Rumor: AVS Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents & Drouin 2016-17 Part XIX

[Cousin Eddie]

What kind of deals do you guys make if we go full rebuild. I don't see Sakic doing it but if he did, what kind of deals do you guys make?

- I try to get Hanifin for Duchene. That's the basis. If I can squeeze more out I do but if not I make the deal straight up. Regardless if it's full rebuild or just a quick patch up over the summer, Duchene needs to go.

- Trade Tyson Barrie to Arizona for DeAngelo and Crouse. Yes I realize these are two man crush's of mine and I may be putting that above what I should but again this is based on a "full rebuild". I don't see Barrie being an Av past his contract. I know we shouldn't be worried about potential UFA's 3 years away but if we're going full rebuild we need to consider these things. DeAngelo has Barrie offensive potential. His ceiling is actually higher than Barrie's. Crouse is just a big, strong, fast freak of nature. Even if he doesn't hit his ceiling he's going to be one of the best 3rd liners in the league. I'd rather have our 3rd line filled with cost controlled, young assets than Blake Comeau's and Carl Soderberg's. I have suggested this trade to AZ fans before and a lot are on board. They need a RHD now.

- I test out the market on EJ. Again, based on a full rebuild only. We know how important D is and we've lacked it for quite some time. But if we're breaking everything down and starting over it's worth looking at who would have interest. Toronto and Tampa Bay are the two options I see. Both of these teams would also be buyers on Barrie most likely. I guess we'd be looking at some type of futures package. From Tampa I look at names like Stephens and Raddysh. From Toronto I look at Kapanen and Toronto's 1st. EJ's value is tough to gauge since his contract (the length more so than the dollar amount) is definitely a scare to other GM's. If we could trade EJ for something of equal value that EJ is right now as a hockey player we would make out like bandits but that's not how it works. We're going to have to take a hit on value if we move EJ which is what makes trading him more of a "feeling out" than a "make it happen". If we aren't going full rebuild I don't want EJ traded at all. He's too important.

- Landeskog. Same as EJ. Feel it out. I want to keep him around much more than I want to move him. I'd only move him if all the other moves above happened and we had a clear hole on the right D side going forward. I know his concussion history is scary but I'd move Landeskog and a plus for Ekblad.

 

[Ivan13]

Basically, if we trade one of Duchene/EJ/Landeskog they should explore options to move the other two as well. This team is going nowhere without a proper rebuild, go scorched earth or don't bother at all, I think anything else might potentially turn us into a bubble team that's going to be stuck in mediocrity drafting in the 10-17 spot.

PS

I don't think the current FO should be allowed to make any major move. they don't seem qualified to establish a proper direction and identity for the team but are rather just randomly adding players who are either over the hill or are in general a bad fit because of the existing personnel on the roster. The fact that they've let Stastny, McClement, and Radar go without adding a decent defensively minded centre is mind boggling.

 

[Miri]

The fascination with Drouin seems to be way stronger on here than it is on the Bolts board

I admit to be strongly enamored with him too Just bring him in already

 

[xbestboybandever]

Basically, if we trade one of Duchene/EJ/Landeskog they should explore options to move the other two as well. This team is going nowhere without a proper rebuild, go scorched earth or don't bother at all, I think anything else might potentially turn us into a bubble team that's going to be stuck in mediocrity drafting in the 10-17 spot.

PS

I don't think the current FO should be allowed to make any major move. they don't seem qualified to establish a proper direction and identity for the team but are rather just randomly adding players who are either over the hill or are in general a bad fit because of the existing personnel on the roster. The fact that they've let Stastny, McClement, and Radar go without adding a decent defensively minded centre is mind boggling.

JT Compher was part of the O'Reilly deal.

 

[Sea Eagles]

We've had patience so far, and we saw a marked improvement at the back end of last season compete wise. A full rebuild, when we may be one of the youngest rosters next season? Nah.

