Balsillie/Phoenix Part VI

[New User Name]

You do realize he'd go to prison if he was caught, right?

Highly unlikely.

 

[LadyStanley]

http://vyous.com/sports/nhl/coyotes...lose-to-it-for-coyote-gm---hamilton-spectator

Phoenix GM comments on how things are running....

In his original court filings, Jim Balsillie wanted the future of the Coyotes decided by the draft, to help facilitate plans for next year. Maloney says he found that request somewhat "moot" because the draft is "really about looking down the road a couple of years."

However, there is at least some timing component to the draft. Teams will often trade draft positions with another team and if they're "trading down," they sometimes receive an NHL player in return for doing so. But to know if they could accommodate that player in their salary structure, the Coyotes would also need to know what kind of budget they're going to have next year. And that depends upon who's going to own the team.

Not knowing what the budget will be for next season, the hockey gurus in Phoenix have come up with three scenarios (high, middle, low regions of salary cap) to help them identify players they might want to acquire in trade and who they might go after in free agency.

"In each case, we say 'these are some of the players we might look at.' In a normal year, you'd know by now what your budget is going to be. But I think that at the end of the day, regardless of how this turns out, we have to continue to build the base of the franchise up, through drafting and development."

They'd love some clarity (to know what budget they have and where they'll be playing), but feel they'll do a good job regardless.

 

[SoCalPredFan]

Yes, I actually believe he would.

What I'd love to know is how did he convince Leopold to take 40 million less for the Preds.

Uh, because that offer was the only one actually out there.

Taking out the little fact that JB/Rodier publicly release confidential and private emails from Leopold...

Balsillie pulled his offer b/c of the no-move clause.

Fact of the matter is, JB completely botched the attempted Predators purchase. Illegally using the Predators likeness to "sell" Hamilton Predators season tickets, while pretending to offer a "good faith" attempt at making things work in Nashville.

In the end, JB walked. The local offer was there, and Leopold took it.

 

[triggrman]

Yeah people forget that and blame Bettman, it was JB that wouldn't put a binding offer in on Nashville allowing the local owners to make their own offer. Leipold took what he could get.

 

[Art.Vandelay]

Heather from the Coyotes Booster Club did a nice summary of Tuesday's hearing. I put a copy of her write up online. Here is a link:

http://members.cox.net/michael.kasher/june09hearing.htm

 

[LadyStanley]

http://vyous.com/sports/nhl/coyotes...t-solve-all-of-city39s-issues---national-post
While many Hamilton-ians are excited about the possibility of getting a NHL team, there are a number of economic issues out of this current malaise that will not be solved by the team. (Food bank visits up 27%)

 

[New User Name]

Uh, because that offer was the only one actually out there.

Taking out the little fact that JB/Rodier publicly release confidential and private emails from Leopold...

Balsillie pulled his offer b/c of the no-move clause.

Fact of the matter is, JB completely botched the attempted Predators purchase. Illegally using the Predators likeness to "sell" Hamilton Predators season tickets, while pretending to offer a "good faith" attempt at making things work in Nashville.

In the end, JB walked. The local offer was there, and Leopold took it.

Kind of like how Boots had his offer to buy the Pens (after they won the Crosby draft) pulled by Mario.
Everyone knew Boots has first dibs in KC and he wanted to move the Pens to KC......in fact they were selling luxury box subscriptions in KC.
Then Boots received 28% of the Preds, but when he ran into financial trouble, he called on Jim to sell him his stake, but the league stepped in and said without the rights Boots had.

 

[LadyStanley]

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/local/articles/2009/06/12/20090612glencoyotes0612.html

Glendale city manager claims he did not conceal letter from Shumway requesting concessions on lease.

 

[The Pouzar]

You think Bettman did it? It was all the Syndacite. It's part of their plan to release the black oil via the oil sands in Alberta. CSM backdated those e-mails, hoping to play Canadians against each other to distract them from the infection beginning around them as the invasion begins.

