Rumor: AVS Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents & Related Topics 2016-17 Part VII

[tigervixxxen]

Patrick and Hischier are a clear level above Jost.

Do we really need to be taking risks is also the question. As asset poor as we are we are going to use it on one of the riskier players in the top of the draft? What if the reverse Siemens happens and that dimension never comes where Liljegren can play NHL level defense? Just assume it will come just like puck skills could come for Siemens? And like Joem said its not like he's tearing up the second division Swedish league either. Are we really comfortable with that?

 

[CobraAcesS]

Patrick and Hischier are a clear level above Jost.

Do we really need to be taking risks is also the question. As asset poor as we are we are going to use it on one of the riskier players in the top of the draft? What if the reverse Siemens happens and that dimension never comes where Liljegren can play NHL level defense? Just assume it will come just like puck skills could come for Siemens? And like Joem said its not like he's tearing up the second division Swedish league either. Are we really comfortable with that?

Considering we have a relationship with his current club, maybe we actually develop the guy? There is plenty of strong scouting reports out there, so yeah based on what I've been able to dig up, yeah I'm comfortable with drafting him unless he completely craps the bed here in the second half.

Which also has not happened yet, even if it isn't a great start coming back from injury.

Drafting a defender high is always going to be a risk, but we are where we are because we refuse to take calculated risks. Every top D in every draft is a risk...

 

[JoemAvs]

Yeah I understood two teams wanting big high potential centers, but Tampa had the perfect partner for Hedman sitting there waiting for them and they drafted a winger.

I'm sorry but hell people are unsure if Patrick is a sure fire #1 center. So I don't see how it's any different... Especially since both of the forwards and D are considered weak at the top compared to other drafts.

McAvoy has the potential to be a #1 now I guess, and he went after Jost... If that's the level we're talking about here do we want McAvoy, or another Jost?

I did not want Jost at #10 last year, I desperately wanted Chychrun.
So McAvoy was not even really on my radar (as a RHD) because I was focused on the guy that was dropping for the wrong reasons IMO.

I am not really unsure about Patrick. I personally doubt that he will be better than Mac at the next level but IMO Mac/Patrick down the middle for the next decade is easily good enough to win a cup if the rest of the team is good enough and if Patrick (as well as Mac but I am way more concerned with Patrick) can stay healthy.

He is that big, two-way center that the Avs are really missing since ROR left.

So I really would not mind him. Same could be said for Hischier IMO. He is not as good a fit next to Mac but I love his offensive game and compete level.


With me you are preaching to the choir basically. I wanted Larsson in 2011, Jones in 2013, one of Provorov/Werenski in 2015 (yeah I even wanted them to lose late in the season to make it happen which they didn't do ) and Chychrun in 2016.

I would be ok with them picking D in the 1st in the next 5 drafts.

But this one is unique because aside from Liljegren who is a big wildcard right now, there simply are not many good Ds available that should be picked anywhere near the top5 (or even top10).

That said. I am not a huge Vilardi fan and Mittelstadt is also a pretty big wildcard.

If the Avs pick at #3 , I would go Liljegren.

But IMO right now the top two (arguably three with Vilardi but again I am not a fan) forwards are underrated in this draft right now. They are currently in a tier of their own at the top. And I don't like passing on that for positional reasons. Liljegren has plenty of time to show enough in the Allsvenskan to get back into that tier and make it easier for the Avs to pick him.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Patrick and Hischier are a clear level above Jost.

Do we really need to be taking risks is also the question. As asset poor as we are we are going to use it on one of the riskier players in the top of the draft? What if the reverse Siemens happens and that dimension never comes where Liljegren can play NHL level defense? Just assume it will come just like puck skills could come for Siemens? And like Joem said its not like he's tearing up the second division Swedish league either. Are we really comfortable with that?

Erik Karlsson can barely play NHL level defense lol, and I don't think Subban or Letang are much better there. However the NHL is going in that skating puck movement direction of not having to defend because you move the puck quickly.

Exampled by who the No.1s are who have won 8 of what the last 9 Stanley Cups if you include Lindstrom who is similar size to all of Doughty, Letang, and Kieth.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

That's not true... At all.

 

[CobraAcesS]

If the Avs pick at #3 , I would go Liljegren.

For me it's #2, as I do see the value in Patrick and MacK together.

#1 Patrick
#2 Liljegren

I'm just saying we've potentially been here before, and we're still looking for defense. If they can't get a young D in trade, I'd go Liljegren at #1 regardless IMO.

 

[Foppa]

Trade down if you are determined to take a defender and not BPA. Liljegren is almost guaranteed to fall, we've seen this scenario before. Trade down to #10 or so pick Liljegren/Foote/Valimaaki or whomever and get more picks.

Or trade the pic for one of the 2016 draft defender crop - any number of whom I'd take over any of the 2017 guys (the defenders I mean) and have the added benefit of a year of development and certainty.

I understand the rationale of choosing a defende I just personally can't see bypassing a Hischier or Vilardi, let alone a Patrick just to force yourself to take one first in this particular draft.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

I'll be pissed if the Avs pass on Patrick, Hischier, or Vilardi for Liljegren.


He's not on that level of a prospect at this point and the Avs aren't a team just needing one or two pieces to contend. We need help everywhere.


It absolutely has to be BPA and Liljegren is not the BPA at #2 or even #3.

 

[agentblack]

Trade down if you are determined to take a defender and not BPA. Liljegren is almost guaranteed to fall, we've seen this scenario before. Trade down to #10 or so pick Liljegren/Foote/Valimaaki or whomever and get more picks.

Or trade the pic for one of the 2016 draft defender crop - any number of whom I'd take over any of the 2017 guys (the defenders I mean) and have the added benefit of a year of development and certainty.