Keep adding to what we have. Let Bednar make his mark. Give some of the players who struggled this season a chance at redemption.

From the team that finished last season:
X We are adding Zadorov (I hope) into the team
X We are potentially adding a top 2-3 pick
X Bednar will have had time to groom his group
X Bigras may step up. Maybe Butcher, Meloche or a number of others
X Compher, Jost, Greer, Nieto, Lindholm all got a taste
X Duchene will work out either way. Trade for something quality, or he bounces back. Bank it.
X Soderberg & others won't stink it up as bad 2 seasons straight. They just won't. The season was an anomoly, not the norm for them as is seen statistically.

This team is 10X better than everyone is giving us credit for. I hope the opposition take us as lightly next season, and get dominated for it.

I also wish the off season would hurry around, because honestly, if people don't have hope all off season, this place is going to sound so morbid by puck drop next season - and when everyone is suprised by how much compete we have, I'm going to be so happy.

 

[tigervixxxen]

You dont need EJ to be a mentor. Ideally this is where good coaching comes in. You can get any experienced defenseman out of free agency to do mentoring. Even Beauchemin can do that. If you're going to argue that other defenseman aren't as good as EJ youre right, but the best players don't always make the best mentors and coaches.

EJ's trade value falls exponentially as time goes on. The time to move him would be soon if you want any value for him. It would be a shame to waste such a valuable trading asset.

Yes the team is better in the next few years with EJ, but i'm tired of the Avs being half in/half out of a rebuild. Just pick a direction and go all in. They will never get anywhere doing what they are currently doing.

This is where theyve failed time and time again. This is what they need to stop doing. Even a #youngerfaster or rebuilding team needs vets and if EJ can be that going forward then we don't need to go out and get the next Beauchemin. There is a massive difference between those options even if EJ starts declining. It's time to have some internal leaders instead of going out and expecting old dudes and mercenaries to do it, I feel like that's been one of the big culture problems too. Going out and buying more vet leaders is the last thing I want to see them doing.

 

[Bubba Thudd]

Not even a guy like Alzner?

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Not even a guy like Alzner?

I wouldn't pay much for a guy like Alzner. I would for Shattenkirk.

 

[Bubba Thudd]

Is Shatty going to be able to mentor our youngins on how to play Defense?
He's not that great of a defender...

 

[henchman21]

Shatty would be an elite #3 here (like he was in St Louis) and drastically improve the PP. That alone is probably worth 5-6 wins a season. I'd pay for him over Alzner.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Is Shatty going to be able to mentor our youngins on how to play Defense?
He's not that great of a defender...

Some people have different views of what a great defender is. I value when a puck enters the D zone a guy who can retrieve the puck, and transition it to the other zone. This is something that Shattenkirk does very well.

Some people prefer a defenseman who stays with his man, ties his man up and counts on somebody else to retrieve the puck which is what I see Alzner being.

Both have different qualities and I just prefer one set of qualities far more than the other. Adam Foote is one of my favorite hockey players of all time. Adam Foote would be awful in the NHL today (IMO)

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

Shatty would be an elite #3 here (like he was in St Louis) and drastically improve the PP. That alone is probably worth 5-6 wins a season. I'd pay for him over Alzner.

I'd be good with adding Shatty if the Avs end up trading Barrie for a young forward. If we don't, I'm not sure having ~21 million tied up in EJ, Shatty and Barrie would be smart (considering 2/3 aren't the greatest defensively).

I'm still personally hoping to add Alzner, and I realize some don't. I just think he'd either form an immediate top-shutdown pairing with EJ, or he'd cover for Barrie enough that he'd be free to do his thing offensively. Then again, maybe the Avs go crazy and somehow manage to add both (they won't).

 

[Sea Eagles]

Shatty would be an elite #3 here (like he was in St Louis) and drastically improve the PP. That alone is probably worth 5-6 wins a season. I'd pay for him over Alzner.