/geek

You do realize the CSM was a Canadian afterall.

 

[New User Name]

http://vyous.com/sports/nhl/coyotes...t-solve-all-of-city39s-issues---national-post
While many Hamilton-ians are excited about the possibility of getting a NHL team, there are a number of economic issues out of this current malaise that will not be solved by the team. (Food bank visits up 27%)

Food bank use is up in almost every city in NA.
I think if we go by poverty ranks to preclude a team, Buffalo and Detroit would be at the top of the list.

 

[RR]

If i read this correctly the judge only stated the league has a right to charge for the lost franchise fee of Hamilton. I do NOT see anywhere, that it states MLSE or Buffalo has a right to territory costs.

From Art.Vandelay Twitter from Courtroom June 9:
"Judge cautions that other damages for nhl, Glendale and aramark could mean less money for unsecured creditors than a local bid"

Not a specific reference to indemnity fees, but since he later was specific as to a relocation fee, not a damages fee, but a reasonable fee based on Raiders 2, I'm not sure what other "damages" the NHL could claim that would impact unsecured creditors in a relo bid vs. local bid.

Perhaps there are other damages NHL could claim, but it seems a pretty gray area. We'll find out when he rules.

 

[LadyStanley]

http://www.fiveforhowling.com/2009/6/12/906976/coyotes-ouiji-board-what-i-think

Phoenix blogger using ouiji board to determine hearing outcome

What's more important I think is the stuff under part 365. In that section of Bankruptcy law that deals with what happens when a debtor wants to get rid of a lease they are under.

The Judge had wanted the Moyes/Balsillie side to show that either they were able to break the lease on Jobing.com Arena OR that they could find a monetary or other type settlement that would satisfy the City's lease. However in court the Balsillie/Moyes team basically said that sure the City would get hurt, but didn't really address the issue. They likened it to a lease on a spot in a shopping center which is covered somewhat differently in 365. Under that the team would owe Glendale some small part of the 30 years worth of rent and that would be it. However the Judge seemed to thing that this was only slightly different than a shopping center lease. I'm not sure of all the legal bits, but it seemed as though the part of the case the judge had insisted they focus on at the beginning of the case fell largely to the wayside.

 

[New User Name]

Yeah people forget that and blame Bettman, it was JB that wouldn't put a binding offer in on Nashville allowing the local owners to make their own offer. Leipold took what he could get.

On June 28, 2007, CBC.ca reported that Leipold had decided not to sign a binding agreement with Balsillie and that Leipold plans to sell the team to William DelBiaggio, who has the rights to the newly-completed Sprint Center in Kansas City, Missouri. This apparent move has startled some analysts since DelBiaggio's offer is said to be worth about $50 million less than Balsillie's. However, DelBiaggio himself has insisted that any sale to him will take several months to complete.

It was also said that DelBiaggio was taking luxury box subscriptions for KC after his offer for the Pens in 2005.

With regards to Pittsburgh, Balsillie said that only the Isle of Capri plan would guarantee the Pittsburgh Penguins' future in the city.
While Balsillie refused to rule a move out, he asserted his commitment to Pittsburgh, should a new arena be built.

 

[LadyStanley]

http://www.fiveforhowling.com/2009/6/12/906949/balsillies-fatal-flaw-impatience

Phoenix blogger: Balsillie's fatal flaw is impatience

While we're far from resolved here in the desert, one of the biggest points that the Judge has been making throughout the proceedings is that in this process Balsillie has yet to be wronged in any way by the league. His team of attorney's have been arguing that the NHL is violating Anti-Trust laws by not letting the team move. The Judge however, has questioned on multiple occasions the validity of those claims because Balsillie hasn't let the NHL go through the process of reviewing any of the applications either for the transfer or for relocation. Since he hasn't been denied anything as of yet then how can he claim he was wronged?

From Twitter:
brahmresnik: Baum Watch: I'm betting on nothing today. This judge won't insert himself into the Cup presentation tonight.

