News Article: Babcock says Hainsey will play with Rielly according to Dave McCarthy (Twitter)

[Funk21]

I mean the guy literally won the cup as a #2 a few months ago.

Well why don't we pay him 10 million a year and sign him to 8 years, based on your logic he is the best defense in the world for winning a cup. Nashville's defense was running circles around the Pens if it wasn't for the fact that Murray stood on his head and that the Preds had nobody down the middle it would have been a possible upset.

Hainsey is not a top pairing D man regardless of where he played on a very injury riddled Pens D that yes won the cup. The cup is a 7 game series, not 82. Lastly to my point stated earlier things would have looked very different had Johansen not been injured and Rinne could stop a beach-ball in Pitts.

 

[Mr Hockey]

You didn't say top 4 you implying he is good enough to play top pairing minutes which he is not on a consistent basis.

So he is not good enough to play 20-22 minutes a game?

 

[saltming]

Well why don't we pay him 10 million a year and sign him to 8 years, based on your logic he is the best defense in the world for winning a cup. Nashville's defense was running circles around the Pens if it wasn't for the fact that Murray stood on his head and that the Preds had nobody down the middle it would have been a possible upset.

Hainsey is not a top pairing D man regardless of where he played on a very injury riddled Pens D that yes won the cup. The cup is a 7 game series, not 82. Lastly to my point stated earlier things would have looked very different had Johansen not been injured and Rinne could stop a beach-ball in Pitts.

Are you diliberatly trying to be illogical? Why would you sign any 36 year old player to an 8 year deal? Not to mention you can't unless you are resigning the player.
Hainsey adds to our defense in the top 4. Is he Doughty or Keith? Nope, but he is still a player that makes our top 4 better. That's it.

 

[zeke]

Well why don't we pay him 10 million a year and sign him to 8 years, based on your logic he is the best defense in the world for winning a cup. Nashville's defense was running circles around the Pens if it wasn't for the fact that Murray stood on his head and that the Preds had nobody down the middle it would have been a possible upset.

Hainsey is not a top pairing D man regardless of where he played on a very injury riddled Pens D that yes won the cup. The cup is a 7 game series, not 82. Lastly to my point stated earlier things would have looked very different had Johansen not been injured and Rinne could stop a beach-ball in Pitts.

good, because all we need him to be is our #4 - which is less than what he's been for his career.

and even better, we're paying him like a #5/6.

 

[biotk]

Well why don't we pay him 10 million a year and sign him to 8 years, based on your logic he is the best defense in the world for winning a cup.

You seem to think that the only options are the furthest extremes. Thank goodness Leafs management is more pragmatic and logical.

 

[Its not your fault]

You didn't say top top 4 you implying he is good enough to play top pairing minutes which he is not on a consistent basis.

Then you can bet on a line shuffle.

 

[PuckMagi]

Well why don't we pay him 10 million a year and sign him to 8 years, based on your logic he is the best defense in the world for winning a cup. Nashville's defense was running circles around the Pens if it wasn't for the fact that Murray stood on his head and that the Preds had nobody down the middle it would have been a possible upset.

Hainsey is not a top pairing D man regardless of where he played on a very injury riddled Pens D that yes won the cup. The cup is a 7 game series, not 82. Lastly to my point stated earlier things would have looked very different had Johansen not been injured and Rinne could stop a beach-ball in Pitts.

We had cap space for the next 2 seasons. There weren't many good UFA defenders available who were willing to sign 2 year deals.

If we don't sign Hainsey... then do we just not sign any UFA defenders and play under the cap? Who should we have signed instead?

We can afford him for the next 2 years and he'll make our team better. That's all that matters.

 

[Funk21]

Are you diliberatly trying to be illogical? Why would you sign any 36 year old player to an 8 year deal? Not to mention you can't unless you are resigning the player.
Hainsey adds to our defense in the top 4. Is he Doughty or Keith? Nope, but he is still a player that makes our top 4 better. That's it.

Seriously if I actually have to answer your question god help you.

Why is it so hard for everybody to understand this, I don't think Hainsey is the worst player in the world but if we are trying to build for a SC contender having him play on the top pairing is not going to cut it. Furthermore, he should be slotted on a contender at 4, 5 or 6. Ideally bottom pairing who can move up in a pinch.

 

[thewave]

Seriously if I actually have to answer your question god help you.