If you could trade Barrie+ to Tampa for Drouin, then acquire Shattenkirk, that would be the ideal situation for mine.

If you then somehow drafted Patrick, who is seen playing right wing a lot, you'd actually have great players, in great positions:-

Drouin - Mackinnon - Rantanen
Landeskog - Duchene - Patrick
Compher - Jost - Andrighetto
Nieto - Soderberg - Comeau

Zadorov - Johnson
Barberio - Shattenkirk
XXXXXXX - Lindholm

Varlamov
Pickard

That team would be super competitive imo. Guys like Grimaldi, Greer, Bigras, Meloche & others also all knocking on the door. Very young team, as well.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

I'd be good with adding Shatty if the Avs end up trading Barrie for a young forward. If we don't, I'm not sure having ~21 million tied up in EJ, Shatty and Barrie would be smart (considering 2/3 aren't the greatest defensively).

I'm still personally hoping to add Alzner, and I realize some don't. I just think he'd either form an immediate top-shutdown pairing with EJ, or he'd cover for Barrie enough that he'd be free to do his thing offensively. Then again, maybe the Avs go crazy and somehow manage to add both (they won't).

I think it's a no brainer that Barrie would be moved if we acquired Shatty. Shattenkirk is better than Barrie. He's fantastic on the powerplay and the way he moves the puck is the way our coach wants to be moved. Barrie's strength is moving the puck forward with his feet and he is never going to get that approval under Bednar.

Barrie may go somewhere else and absolutely flourish. He has the talent to be the best defenseman in the NHL offensively not named Karlsson or Burns but to me adding Shattenkirk along with the addition of what we get in return for Barrie is a major step forward for this hockey team.

 

[henchman21]

I'd be good with adding Shatty if the Avs end up trading Barrie for a young forward. If we don't, I'm not sure having ~21 million tied up in EJ, Shatty and Barrie would be smart (considering 2/3 aren't the greatest defensively).

I'm still personally hoping to add Alzner, and I realize some don't. I just think he'd either form an immediate top-shutdown pairing with EJ, or he'd cover for Barrie enough that he'd be free to do his thing offensively. Then again, maybe the Avs go crazy and somehow manage to add both (they won't).

Alzner is slowing down... I don't think he could last on a top pairing more than a season or two.

Getting Shatty would pretty much seal Barrie getting shipped out, but this is purely hypothetical. Shatty is going to the Rags.

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

I think it's a no brainer that Barrie would be moved if we acquired Shatty. Shattenkirk is better than Barrie. He's fantastic on the powerplay and the way he moves the puck is the way our coach wants to be moved. Barrie's strength is moving the puck forward with his feet and he is never going to get that approval under Bednar.

Barrie may go somewhere else and absolutely flourish. He has the talent to be the best defenseman in the NHL not named Karlsson or Burns but to me adding Shattenkirk along with the addition of what we get in return for Barrie is a major step forward for this hockey team.

Oh I agree. I wanted to add Yandle last year because of how quickly and aggressively he can make a breakout pass. Our defenders are largely skaters vs. distributors, this team would definitely be helped out by adding defensemen who can make that pass.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Not even a guy like Alzner?

No more term to guys who have never played here before. And no top FA is going to sign here anyway.

 

[Ivan13]

JT Compher was part of the O'Reilly deal.

And?

We got a rookie who still needs to carve out a role as a center 5 years after losing Jay, 3 years after losing Stasny and 2 years after losing Radar, and this is supposed to prove me wrong?

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Also I know stats aren't everything. But red flags should be set off when you see the Alzner played on the Caps and how poor he is when looking at shot stats.

Washington had the 4th best Corsi (Shot Attempts) differential percentage in the NHL.
Alzner's CF% was 47.2%
Alzner spent more time with the Ovechkin line than any other line. Alzner also spent more time with the Ovechkin line than any other defenseman did.
2 of the 3 members of that line (Oshie/Ovechkin) saw their CF% drastically increase away from Alzner compared to when they were with him.