 

[New User Name]

Uh, because that offer was the only one actually out there.

Taking out the little fact that JB/Rodier publicly release confidential and private emails from Leopold...

Balsillie pulled his offer b/c of the no-move clause.

Fact of the matter is, JB completely botched the attempted Predators purchase. Illegally using the Predators likeness to "sell" Hamilton Predators season tickets, while pretending to offer a "good faith" attempt at making things work in Nashville.

In the end, JB walked. The local offer was there, and Leopold took it.

So you're trying to tell me Mr. Leopold took 40+ million less because of his love for the Preds? Why then did he end up with the Wild?

 

[RR]

I am still looking for the justification on the $400M+ value for a team in SO.

Here is the latest on the bid for the Montreal Canadiens.



http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601082&sid=aPYs.aTfGhBQ

I am wondering why the NHL might not want the Habs to act on this right now.

Not sure who is suggesting a $400M+ current value of a team in Hamilton. The "opportunity" cost to place a team in Hamilton appears to be in that price range.

 

[Brodie]

Hey man, to give the people of Winnipeg some false hope, Gary would do a nickel standing on his head.

Fox has done the impossible and made a Wings fan agree with a Pens fan today.

 

[Hammertown]

RE #2:
Presumably there would be a buy-out to Glendale. Usually and escape-clause allows you to get out of the lease, but not without an agreed upon buy-out figure.

If I'm Glendale, I'd rather know I've got my anchor tenant for 2-4 years guaranteed + a buyout if the clause is triggered + the chance that the clause isn't triggered and my tenant continues to stay (like Nashville) ..... than get pennies on the dollar as a creditor in a bankruptcy settlement and left with an empty arena with no likely anchor tenant replacement.

Ah thanks, of course. Anyone know how many millions a lease buyout of this nature would run Reinsdorf if he triggered it in a few years? I guess like you said it's better to have an anchor tenant for a few years on the chance things will turn around and they'll stick around in Glendale. Rather than having an empty arena immediately.

My only other point with this is the alleged lack of taxpayer support in Glendale for such huge lease concessions and the threat of a possible lawsuit by the Goldwater Institute if taxpayer dollars are committed and approved by city council.

I think no matter who loses this fight, they will appeal/sue regarding the bankruptcy court decision, be it Glendale, JB, the NHL, MLSE or maybe even Moyes.


One other point, I think alot of people are forgetting that Judge Baum has indicated the relocation fee number has to be reasonable. The NHL can't just pick a random exorbitant number. People throwing around random relocation fees of 250 to 300 million in addition to the 212.5 million or 165 million (or whatever) purchase price, for the Hamilton market, can forget it. Judge Baum knows this team isn't worth more than the leafs, even more so without owning the arena. There's no way he awards a relocation fee of 250 to 300 million plus damages to Glendale of 7 to 550 million (take your pick in between at this point) cause he knows Balsillie will walk if it gets that high. There's no way anyone pays over 500 million for a Hamilton team.

Also does anyone know if JB has posted the $20 million deposit with his stalking horse bid or is that not required till the auction actually opens? Then we'll see who the actual bidders are that are willing to put their money where their mouth is.
Correct me if I'm wrong but the only real bid at this point is Balsillie's. Reinsdorf/NHL have not submitted the Reinsdorf bid to the court yet or the required 20 million dollar bid fee. The only option other than JB, if Reinsdorf backs out and there are no other bids, is for the NHL to take over the team and run it/pay for it's losses in Glendale, or contract the team (which will never happen), correct?

 

[bbud]

Hey man, to give the people of Winnipeg some false hope, Gary would do a nickel standing on his head.

and i thought i hated him geez lol

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

No the Judge explicitly said Tuesday that the City can't easily go out and find a new tenant like a KMart. I just hope for your sake you never own a rental property and have a tenant walk out earlier on their contractual obligations. See what kind of bind that puts you in. "It's not like they lent the team money..." no they just built them a home for gods sake. and again the attorneys for the City made the best case on Tuesday over anyone. Look this team may be gone, but I can promise after hearing the tone of the Judge (1st hand) Glendale isn't getting stiffed with a measly 3 year lease payment as restitution.

it didn't help that the arena was forced to find other events in '04-05 DUE TO THE lockout; Jobing was scheduled to open that year.

