Barry Trotz's tenure as Caps coach (RS: Healthy; Playoff: 2nd Round Exititis)
- Thread starter ChibiPooky
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If its not the players maybe you think we need a new coach? At what point do you what to start looking at the players as the real problem?
I think Trotz is the right guy. But I also feel like it going to be a vary long road to get the core of this team to play like a cup winner. He is trying to fix problems that were started by BB.
trotz
the only problem i see is that in 15 years with nashville he never got them past the second round and in 8 of those years he never made the playoffs. Also changing the lines almost every third shift is annoying and not productive. I think he should keep a line up together for more than that.
the only problem i see is that in 15 years with nashville he never got them past the second round and in 8 of those years he never made the playoffs. Also changing the lines almost every third shift is annoying and not productive. I think he should keep a line up together for more than that.
txpd
Registered User
trotz was aways coaching an underdog team. if they made the playoffs it was a surprise. if they won a round of playoffs, a bigger surprise. big difference between trotz little engine the could teams and bruce boudreau's Ferrari.
Semin
.
- Jun 13, 2009
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Imagine what the Caps record would be with a goalie with a 0.932 save %.
Rinne is healthy this year and is a huge reason why Nashville has a good record.
fedfed
@FedFedRMNB
I was doubtful about Trotz from day one. So far, his roster decisions have been Oates-esque, especially insistence on playing both Burakovsky and Kuznetsov at C. It's almost as if Nick Backstrom is 38 and we need two offensive centers ASAP.
Neither of them should be a top-six center on a playoff team (and I keep hearing that these Caps are a playoff team).
He also refuses to play three scoring lines and embrace the fact that his team has a luxury of having more than six skilled players. In modern NHL, the stereotypical third line duties are often relegated to the fourth line. What we should do is give bottom two lines equal ice time with the so-called fourth line getting tougher assignments, while the so-called third would get easier ones.
Ovechkin - Backstrom - Wilson
Johansson - Burakovsky/Kuznetsov - Brouwer
Burakovsky/Kuznetsov - Latta/Laich - Fehr
Chimera - Latta/Beagle - Ward
Then just trade one of our D (like Orlov) for 2B center (think Perreault) and plug him in at 3C.
Beagle over Brown?
Fehr in the press box?
Liam O'Brien in the line-up?
Trotz is living in a bizarro world.
Neither of them should be a top-six center on a playoff team (and I keep hearing that these Caps are a playoff team).
He also refuses to play three scoring lines and embrace the fact that his team has a luxury of having more than six skilled players. In modern NHL, the stereotypical third line duties are often relegated to the fourth line. What we should do is give bottom two lines equal ice time with the so-called fourth line getting tougher assignments, while the so-called third would get easier ones.
Ovechkin - Backstrom - Wilson
Johansson - Burakovsky/Kuznetsov - Brouwer
Burakovsky/Kuznetsov - Latta/Laich - Fehr
Chimera - Latta/Beagle - Ward
Then just trade one of our D (like Orlov) for 2B center (think Perreault) and plug him in at 3C.
Beagle over Brown?
Fehr in the press box?
Liam O'Brien in the line-up?
Trotz is living in a bizarro world.
Hivemind
We're Touched
You don't consider Ward's line to be a scoring line? Ward leads the team in goals (2nd at even-strength), and was among the team's even-strength goal scoring leaders in the two previous seasons as well.
Chimera has certainly been disappointing this season, granted.
Chimera has certainly been disappointing this season, granted.
fedfed
@FedFedRMNB
I consider them a checking line that can chip in offensively. Ward has huge S% which is due to regress. Looking forward, it's not a good position.
Hivemind
We're Touched
That line "chips in" more offensively than most of the other lines. Just because they can also play difficult match-ups doesn't make them no longer a scoring line.
txpd
Registered User
hard to make this stuff up. Ward leads his team in goals dump him to the 4th line because he's sure to cool down
fedfed
@FedFedRMNB
I think they can chip in just as much if we give other lines opportunities to contribute too. Right now, depending on injury situation, we have one or two quality skill players either in the press box or on the fourth line getting 10 minutes per game. Trotz is not using the depth he has the best way.
fedfed
@FedFedRMNB
You can call that third line. Let's call the last two lines "shutdown third line" and "offensive third line". You're arguing about semantics here. Do you really think players care about what you call their line? Thing is, it'd make us more balanced.
But yes, he'll cool down. Math says that. And we better have plan B for when he does.
So far, I see what I expected to see from Trotz. He tries to fit players in his system, not fit his system to the players he's got.
txpd
Registered User
Ward is leading the team in goals. I expect that to change. I figure Ward is good for 20-25. wouldn't line him up with LOB and Latta and yank him off the power play.
fedfed
@FedFedRMNB
Where did you see me suggesting it? I wasn't talking about special teams at all and LOB doesn't belong in the line-up anyway.
Chimera - Latta - Ward would be a legit checking (give it whatever number you want) line.
Would you rather have Kuznetsov or Fehr playing with the likes of Latta and Beagle/sitting in the press box?
RandyHolt
Keep truckin'
- Nov 3, 2006
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Trotz has a little bit of Oates in him.
But its almost imperative that the odd ball moves work. Sitting Kuz, maybe we had to win there before Ovi and Kuz are talking about what a quack he is.
Beagle on 1? Passing like we have never seen. Ovi choked on his hat attempt after a fine pass. I no expecting pass. Yeah whatever.