Why is it so hard for everybody to understand this, I don't think Hainsey is the worst player in the world but if we are trying to build for a SC contender having him play on the top pairing is not going to cut it. Furthermore, he should be slotted on a contender at 4, 5 or 6. Ideally bottom pairing who can move up in a pinch.

Marleau and Hainsey cost us money. The other options would have cost us picks, prospects and players. Robbing Peter to pay Paul is not a good developmental option. We robbed peter to pay ourselves with an upgrade.

What's so hard to get? We have all our picks and prospects to keep developing.

 

[Funk21]

We had cap space for the next 2 seasons. There weren't many good UFA defenders available who were willing to sign 2 year deals.

If we don't sign Hainsey... then do we just not sign any UFA defenders and play under the cap? Who should we have signed instead?

We can afford him for the next 2 years and he'll make our team better. That's all that matters.

How has our defence gotten better? I'm sorry but at best the TML brasses moves this offseason have just been status qou regarding NHL slotted players. Yes we brought in the two swede's, love our two first picks but nobody knows if they can play in the NHL or how long our picks will take to be ready.

Look we go out and sign Marleau to an awful contract, Bealieu cost the Sabres a third. I would take a 24 year old kid with huge upside signed for 2*2.4 than a 35+ being paid 3 and we know exactly what he is a 4 at best. Why didn't we go after any of the D Vegas grabbed in the expansion draft.

Look if Hainsey is playing bottom pairing or number 4 then I'm okay with this move, if he was brought in to be a top pairing D then Some serious questioning needs to be addressed at the GM.

 

[Funk21]

Marleau and Hainsey cost us money. The other options would have cost us picks, prospects and players. Robbing Peter to pay Paul is not a good developmental option. We robbed peter to pay ourselves with an upgrade.

What's so hard to get? We have all our picks and prospects to keep developing.

At some point you have to spend some of those assets to get players you need. Already we have a glut of players who could be flipped, Sosh/Rychel(because of Waivers)/etc. If those players are part of the teams long term focus why not flip Komarov or JVR or Bozak to get a solid young top four RHD.

 

[Mr Hockey]

Seriously if I actually have to answer your question god help you.

Why is it so hard for everybody to understand this, I don't think Hainsey is the worst player in the world but if we are trying to build for an SC contender having him play on the top pairing is not going to cut it. Furthermore, he should be slotted on a contender at 4, 5 or 6. Ideally, a bottom pairing who can move up in a pinch.

Hansley is not here to win us a Cup this year or the next ... The Leafs are going to put on their serious pants on in 2019-20 season.

 

[LeafingTheWay]

How has our defence gotten better? I'm sorry but at best the TML brasses moves this offseason have just been status qou regarding NHL slotted players. Yes we brought in the two swede's, love our two first picks but nobody knows if they can play in the NHL or how long our picks will take to be ready.

Look we go out and sign Marleau to an awful contract, Bealieu cost the Sabres a third. I would take a 24 year old kid with huge upside signed for 2*2.4 than a 35+ being paid 3 and we know exactly what he is a 4 at best. Why didn't we go after any of the D Vegas grabbed in the expansion draft.

Look if Hainsey is playing bottom pairing or number 4 then I'm okay with this move, if he was brought in to be a top pairing D then Some serious questioning needs to be addressed at the GM.

I'm no expert but:

1) I think they brought in Hainsey knowing/assuming that the Rielly-Hainsey pair is the 2nd pairing. Given that Gardiner-Zaistev continue their top-pairing role, I like this:

Gardiner - Zaistev
Rielly - Hainsey
Rosen - Carrick

2) Not sure why you call Bealieu a '24 year old kid with huge upside'. He's their slightly-worse version of Connor Carrick, which is fine but nothing spectacular. The Leafs wanted a stable partner beside Rielly, not some kid with inconsistency issues in Bealieu (I actually wanted Bealieu before we signed Borgman/Rosen to contracts for competition purposes between them and Marincin/Dermott/Nielsen for that last LHD spot). I don't like the Hainsey signing particularly either, but I'd rather have him than Bealieu. Bealieu also can't play the right side properly (if I'm not mistaken).

 

[taurine330]

Hansley is not here to win us a Cup this year or the next ... The Leafs are going to put on their serious pants on in 2019-20 season.

That's not correct thinking. You're limiting yourself by just having that mindset and thus missing a great opportunity to win.

 

[Mr Hockey]

That's not correct thinking. You're limiting yourself by just having that mindset and thus missing a great opportunity to win.

