Speculation: Babcock 2015: Who still has hope?

[Bullseye]

They will go with some up and coming young coach, selected by Dubas, who I believe will be the new GM.

I don't think that Shanahan brought Dubas in here to be an AGM to someone else. Maybe I'm giving Shanahan too much credit here but I think he knew that this team wasn't good enough to compete for a cup when he was hired. So he hired Dubas, gave Nonis a year to prove him wrong and at the same time it gives Dubas a chance to get a feel for the NHL.

Insightful post and I think you are right but only if Babcock signs elsewhere - I still think he is the first choice.

Dubas is GM material for sure. What roll will Hunter play going forward if Dubas is the GM? Do you think Hunter content to stay in scouting and player development ongoing or will he become the new AGM and concentrate on feeding the best players through the Marlies?

 

[Pyrophorus]

All I ask is that the GM gets hired before the next coach.

 

[leafs1n67]

Insightful post and I think you are right but only if Babcock signs elsewhere - I still think he is the first choice.

Dubas is GM material for sure. What roll will Hunter play going forward if Dubas is the GM? Do you think Hunter content to stay in scouting and player development ongoing or will he become the new AGM and concentrate on feeding the best players through the Marlies?

Yeah, I think Hunter would prefer to be in the background so to speak. I think him and Dubas will work well together. Both have an eye for talent and are Shanahan's choices.

I think that Babcock might be too big of a personality for a young GM. Don't get me wrong I like Babcock, I just think that Shanahan will trust in Dubas's plan and Dubas seems to think outside the box a bit.

 

[21ByTorML12]

No...No...i need more lemon pledge

 

[CalgaryLeaf*]

Insightful post and I think you are right but only if Babcock signs elsewhere - I still think he is the first choice.

Dubas is GM material for sure. What roll will Hunter play going forward if Dubas is the GM? Do you think Hunter content to stay in scouting and player development ongoing or will he become the new AGM and concentrate on feeding the best players through the Marlies?

I'd be absolutely shocked if they fired Nonis and handed Dubas the keys to the franchise.I think Hunter has a much better chance of landing the GM job.

 

[34]

Not a chance.

Why would he torture himself and come to Toronto.

 

[SenorDingDong]

Not a chance.

Why would he torture himself and come to Toronto.

 

[socko]

I still have hope he doesn't want to come here. I don't ever want our team to play hockey like Detroit. The only thing I really like about Detroit is Datsyuk and sometimes I wonder what he might have looked like on a team that plays real hockey. But he's 36 now and I don't even really want him anymore. I would take a couple of their prospects but they can keep their boring coach.

 

[Morbo]

I still have hope he doesn't want to come here. I don't ever want our team to play hockey like Detroit. The only thing I really like about Detroit is Datsyuk and sometimes I wonder what he might have looked like on a team that plays real hockey. But he's 36 now and I don't even really want him anymore. I would take a couple of their prospects but they can keep their boring coach.

Yeah, let's not play like Detroit with their soon to be 25 year playoff streak.

Because that would really suck.

 

[Durkin67]

#BABWATCH2015



Well, with the rebuild on, things look gloomy for Babcock to want to come coach our lousy team. But I think the major influences for Babcock to come to Toronto are still there:

• Leafs President Brendan Shanahan, who played under Babcock in Detroit
• Deep Pockets via Rogers that will ensure that of all the offers Babcock gets in the summer, the Leafs will be the top of the pile. Could see them tabling $10M/5-years if that's what they needed to do.
• Raising the bar for coaches in the NHL. I think it's also quite probable that Babcock includes a clause in a contract that makes him "un-fireable". I don't know how if would be worded, possibly if he is fired they pay-out his full remaining contract immediately?
• Winning in Toronto: This certainly has some appeal. He's easily got a good 5-10 years of coaching left in him, and adding a Stanley Cup in Toronto to his resume would look absolutely golden. If he signs for $5M/yr for 4 years, and manages to win a Cup in Toronto in that span... what will his next deal be like?? It would be a license to print money. Not to mention the glory and recognition. He'd probably get the Order of Canada, FFS.

Of course, there are lots of factors going against us. A ****** team in the beginning stages of a tear-down/rebuild... not a great amount of prospects coming up that hold much promise. It's pretty reasonable to say that a 4-year contract wouldn't be enough time.

Maybe Babcock would say, "I'll take a 4-year deal in Detroit and we can see about Toronto in 2019-20."

Anyways, curious to see where everyone is at. I know the Gloom-o-meter is off the charts right now, so I don't think people hold much hope, but I for one remain convinced that Babcock is coming in 2015.

Have at 'er!

There is no contract which includes an "immunity" clause. that's what makes it an agreement. It's about clarifying the terms and conditions, and if those items aren't respected, there is a remedy available, called dissolution.


But, I agree. with the basis of your argument You have to send a message which everyone understands, being that the coach is the one in control, not the players. The inmates have been running the asylum long enough. For me, the solution is term. You commit to 60 million over ten years and you're not firing the coach. Not even MLSE will sign off on that kind of money (to terminate someone).

Failing that, you make him Coach and GM and Nonis becomes his executive assistant. 6.5 million over 5 or 6 years with a direct line of communication to Shanny on all executive decisions.


I think you present Babcock with both the authority he needs to have an impact along with the challenge of re-establishing Canada's most popular team as a contender, and the monetary compensation commensurate with that opportunity, and unless he has already determined that he wants to stay with DET, you've likely got the best chance of any club vying for his services.

 

[Durkin67]

He's the fastest, but that doesn't mean fittest. The whole team's out of shape if you ask me.

Nobody could look at Kessel, then look at Polak, and say Kessel is fitter.

