Confirmed with Link: Avs re-sign Nuke to 8-year, $6.125M AAV deal

[Hasbro]

People make mistakes. Two careers were ruined that evening and I’m sure if he could go back in time things would be a lot different. It’s an intense game with a lot of emotions. Unfortunate for sure but I do think Bert was remorseful and regretted it. He was never the same after

Stopped juicing.

 

[Hasbro]

Next John LeClare?

Bit different because unlike the Legion of Doom, Nuke actually won something.

 

[the_fan]

Not sure we watched the same Nathan MacKinnon because, dude, what makes you think the most stubborn player in all of hockey is going to make adjustments to his crash-and-bang style? Look how long it's taking him to make adjustments in OT and knowing when to back off a puck battle--he's still struggling with that NOW.

Jarome Iginla is probably a good comparison, though IMO Iggy had more hockey sense than Nate, though Nate had more raw athleticism and talent. He lost a few steps in the latter part of his career but still had that elite shot that allowed him to still put up respectable numbers as a power play specialist. But once the strength and power really regressed and he just got pushed off the puck way too easily, it was over.

Mind you, he was thirty-nine when that finally happened, but again, I don't see Nate making adjustments to his game. He's going to be a bull in a china shop for the remainder of his career no matter what.

Again, I see him age well, you see the opposite, we'll just revisit this in 10 years

 

[Pokecheque]

People make mistakes. Two careers were ruined that evening and I’m sure if he could go back in time things would be a lot different. It’s an intense game with a lot of emotions. Unfortunate for sure but I do think Bert was remorseful and regretted it. He was never the same after

Nah. F*** him. Dumbass man-child once whined to his wife that Clark Gillies was being too hard on him when he was with the Islanders. The guy had enough power and strength to literally kill someone with his bare hands (and he nearly DID) and yet was about as tough as a toddler dressed as Rainbow Brite. A giant (literally) waste of God-given talent. He did the exact same thing to Moore that he had done to Eric Messier in the 2001 playoffs (use his full weight to drive someone's head into the ice) except with Messier, he had a lot less leverage since both of them were already on the ice. Luckily for Mess, all he got was a sizeable cut on that sizeable nose of his. That man deserved to have his career ruined and then some since he literally ended someone else's (not to mention deeply affected the man's quality of life for all time) and those crocodile tears he shed at the presser mean nothing. All he ever said about it after that was "It is what it is."

That wasn't "a mistake," it was a premeditated move to deliberately and severely injure another player, and he succeeded.

 

[katfude]

 

[Avsboy]

Next John LeClare?

Bit different because unlike the Legion of Doom, Nuke actually won something.

LeClair won a Cup in 93

 

[Hasbro]

LeClair won a Cup in 93

And never broke out until going to Philly. However, the LOD was togather for 2 and a half years and never won anything yet GMs and fans have been chasing that ghost for 25 years.

 

[TomppaKoo]

Oh I agree it’s unrealistic for them to all age well. Some of them are falling off. Just saying it’s possible 2 of them say Mack/Rants are still close to elite past 30 and 1 of Nuke/Landy are still productive come playoff team. You’d still have Makar/Byram as well.

I don’t think it’s better and I get scoring is up. My point is there still good. Stamkos is still a first line talent. Duchene was a legitimate 1st line caliber player last year regardless of scoring increases. That it’s an average not a guarantee. That you can’t pencil in everyone falling off a cliff at 31 just like you can’t assume they’ll all still be very good.

For my money I bet Rants ends up being good for a very long time and MacKinnon will be interesting because his game shouldn’t age in theory but his determination/work ethic is as elite as it gets.

As for Nuke? I’m not going to pretend to know anything about that. We’ve all been hilariously wrong about him from day 1. He’s followed no trends or averages. Who knows what his ceiling/peak even looks like at point.

A 30 - 32 years old top athlete is not that old yet. I don't see why any of the Mikko/MacK/Nuke would lose too much of a step within 5 years.

Mikko has been skating better than ever this year and been like a wind at times - see his breakaway in the previous game as an example. I bet he is just going to develop better and better physically and speed wise for a couple of years, still. He is a big man and does not really play that physically - gives an occational hit, but is not running around looking for hits. He'll be fine.

MacK will be 32? - strength is the last thing to go away and there are sprinters who have made their personal bests at age of 36-37. I don't see why he could not keep the speed and the explosiveness + he takes so good care of himself that he should be fine - barring an injury.

Nuke is a big body like Mikko and these big men are generally more durable than smaller guys. Nuke does not play very physical, either. He'll be fine.