 

[triggrman]

So you're trying to tell me Mr. Leopold took 40+ million less because of his love for the Preds? Why then did he end up with the Wild?

No he took 40M less to sell the team to someone willing to buy the team right then, someone willing to sign a binding agreement.

 

[bbud]

Uh, because that offer was the only one actually out there.

Taking out the little fact that JB/Rodier publicly release confidential and private emails from Leopold...

Balsillie pulled his offer b/c of the no-move clause.

Fact of the matter is, JB completely botched the attempted Predators purchase. Illegally using the Predators likeness to "sell" Hamilton Predators season tickets, while pretending to offer a "good faith" attempt at making things work in Nashville.

In the end, JB walked. The local offer was there, and Leopold took it.

It seems likely GB also was playing it as he needed a buyer desperately any buyer at that time Boots was not a logical 1st choice if he needed loans to make it happen and that means no vetting whatsoever was really done of a prospected owner at all other owners and GB should have had alarm bells going off all over he didnt care about what happened to the team all he cared and still does about his money and his expansion babies no matter who loses he wants to win no different than a few other guys we talk about in this forum hes just met one who will play as dirty as he does and i hope it takes him down

 

[RR]

2 points from this post
Jb dosnt care about anything but S Ontario so Habs are not appealling
and if 420 mill is the price for THE Marquis Franchise in the league a price which includes the building how in any terms can hamilton go near that value i say a judge in Arz will see this one pretty easy and if anything its adding some comparable values as to what real team prices are and in reality it would say to me Hamiltons worth half -new team undeveloped system no rink and i have to think no judge will be buying S Ont at 450 is a good deal now

There is a difference between the value of a business and the opportunity cost to own that business. This process is dealing with the opportunity cost to put a franchise in Hamilton. The initial cost will be higher than the value of the franchise. As revenues come in, debt service is paid down, and profits are realized (or not realized) the value of the franchise will adjust accordingly.

 

[triggrman]

On June 28, 2007, CBC.ca reported that Leipold had decided not to sign a binding agreement with Balsillie and that Leipold plans to sell the team to William DelBiaggio, who has the rights to the newly-completed Sprint Center in Kansas City, Missouri. This apparent move has startled some analysts since DelBiaggio's offer is said to be worth about $50 million less than Balsillie's. However, DelBiaggio himself has insisted that any sale to him will take several months to complete.

It was also said that DelBiaggio was taking luxury box subscriptions for KC after his offer for the Pens in 2005.

With regards to Pittsburgh, Balsillie said that only the Isle of Capri plan would guarantee the Pittsburgh Penguins' future in the city.
While Balsillie refused to rule a move out, he asserted his commitment to Pittsburgh, should a new arena be built.

this is not the way I remember it at all. Boots joined the local group after the initial offer was made so Leipold entered into an agreement with the local owners, not Boots.

 

[bbud]

There is a difference between the value of a business and the opportunity cost to own that business. This process is dealing with the opportunity cost to put a franchise in Hamilton. The initial cost will be higher than the value of the franchise. As revenues come in, debt service is paid down, and profits are realized (or not realized) the value of the franchise will adjust accordingly.

i know this has some impact but you and i can both hire 10 experts to give us forecats and id be surprised if each was same you me or Gb do not have crystal ball to future net gains or worth of a franchise and i could say some may make a case in the economy today it could actually decrease , that and the Habs with the arena as the Flagship franchise worth 420 does not make S Ont worth 400 it cant we would need the wall street logic that created the mortgage booms we saw decimate N American and other world economies as our guide ,we must work from conseravative terms about the dollar amounts because of that situaion and its not done yet see posts about food banks and thats not just here , theres lots to add and consider