 

[asdf]

I still have hope he doesn't want to come here. I don't ever want our team to play hockey like Detroit. The only thing I really like about Detroit is Datsyuk and sometimes I wonder what he might have looked like on a team that plays real hockey. But he's 36 now and I don't even really want him anymore. I would take a couple of their prospects but they can keep their boring coach.

This. Babcock didn't become this gold standard of coaching until he coached stacked rosters in Detroit and Team Canada. He may be the answer but I have seen this script before (Maurice, Wilson, Carlyle) where a coach is hyped up as a savior only to not have it work out.

On top of that, I am not a fan of his boring style, like you mentioned. I know the counter-argument will be that it's better to win playing boring hockey than lose playing exciting hockey, but the two don't have to be mutually exclusive. Quenneville and Boudreau are two examples of coaches that have their team playing well while also being somewhat entertaining.

 

[Preisst*]

I don't think we have much hope getting Babcock to sign here and suspect that he remains with Detroit.

I also think that if Babcock did entertain signing with the Leafs he'd probably insist that Kessel was gone first.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I like winning, and Babcock is a winner. But I can't help but recall the games against Detroit were boring hockey. I guess I can hold my nose if we win more games.

 

[Bullseye]

I like winning, and Babcock is a winner. But I can't help but recall the games against Detroit were boring hockey. I guess I can hold my nose if we win more games.

Yup but boring means stupid stuff isn't happening and that's what I like. Team Canada won a boring game to take the Gold Medal in Sochi. Is ok.

 

[Rare Jewel]

From the OP.

Deep Pockets via Rogers that will ensure that of all the offers Babcock gets in the summer, the Leafs will be the top of the pile. Could see them tabling $10M/5-years if that's what they needed to do.

You must be joking...

The only way he should get anywhere near $4-5M is if he's in a duel role as coach and G.M.


But then I would have some questions about that, Like "You've never been a GM before Mike" and now we're going to give to the keys to the castle. Things like that.




Here's what I would like to see

1. If they(Shanahan) doesn't see Nonis in at least the medium term future, Then relieve him of the job tomorrow. Having him dangling in this false position really isn't fair to him and looks like a fairly un-professional thing to do by a rookie President.

2. If Nonis isn't the guy, Make it clear to the public/fans that either Shanahan or Hunter or even both are the people making the player personnel decisions, Or if not alert us to the search of a new GM that will work with Shanahan/Hunter/Dubas/Pridham

3. Regardless if the G.M position is filled or not, Collectively go get the new coach. If it's Babcock then this is a moot point, Seeing part of the allure to coming here should be that he'll fill both roles(GM/HC) and get the control he can't get in Detroit.

But if he isn't, McLellan will do quite nicely. Or even show a bit of creativity and bring Guy Boucher back to the NHL; Something like that. But as stated previously, I'm a little wary about giving Babcock all this power he seems to be after anyway, So this may be my preference at the moment.



That's all, Just a little more transparency please.

 

[HellasLEAF]

this Babcock hoping is getting on the sad side. he simply will not come at this stage in his career to a rebuilding teams to sit through those years.

We'll get someone else.

 

[The Thin White Duke]

He'll come to make sure we don't ruin McDavid by the next Olympics

 

[Durkin67]

this Babcock hoping is getting on the sad side. he simply will not come at this stage in his career to a rebuilding teams to sit through those years.

We'll get someone else.

What stage of his career is he in?

He was never leaving DET while his daughter was in school. That has changed, and he is in the driver's seat. He's hardly long in the tooth or in the twilight of his career.

I would think it has more to do with the level of control he has than how difficult the task at hand ( full rebuild) might be.

 

[Morlu]

They will have to offer him boat loads of money but since it doesn't count against the salary cap, who cares?

 

[Pyrophorus]

On the flip side, what more can he do with Detroit?

Blashill won't wait forever in GR, either?

The latter is a younger new coach, who has experience with building NHL players
Keefe is another idea, with his connection to Dubas
McDavid could also sway Babcock.

Many coaches may become available this off-season:
McLellan, MacLean, Julien, Tippett

 

[Beaviz81]

On the flip side, what more can he do with Detroit?

Blashill won't wait forever in GR, either?

The latter is a younger new coach, who has experience with building NHL players
Keefe is another idea, with his connection to Dubas
McDavid could also sway Babcock.

Many coaches may become available this off-season:
McLellan, MacLean, Julien, Tippett

From what I have read of this I think you should hire Blashill instead. I mean you are gonna suck for a while even if you get the best coach in the world so why not hire a young and talented coach?

 

[613Leafer]

On the flip side, what more can he do with Detroit?

Blashill won't wait forever in GR, either?

The latter is a younger new coach, who has experience with building NHL players
Keefe is another idea, with his connection to Dubas
McDavid could also sway Babcock.

Many coaches may become available this off-season:
McLellan, MacLean, Julien, Tippett

If Babcock stays in Detroit, that means he's signing a brand new long-term big-money deal, which eliminates Blashill's shot in Detroit for at minimum 3 years, probably longer.

If Babcock is re-signed, I'd imagine Blashill would be available pretty quickly. I doubt Holland forces him to stay when he's got his guy locked in long-term at the NHL level.

And like you said, there are a few other decent names. I'd add John Stevens as a target too. LA's defensive coach (they're the top team in the league defensively over the past 5 years), he won a Calder Cup as an AHL coach, he developed Giroux, Richards, and Carter, and he's the coach that lead Philly to that huge bounce-back season (going from 2nd last in the league to the Conference Finals the subsequent season).

 

[Median]

I wouldn't be opposed to him being the GM and coach. We're probably going to be tanking for another 2-4 years anyways, more mistakes means higher picks!