Leafs are in not in a win now situation, they are still developing mode for another year or two ...

 

[zeke]

beaulieu stinks. like worse than marincin/carrick/etc.

is that what this guy wanted over hainsey? yikes.

 

[biotk]

How has our defence gotten better? I'm sorry but at best the TML brasses moves this offseason have just been status qou regarding NHL slotted players. Yes we brought in the two swede's, love our two first picks but nobody knows if they can play in the NHL or how long our picks will take to be ready.

Look we go out and sign Marleau to an awful contract, Bealieu cost the Sabres a third. I would take a 24 year old kid with huge upside signed for 2*2.4 than a 35+ being paid 3 and we know exactly what he is a 4 at best. Why didn't we go after any of the D Vegas grabbed in the expansion draft.

Look if Hainsey is playing bottom pairing or number 4 then I'm okay with this move, if he was brought in to be a top pairing D then Some serious questioning needs to be addressed at the GM.

If the Leafs had been the team who traded a third for Beaulieu they would have either simply turned around and lost him in the expansion draft, or the other possibility - which may have been required because of the rules around the expansion draft and pre-expansion draft trades are complicated but in some ways seem to indicate that they might have been required to protect that newly acquired problematic 24-year-old LHD which would have meant exposing 23-year-old RHD Carrick to Vegas. As this was also before the entry draft and at a time when the Leafs probably felt that their chances of getting a great RHD prospect like Liljegren were slim to none, they would have probably had to make a costly deal with Vegas to take someone other than Carrick - and you can guarantee that Vegas entering said negotiations would have known full well how hard up for RHD the Leafs were at the time.

The issues around the expansion draft meant that Beaulieu was both cheap and expensive at the same time for most teams.

That also answers the question as to why we didn't go after any of the D Vegas acquired in the ED. Really what D that Vegas acquired should the Leafs really want? Getting any of them before the ED would have required them to expose Carrick. Getting any of them after the ED means dealing with Vegas, and they don't seem to be giving away players for free. I didn't see any D on Vegas worth going after. Hainsey cost us nothing but a salary.

Hainsey will play top 4 minutes at ES, and probably play the most PK time on the team. He is great in that role, and will also be a great role player for the upcoming D prospects and be willing to take on a lesser role in year 2 (or possibly late year 1) as some of those prospects start to take on a larger role, while at the same time always being available to eat huge minutes if injuries require it. He is a great addition, period.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I'm no expert but:

1) I think they brought in Hainsey knowing/assuming that the Rielly-Hainsey pair is the 2nd pairing. Given that Gardiner-Zaistev continue their top-pairing role, I like this:

Gardiner - Zaistev
Rielly - Hainsey
Rosen - Carrick

2) Not sure why you call Bealieu a '24 year old kid with huge upside'. He's their slightly-worse version of Connor Carrick, which is fine but nothing spectacular. The Leafs wanted a stable partner beside Rielly, not some kid with inconsistency issues in Bealieu (I actually wanted Bealieu before we signed Borgman/Rosen to contracts for competition purposes between them and Marincin/Dermott/Nielsen for that last LHD spot). I don't like the Hainsey signing particularly either, but I'd rather have him than Bealieu. Bealieu also can't play the right side properly (if I'm not mistaken).

I would not assume Rielly-Hainsey is going to be the 2nd pairing. The top 4 will likely play pretty equal in terms of minutes, and I fully expect Rielly to get the hardest minutes out of our core again next year. Considering Hainsey's previous roles, and the role he's likely going to play beside Rielly (complimentary player who will allow Rielly to have a little bit more peace of mind and freedom to take more risks), I still fully expect them to handle to more traditional "1st pairing role".

It's better than what the Leafs were icing last year, and Gardiner-Zaitsev will be one of the best 2nd pairings in the league.

 

[Lightsol]

beaulieu stinks. like worse than marincin/carrick/etc.

is that what this guy wanted over hainsey? yikes.

But it makes PERFECT sense if you're using the insanely stupid Erik Karlsson "best defense is a good offense" approach to building a defensive core. Who needs actual defense? That's what the goalie is for!

 

[zeke]

But it makes PERFECT sense if you're using the insanely stupid Erik Karlsson "best defense is a good offense" approach to building a defensive core. Who needs actual defense? That's what the goalie is for!

but he's not even good offensively, though he did leech some points from the habs' great PP.

I mean even Hainsey outscored Beaulieu at even strength last year.