The only one I am worried about is Landy. Those knee injuries are not easy to come back 100% and he is abit older than the 3 other guys, too.

 

[henchman21]

A 30 - 32 years old top athlete is not that old yet. I don't see why any of the Mikko/MacK/Nuke would lose too much of a step within 5 years.

Mikko has been skating better than ever this year and been like a wind at times - see his breakaway in the previous game as an example. I bet he is just going to develop better and better physically and speed wise for a couple of years, still. He is a big man and does not really play that physically - gives an occational hit, but is not running around looking for hits. He'll be fine.

MacK will be 32? - strength is the last thing to go away and there are sprinters who have made their personal bests at age of 36-37. I don't see why he could not keep the speed and the explosiveness + he takes so good care of himself that he should be fine - barring an injury.

Nuke is a big body like Mikko and these big men are generally more durable than smaller guys. Nuke does not play very physical, either. He'll be fine.

The only one I am worried about is Landy. Those knee injuries are not easy to come back 100% and he is abit older than the 3 other guys, too.

Explain to me a statistic then....

In the history of the NHL, there have been 22 seasons of a NHL players scoring 80+ points in their 32 year old season. At 30, that number is 57. At 28, that number is 97. At 26, it is 111.

 

[AvsInRhodey]

Explain to me a statistic then....

In the history of the NHL, there have been 22 seasons of a NHL players scoring 80+ points in their 32 year old season. At 30, that number is 57. At 28, that number is 97. At 26, it is 111.

That's an an eye opening stat. If you have it handy, what are the numbers for 31 year olds and a 29 year olds? 31 is the critical year in my mind for Mack, Nuke, and Lehks where it's last year I think we still have a team built to contend. Mikko will be 29 (almost 30) that same year.

 

[henchman21]

That's an an eye opening stat. If you have it handy, what are the numbers for 31 year olds and a 29 year olds? 31 is the critical year in my mind for Mack, Nuke, and Lehks where it's last year I think we still have a team built to contend. Mikko will be 29 (almost 30) that same year.

31- 43
29-69 (nice)

 

[Chiarelli]

Explain to me a statistic then....

In the history of the NHL, there have been 22 seasons of a NHL players scoring 80+ points in their 32 year old season. At 30, that number is 57. At 28, that number is 97. At 26, it is 111.

Regular season becomes less important as you age, become more accomplished, and focus on winning rather than personal stats. The stat to look at would be PPG in the playoffs by age.

 

[AvsInRhodey]

31- 43
29-69 (nice)

Thanks for that. Glad to see that the biggest percentage drop is from 31 to 32 (almost 50% drop), and NOT from 30 to 31 (25% drop). I know this is just one stat based on a generic search (80+ points), but it's still good to see the most critical drop happens once you hit 32 and not 31.

 

[Ceremony]

I think the best case scenario for a year 6/7/8 MacKinnon is something like current Ovechkin, where the shot and the attacking instincts are enough to keep him productive if not a completely 200 feet player.

Year 6/7/8 Nichushkin will have continued the exponential progression of his Avalanche career so far, so expect a 300 goal season by the end of the decade.

 

[henchman21]

Regular season becomes less important as you age, become more accomplished, and focus on winning rather than personal stats. The stat to look at would be PPG in the playoffs by age.

It is really a similar story. The issues arise in playoff data as to what is the best cutoff in sample. Being a PPG in a 6 game series you lose, is much different than 22 games.

Thanks for that. Glad to see that the biggest percentage drop is from 31 to 32 (almost 50% drop), and NOT from 30 to 31 (25% drop). I know this is just one stat based on a generic search (80+ points), but it's still good to see the most critical drop happens once you hit 32 and not 31.

I would say percentage drops is misleading. From 26 to 30, you go from a pretty decent amount of players, to a relative few... then a tiny amount at 32. The biggest drops happen between 27-29. 23-26 is pretty consistent. Then after 30 it falls off a cliff. I'd keep in mind too... that naturally the cutoff being this high means you're really only sampling the very best players from each season. Not the overall league. Which skews the data to holding up better.

This is a few years old, but a pretty good analysis of aging curves in the NHL

A New Look at Aging Curves for NHL Skaters (part 1)

How do NHL players age? When do they peak? How quickly do they decline? Questions about player aging in the NHL have been debated for years, and an incredible amount of research has already been do…

hockey-graphs.com

I think the best case scenario for a year 6/7/8 MacKinnon is something like current Ovechkin, where the shot and the attacking instincts are enough to keep him productive if not a completely 200 feet player.

Year 6/7/8 Nichushkin will have continued the exponential progression of his Avalanche career so far, so expect a 300 goal season by the end of the decade.