Alzner does a great job of positioning himself in the D zone. He gets in front of shots and forces people outside. But he doesn't do much else. He has also slowed down a lot. Watching him play and then seeing all those red flags in the stats scares the hell out of me with Alzner. My hope is that Alzner signs with another team in the central in all honestly because I truly see him as a liability down the road.

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

This is where theyve failed time and time again. This is what they need to stop doing. Even a #youngerfaster or rebuilding team needs vets and if EJ can be that going forward then we don't need to go out and get the next Beauchemin. There is a massive difference between those options even if EJ starts declining. It's time to have some internal leaders instead of going out and expecting old dudes and mercenaries to do it, I feel like that's been one of the big culture problems too. Going out and buying more vet leaders is the last thing I want to see them doing.

The Avs have done a **** poor job of actually adding prime-aged vets. They seem to only target the former big name, over the hill vets.

 

[tucker3434]

I'd toss an offer Shatty's way, but I wouldn't be willing to outbid the Rangers for him. He's a guy you acquire when you feel you're a piece or two away from a cup, but you don't build your defense around him.

I hope we stay out of the UFA market for defense this year except for a budget signing or two. All those guys are going to get overpaid.

 

[Sea Eagles]

No more term to guys who have never played here before. And no top FA is going to sign here anyway.

Sorry TV, I disagree with that on many, many levels.
X Denver is a pretty fine city comparitively.
X Despite result, the club is pretty secure and grounded (monetarily)
X Despite all the doom & gloom here, I think the rest of the league understand this season was a one off
X We have an amazing core (including Duchene) that other clubs are envious of
X We are chemistry, systems and some luck away from being a competitor
X we haven't made rash decisions in desperate ways involving our players (they have all been treated very, very well)
X We work with players if superior alternatives are available for them (see Mcleod / Iginla)

I don't know, if I were a youngish, top quality player, the thought of playing with Duchene, Mackinnon, Landeskog, Patrick, Jost, Rantanen, Johnson, Barrie, Zadorov, Varlamov & others would excite the hell out of me.

X We will have cap space if we desperately need a player and need to pay market demand

Am I really the only one around here that has hope anymore? We aren't as big of a flop destination as people think.

I bet Bednar has this team ticking pretty quickly.

 

[Ivan13]

Also I know stats aren't everything. But red flags should be set off when you see the Alzner played on the Caps and how poor he is when looking at shot stats.

Washington had the 4th best Corsi (Shot Attempts) differential percentage in the NHL.
Alzner's CF% was 47.2%
Alzner spent more time with the Ovechkin line than any other line. Alzner also spent more time with the Ovechkin line than any other defenseman did.
2 of the 3 members of that line (Oshie/Ovechkin) saw their CF% drastically increase away from Alzner compared to when they were with him.

Alzner does a great job of positioning himself in the D zone. He gets in front of shots and forces people outside. But he doesn't do much else. He has also slowed down a lot. Watching him play and then seeing all those red flags in the stats scares the hell out of me with Alzner. My hope is that Alzner signs with another team in the central in all honestly because I truly see him as a liability down the road.

He doesn't pass the eye test either. I'm a big fan of his, but I think his ageing process will make Orpik looks like Ray Bourque.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

No more term to guys who have never played here before. And no top FA is going to sign here anyway.

I forget who it was. I also forget the context and how it was said. But somebody reputable (was either Friedman, Mckenzie or Lebrun) said back around the deadline that Shattenkirk might have interest in going back to Colorado.

 

[henchman21]

No more term to guys who have never played here before. And no top FA is going to sign here anyway.

Every team needs to add some free agents, the Avs just have to be better about what they are doing.

The only 'big' free agent signing I see happening is Kulikov, and I expect this board will meltdown when terms are announced.