I understand the rationale of choosing a defende I just personally can't see bypassing a Hischier or Vilardi, let alone a Patrick just to force yourself to take one first in this particular draft.

I feel like we could be saying this the next 3 -4 drafts. Dont get me wrong i understand not wanting to pass up the fwd talent, we need it too, but you also cant wait for things to line up perfectly either.

unfortunately the only way for the Avs to get themselves out of the forward group in the top 5 they need to start winning ...much to everyones dismay

 

[JoemAvs]

I feel like we could be saying this the next 3 -4 drafts. Dont get me wrong i understand not wanting to pass up the fwd talent, we need it too, but you also cant wait for things to line up perfectly either.

unfortunately the only way for the Avs to get themselves out of the forward group in the top 5 they need to start winning ...much to everyones dismay

?

Not really.

Right now a defenseman is the clear cut favorite to go #1 in 2018.

It also looks like next year might be the best draft for Ds in ages and right now it looks like atleast 4 or 5 of those guys have a legit shot to go in the top5 or atleast the top10.

If the Avs want to draft a great D in 2018, they better suck again next season

We are just unlucky with timing (the perfect year to have a season like this one was basically in 2015 or 2018 if you want to go D or 2016 if you want a franchise guy like Matthews or Laine not 2017 when the Avs decided to be epically bad) and usually screw it up even when it is right in front of us (like last year) but there will be a D picked in the top4-5 that is worth it more often than not.

It just has never been the Avs doing it unfortunately.

 

[agentblack]

?

Not really.

Right now a defenseman is the clear cut favorite to go #1 in 2018.

It also looks like next year might be the best draft for Ds in ages and right now it looks like atleast 4 or 5 of those guys have a legit shot to go in the top5 or atleast the top10.

If the Avs want to draft a great D in 2018, they better suck again next season

We are just unlucky with timing and usually screw it up even when it is right in front of us (like last year) but there will be a D picked in the top4-5 that is worth it more often than not.

It just has never been the Avs doing it unfortunately.

I can almost guarantee you they will pick that russian kid Svetchnikov (sp?) over Dahlin

Ive seen this movie before, we will pick NP or Hischier, they'll be amazing , we sign a couple mid range D and end up with a way better record next season, make the playoffs and miss out on this great D core entirely next year.
And we'll draft another fwd.

Avs cinematic Universe part 3

 

[CobraAcesS]

?

Not really.

Right now a defenseman is the clear cut favorite to go #1 in 2018.

It also looks like next year might be the best draft for Ds in ages and right now it looks like atleast 4 or 5 of those guys have a legit shot to go in the top5 or atleast the top10.

If the Avs want to draft a great D in 2018, they better suck again next season

We are just unlucky with timing (the perfect year to have a season like this one was basically in 2015 or 2018 if you want to go D or 2016 if you want a franchise guy like Matthews or Laine not 2017 when the Avs decided to be epically bad) and usually screw it up even when it is right in front of us (like last year) but there will be a D picked in the top4-5 that is worth it more often than not.

It just has never been the Avs doing it unfortunately.

Maybe we are just as bad next season... However there is a lot of dead weight expected to be gone with young hungry forwards taking their place.

Unless they bring in guys to keep those younger faster kids down, we may not suck enough.

 

[JoemAvs]

I can almost guarantee you they will pick that russian kid Svetchnikov (sp?) over Dahlin

I know how this game goes, we will pick NP or Hischier, they'll be amazing , we sign a couple mid range D and end up with a way better record next season, make the playoffs and miss out on this great D core entirely next year.

Svechnikov.

But if they do that, I want them fired (unless they adress the D beforehand by say trading Duchene for Hanifin).

Svechnikov looks like an elite talent as well but I don't see anyone passing on Dahlin if he can live up to the hype next season (big If but that guy looks special ).


Well I don't think making the playoffs next season would be good for us but what can you do. If it happens, it happens.

As long as they don't force it by going all in and trading/overpaying for vets, it is what it is and I won't complain.

Pretty sure that there will be good Ds available at #15 next year as well. So far next years draft IMO looks special. I might be overhyping it a bit and there is still 1.5 years of hockey to play but IMO it looks good.


Also I think Sakic should learn a lot this season. With how hard it is to trade for young quality Ds and with how bad this team looks thanks to mainly our D, I really don't see them passing up a bonafide D in the draft if he is even close to BPA. If they do, this franchise is doomed anyways.

If there is ever a lesson learned from this season, it is how valuable Dman are in this league.

 

[tigervixxxen]

This wouldn't be as much of an issue if we had more MFing picks in each draft, where it's not Sophie's Choice constantly. Get us some more damn picks and assets is what I'm most concerned about. It's going to take more than one pick or one draft to fix this.

 

[lonelybadger]

Is puljuvari any good? If the avs trade for faulk should they trade ej/Barrie for puljuvari? And what is his non pajamas nickname?

 

[JoemAvs]

This wouldn't be as much of an issue if we had more MFing picks in each draft, where it's not Sophie's Choice constantly. Get us some more damn picks and assets is what I'm most concerned about. It's going to take more than one pick or one draft to fix this.

Yeah. But I am not in love with this draft.

So if we go for 1sts (trading our core guys is the only way we get those), make it 2018 1sts please. It is very early but there are already about 15 names I would pick right now over anyone going in the 8-12 range in 2017. Some of them will obviously fall off in the next 1.5 years but that draft looks deep as hell right now.

Load up on 2nd and 3rds (whatever you can get for our vets basically) in 2017 and for the love of god focus on defense.

If you pick a forward in the 1st, there is no shame in picking 5 Ds in the rest of the draft.