Ovi is going to always be an outlier... generational players always are. The fact that he can still put up 50 goals when he's 36 is just absurd. Nobody has ever done that before.

Also, Ovi really doesn't do much anymore other than shoot the puck.

 

[TomppaKoo]

Explain to me a statistic then....

In the history of the NHL, there have been 22 seasons of a NHL players scoring 80+ points in their 32 year old season. At 30, that number is 57. At 28, that number is 97. At 26, it is 111.

I am not talking about statistics. I am talking about these 4 individuals. They are exceptional athletes compared to an average NHL statistics guy.

 

[henchman21]

I am not talking about statistics. I am talking about these 4 individuals. They are exceptional athletes compared to an average NHL statistics guy.

As a generalization here, the more a player relies on their athleticism vs brain, the worse they actually age in comparison. Sakic was never even close to the best athlete of his generation, but he aged remarkably well compared to his peers because he was one of the smartest players to ever play the game. Then take somebody like Vinny Lecavalier who was one of the most physically gifted players of his generation... he was a 100 point guy at 26. His age 30 season was the last time he scored 50 points. Was never above 40 after 31. There are tons of examples like this.

An exception (normally) comes with generational level talents. Outside of Orr, they all pretty much hold their abilities for a long time.

 

[Bill Peckerskull]

View attachment 599584

 

[TomppaKoo]

As a generalization here, the more a player relies on their athleticism vs brain, the worse they actually age in comparison. Sakic was never even close to the best athlete of his generation, but he aged remarkably well compared to his peers because he was one of the smartest players to ever play the game. Then take somebody like Vinny Lecavalier who was one of the most physically gifted players of his generation... he was a 100 point guy at 26. His age 30 season was the last time he scored 50 points. Was never above 40 after 31. There are tons of examples like this.

An exception (normally) comes with generational level talents. Outside of Orr, they all pretty much hold their abilities for a long time.

Are you trying to suggest, that Rantanen, for example is not an intellectual player? Your arguments are irrational. Read my first post again and try to comprehend it before making silly posts like this.

 

[henchman21]

Are you trying to suggest, that Rantanen, for example is not an intellectual player? Your arguments are irrational. Read my first post again and try to comprehend it before making silly posts like this.

I'm not saying Rants is a dummy at all. Just saying those that rely on physical gifts for an advantage tend to age poorly compared to those that use their brain. I'd think of the Avs forward group, Rants has the chance to age the best.

I think I might have touched a nerve here? If so, I apologize.

How are my arguments irrational? I'm simply stating that as players age, they tend to perform worse. There is a ton of data to support this. You can break down that data to see the types of player who age better and those who tend to age worse.

 

[Pokecheque]

I think I might have touched a nerve here? If so, I apologize.

Dude, you said things about the Finnish player and a Finnish guy read it! Shame on you!

 

[TomppaKoo]

I'm not saying Rants is a dummy at all. Just saying those that rely on physical gifts for an advantage tend to age poorly compared to those that use their brain. I'd think of the Avs forward group, Rants has the chance to age the best.

I think I might have touched a nerve here? If so, I apologize.

How are my arguments irrational? I'm simply stating that as players age, they tend to perform worse. There is a ton of data to support this. You can break down that data to see the types of player who age better and those who tend to age worse.

You are not touching any nerves, but your argumentation is like - Ok MacDavid scored 123 points last season, but since league average is 40 points / forward based on stats. He won't be close to 123 points this year.

That's idiotic.

 

[Pokecheque]

You are not touching any nerves, but your argumentation is like - Ok MacDavid scored 123 points last season, but since league average is 40 points / forward based on stats. He won't be close to 123 points this year.

That's idiotic.

You are making no sense.

 

[Chiarelli]

Honestly most of our players are complete dummies. One of the things that drives me nuts about the Avs its all athleticism and "character".

Landy is pretty smart but plays somewhat reckless/physical.
Rants is smart but lazy..
Cale is smart but relies on physical traits due to smaller size - ditto for G.
Toews is smart but similar story to Cale and G.
Byram I could see aging well.


Other than that they're all low IQ, try hards and good skaters on this team.
Rants and Byram are the only guy that will age nicely IMO

 

[GoNordiquesGo]

Lol... a year or so ago, the debate was whether the window was closing with Mac's new contract or not.
A Stanley Cup later, the talk is more about having another long run at it.
But to argue that after 4 more years the window will still be wide open is kind of crazy... not impossible of course. But unlikely. Doesn't mean they will compete for worst in the league either. But frontrunners... unlikely... the mega jump oin the cap will help them remain in contention until the to players start breaking down. But that will happen eventually...