I figured it out. Trotz thinks the players are more comfortable in the Oates roles. Trying to toss them a bone every now and then
I think more and more traditional line makeup needs to be tossed out the window. While I love the idea of a big mean 4th line, when the lineup has an elite player like Kuz, the coach has to consider adjusting to 3 scoring lines.
It's early though. He is still learning life with offensive players. He seems to open things up, and then close them down. Me thinks he is unleashing the boys, letting them attack at will, at the same time slowly grooming them to be that defensive teamwe hate so much we need to be to expect to take down anyone in the playoffs.
But its almost imperative that the odd ball moves work. Sitting Kuz, maybe we had to win there before Ovi and Kuz are talking about what a quack he is.
Beagle on 1? Passing like we have never seen. Ovi choked on his hat attempt after a fine pass. I no expecting pass. Yeah whatever.
I figured it out. Trotz thinks the players are more comfortable in the Oates roles. Trying to toss them a bone every now and then
I think more and more traditional line makeup needs to be tossed out the window. While I love the idea of a big mean 4th line, when the lineup has an elite player like Kuz, the coach has to consider adjusting to 3 scoring lines.
It's early though. He is still learning life with offensive players. He seems to open things up, and then close them down. Me thinks he is unleashing the boys, letting them attack at will, at the same time slowly grooming them to be that defensive team
Just listening to Trotz's pressers over the last few weeks, this is the way he wants his lines setup: 2 skill guys, 1 heavy guy
Ovi and Nicky, and Wilson
Mojo and Bura, and Brouwer
Do we have another winger that can play that skill role with Kuz? I dunno. I would've said Chimmers but dude is struggling this year.
I wouldn't mind seeing this as 3rd line to see how they work out:
Chimmer and Kuz, and Laich
Ovi and Nicky, and Wilson
Mojo and Bura, and Brouwer
Do we have another winger that can play that skill role with Kuz? I dunno. I would've said Chimmers but dude is struggling this year.
I wouldn't mind seeing this as 3rd line to see how they work out:
Chimmer and Kuz, and Laich
BobRouse
Registered User
- Mar 18, 2009
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Beagle is a better defender plays PK and excellent on faceoffs.
Whats your beef with LOB? He's been outstanding on the 4th line. Hits everything and very annoying to play against.
Oh btw we won 3 in a row. We have outshot 80% of our opponents this year.
We are a top 5 Corsi/Fenwick team.
The only reason we aren't way up in the standings is a slow start in goaltending.
So Joel Ward to the 4th line just because?
Ward was our 3rd leading goal scorer last year and is currently our 3rd leading goal scorer so far this year.
You want to send him to the 4th line?
Ward's TOI doesn't have to take a hit just cause we're trying to create more offense by involving Kuz.
WP just put out an article with quotes from Trotz from today's presser:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...s-hope-to-build-fourth-line-around-kuznetsov/
He seems to want to use Kuz's line to actually generate some offense.
WP just put out an article with quotes from Trotz from today's presser:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...s-hope-to-build-fourth-line-around-kuznetsov/
He seems to want to use Kuz's line to actually generate some offense.
fedfed
@FedFedRMNB
Vs Chicago (Carolina game went into OT and there were too many penalties both ways vs C'bus), Nick and Alex played about 23:30 and 21:30 at even strength.
Troy and MJ played 11 and 12 respectively, with Ward and Chimmer getting close to 15 each.
That's 49 minutes of ES TOI, so there was 5 left for the fourth line (yes, I know 92 didn't play in that game).
But if we give first line 19, second line 11 and checkers 14, we'd have 10 for the so-called "fourth" line.
My point is that three bottom lines are all totally capable of sharing the same type of ES load (between 10 and 14 minutes). Who gets what of that depends on number of penalties (we have Marcus and Troy on first PP and Chimmer and Ward on first PK, so that would of course influence it). So if we have a ton of PK, Chimmer and Ward slide down to 10 minutes of ES TOI, and if we work a lot on PP, second line gets less ES TOI.
But it's my strong opinion that Trotz should be giving bottom three lines at least about 20 percent of available ES TOI.
If we look at a game with 50 minutes of ES play, it'd mean at least 10 minutes for each forward. The distribution I'd prefer is (in minutes) 18-10-12-10 or (in percentage) 36-20-24-20.
Another option is go bold: Chimmer to the fourth line with Beagle/Latta and Wilson, for example, Laich/Fehr-Kuznetsov-Ward on the third. That way, we'd get a "real" third line. As in the one that is superior in comparison to the fourth.
Hivemind
We're Touched
Let Kuznetsov actually outplay those ahead of him on the depth chart at even-strength before rewarding him with more even-strength minutes. Kuzy hasn't been very effective at even strength, and is downright bad in the defensive zone.
He's terrific on the powerplay, though.
He's terrific on the powerplay, though.
ChibiPooky
Yay hockey!
Backstrom did a long podcast with Magnus Nystrom on a variety of topics.
http://hockeyramblings.wordpress.co...life-for-an-nhl-player-is-really-like-part-1/
http://hockeyramblings.wordpress.co...life-for-an-nhl-player-is-really-like-part-1/
g00n
Retired Global Mod
- Nov 22, 2007
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My hate for Oates grows more intense every day. Thank you for fanning the flames.
NobodyBeatsTheWiz
Happy now?
He made the players practice how he wanted to practice as a player, just as he tried to get them to play how he wanted to play as a player.
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