 

[PuckMagi]

How has our defence gotten better? I'm sorry but at best the TML brasses moves this offseason have just been status qou regarding NHL slotted players. Yes we brought in the two swede's, love our two first picks but nobody knows if they can play in the NHL or how long our picks will take to be ready.

Look we go out and sign Marleau to an awful contract, Bealieu cost the Sabres a third. I would take a 24 year old kid with huge upside signed for 2*2.4 than a 35+ being paid 3 and we know exactly what he is a 4 at best. Why didn't we go after any of the D Vegas grabbed in the expansion draft.

Look if Hainsey is playing bottom pairing or number 4 then I'm okay with this move, if he was brought in to be a top pairing D then Some serious questioning needs to be addressed at the GM.

So you think it's better to play way under the cap and have wasted cap space as opposed to having Marleau and Hainsey?

Please tell me how wasted cap space helps us win games.

edit: and do you seriously think the Leafs would be better with with Beaulieu instead of Marleau and Hainsey? We're trying to win a cup. Pretty sure we're a much better team with Marleau and Hainsey compared to having Beaulieu and a bunch of wasted cap space.

 

[LeafingTheWay]

I would not assume Rielly-Hainsey is going to be the 2nd pairing. The top 4 will likely play pretty equal in terms of minutes, and I fully expect Rielly to get the hardest minutes out of our core again next year. Considering Hainsey's previous roles, and the role he's likely going to play beside Rielly (complimentary player who will allow Rielly to have a little bit more peace of mind and freedom to take more risks), I still fully expect them to handle to more traditional "1st pairing role".

It's better than what the Leafs were icing last year, and Gardiner-Zaitsev will be one of the best 2nd pairings in the league.

I agree that the difference between their usage wont be a big difference hut disagree on Hainsey being able to handle the role effectively. I think it's more of a recency bias thing going on with him. IMO He's simalar/slightly worse than Hunwick when handling the puck but his defensive game is better. He's going to **** off a lot of people when they watch him regularly. He'll be fine in a #4 role but anything higher is worrisome.

Not sure if you know my opinion on Rielly but I think he's our best offensive weapon on D easily. I think with Burns like usage he's capable of putting up 50 ppints or higher. He just hasn't had the usage previously to show it off since he's been buried in tough usage.

 

[thewave]

At some point you have to spend some of those assets to get players you need. Already we have a glut of players who could be flipped, Sosh/Rychel(because of Waivers)/etc. If those players are part of the teams long term focus why not flip Komarov or JVR or Bozak to get a solid young top four RHD.

We upgraded our team with Hainsey and Marleau. We spent money instead. It bought us a better team. If we choose to sell players we can can now get futures instead of players or players or both. We are in a stronger position now than had we traded JVR Bozak for a D and then scrambled to find a replacement for depth which would likely be us trading futures.

Basically we are not ready to spend assets on other assets yet unless its a 1 for 1 and even then that trade may create another hole we can't patch, yet... For lack of depth.

 

[The CyNick]

How has our defence gotten better? I'm sorry but at best the TML brasses moves this offseason have just been status qou regarding NHL slotted players. Yes we brought in the two swede's, love our two first picks but nobody knows if they can play in the NHL or how long our picks will take to be ready.

Look we go out and sign Marleau to an awful contract, Bealieu cost the Sabres a third. I would take a 24 year old kid with huge upside signed for 2*2.4 than a 35+ being paid 3 and we know exactly what he is a 4 at best. Why didn't we go after any of the D Vegas grabbed in the expansion draft.

Look if Hainsey is playing bottom pairing or number 4 then I'm okay with this move, if he was brought in to be a top pairing D then Some serious questioning needs to be addressed at the GM.

I guess our management followed the same philosophy about Hainsey that the reigning Stanley Cup champs had. They seemed to think Hainsey would work on their top pair and then they had a parade.

 

[The CyNick]

At some point you have to spend some of those assets to get players you need. Already we have a glut of players who could be flipped, Sosh/Rychel(because of Waivers)/etc. If those players are part of the teams long term focus why not flip Komarov or JVR or Bozak to get a solid young top four RHD.

I'm guessing because there is no market for guys like Sosh and Rychel because they are fringe NHL players, and the price for a solid young top four D would be Nylander or Marner, and we don't want to pay that. It's fun to play fantasy GM and just say why don't we trade Carrick for Karlsson, but it's more fun to keep the conversation grounded in reality. You'll get there, don't worry.