
Stay safe!
Haha, so instead of trying to make it as fair of a comparison as possible... let's just go with your biased set of criteria to pump up your guy.
Rehabguy
Always open minded
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What? Based on that logic Matthews is a better player than McDavid his rookie season and this year because the Oilers didn't make the playoffs.
Sidney the Kidney
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Matthews has the same sort of knack Tavares has for seeming to know where to be, when to be there, and the puck somehow ends up where he goes. Matthews is also tremendous at protecting the puck (very tough to get it off him when he's shielding it along the boards), and his wrister is one of the best in hockey.
Barzal's edge is in his speed (not necessarily skating itself, as Matthews has tremendous balance and has decent speed himself), ability to turn on a dime, and passing ability.
But if you want to know specifically what Matthews does well, picture Tavares, but with a more lethal wrist shot and a much better skater.
Do you really not see the difference of the two things you posted? one is games that one played in and one didnt. The other is some biased analysis trying to justify why barzal outperformed matthews in the games they did both play in. Not trying to be condescending but thats a huge false equivalency
their zone starts in their rookie years are virtually identical re the bolded. Also would like to point out that i find it kind of sad that leaf fans are still pushing the "run and gun system" thing.... i mean ive seen it from countless leafs HF posters and almost nobody else.
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Haha, so instead of trying to make it as fair of a comparison as possible... let's just go with your biased set of criteria to pump up your guy.
Just an utterly ridiculous response
Rehabguy
Always open minded
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This is actually what I was thinking. I see a lot of Tavares in Matthews. I'd say they are on the same Tier. But it's undeniable that Barzal's stickhandling, soft hands, vision, are already world class, but these traits are often overshadowed by his super elite overall skating abilities which maybe only 1 or 2 other players in this league can match. Most people notice the skating but miss those hands of his and more importantly his ability to stickhandle at top speeds and while being so shifty. That's the difference between the great players and the elite. Islander fans will tell you the Barzal was the far more impressive player than Tavares the entire year- as great a player as Tavares is and I think it is the ability to stick handle and make plays at full stride or while braking that makes Barzal a superior player.
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Or we can ignore a very important component of having a great rookie season to make your guy look better.Haha, so instead of trying to make it as fair of a comparison as possible... let's just go with your biased set of criteria to pump up your guy.
Sidney the Kidney
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Or we can ignore a very important component of having a great rookie season to make your guy look better.
Matt Murray had a better rookie year than both, then. He won a Cup as a rookie --- twice!
Not saying that at all, but we need to discuss all aspects of a rookies first year in the league and not ignore very important parts such as the playoffs
Rehabguy
Always open minded
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It's one aspect of an overall evaluation of a rookie year between Matthews and Barzal. Just like points and goals everything should be discussed to come up with a player you feel had the better year. Why ignore playoffs just because it dosnt benefit Barzal.Matt Murray had a better rookie year than both, then. He won a Cup as a rookie --- twice!
Rehabguy
Always open minded
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However an argument can also be made why include them because it only benefits Matthews?
Wait...
The Leafs are 2nd in goals for and 13th in goals against. They aren't a "run and gun" system"?
If they are being asked to tighten up defensively, they aren't doing a great job of it.
Like I said before, when trying to evaluate a great rookie year all things must be taken into account. As for the run in gun system I think any team that scores as much as the islanders do and lets in the most goals in the NHL it's pretty clear the objective for the forwards is to score goals first.
Well you have to take those numbers in context. In goal diff the leafs are +44, that puts them 6 best league wide. But I do agree the Leafs biggest weakness throughout the year has been the defence.
Early on in the season The Leafs were scoring like crazy but babcock was not happy so he pulled the reigns and got them to settle down and play a more structured system.
I don't think the reigns has been pulled back on the Islanders just yet.
Blue Shakehead
because lol Jets
I'm not surprised that you missed my post right below it, which was a table showing how Barzal is smashing Matthews in points and possession stats, both in raw totals and relative to his team despite not getting easy minutes like Matthews with the highest offensive zone starts in the league.
If points are so easy to come by this year, why is Barzal beating Matthews - despite Matthews having the experience of an extra NHL season under his belt? If Matthews is better, why can't Nylander score more than 19 goals? Do you think he'd have less goals if he played with Barzal? If Matthews is so much better defensively, why are his possession stats worse?
Barzal's is obviously much much better. But he was older and did not go straight from draft to the NHL. If you are talking strictly which is better it is Barzal, if you take in consideration age and draft year it is Matthew IMO.
Matthews was never 18 and in the NHL. He was a late birthday in his draft year.
Panthaz89
Buffalo Sabres, Carolina Panthers fan
He's had a better rookie season but its also a few years before he got to play. Would be nice to see what his season would of compared to a healthy Matthews all season.
Panthaz89
Buffalo Sabres, Carolina Panthers fan
that makes no sense because he has no chance to play in the playoffs. Why compare their seasons when one player has no real control over whether his team makes the playoffs or not because they have an abysmal defense/goaltending. Its when you judge players head to head and start propelling one over the other because their teammates are playing their part that makes no sense.
Walter Sobchak
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- Dec 30, 2015
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When comparing rookie seasons, I am just not sure how everyone can ignore age.
Both players are the same age. Last year, at age 19, Matthews scored 40 goals and Barzal played for the Seattle Thunderbirds.
This year both players are PPG producers but Barzal only has 7 more even strength points despite playing in 20 more games. Oh, and Matthews also happens to be one of the, if not the, most efficient goal scores in the league over the past two years.
Brazal is a great player. I am not trying to take anything away from him and he deserves the to be the ROY but what Matthews was able to do last year, at age 19, when Barzal was playing in the WHL is simply more impressive in my mind all things considered.
Both players are the same age. Last year, at age 19, Matthews scored 40 goals and Barzal played for the Seattle Thunderbirds.
This year both players are PPG producers but Barzal only has 7 more even strength points despite playing in 20 more games. Oh, and Matthews also happens to be one of the, if not the, most efficient goal scores in the league over the past two years.
Brazal is a great player. I am not trying to take anything away from him and he deserves the to be the ROY but what Matthews was able to do last year, at age 19, when Barzal was playing in the WHL is simply more impressive in my mind all things considered.
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