Rumor: Avs Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents 2017-18 Part III

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tigervixxxen

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I'm not interested in moving Landeskog unless it's an overpayment. Some people think he's disappointing, others see him as irreplaceable (realistically). There's certain reasons Duchene is the target now. If blowing everything up becomes the goal and path then we can revisit. Otherwise I'm not interested.
 

chet1926

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I'm not interested in moving Landeskog unless it's an overpayment. Some people think he's disappointing, others see him as irreplaceable (realistically). There's certain reasons Duchene is the target now. If blowing everything up becomes the goal and path then we can revisit. Otherwise I'm not interested.

So you wouldn't even entertain the thought of moving the guy who just posted a 33pts season who has big time health concerns.

I know people in here love to put huge blinders on when it comes to anything Landeskog related, but the fact is he looked terrible last season, he has some kind of hip problem that probably will continue to get worse, not better. The guy is a ticking time bomb, I don't see him having a long career, and if he does I see it mirroring Dustin Brown except we've probably seen the best statistical season for Landeskog already.

If someone is willing to give you a decent return on the guy now you have to consider it.
 

Goulet17

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So you wouldn't even entertain the thought of moving the guy who just posted a 33pts season who has big time health concerns.

I know people in here love to put huge blinders on when it comes to anything Landeskog related, but the fact is he looked terrible last season, he has some kind of hip problem that probably will continue to get worse, not better. The guy is a ticking time bomb, I don't see him having a long career, and if he does I see it mirroring Dustin Brown except we've probably seen the best statistical season for Landeskog already.

If someone is willing to give you a decent return on the guy now you have to consider it.

Tyler Seguin has a diagnosed progressively degenerative hip condition. I don't see the Stars rushing to trade him.
 

AvsMakar08

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So you wouldn't even entertain the thought of moving the guy who just posted a 33pts season who has big time health concerns.

I know people in here love to put huge blinders on when it comes to anything Landeskog related, but the fact is he looked terrible last season, he has some kind of hip problem that probably will continue to get worse, not better. The guy is a ticking time bomb, I don't see him having a long career, and if he does I see it mirroring Dustin Brown except we've probably seen the best statistical season for Landeskog already.

If someone is willing to give you a decent return on the guy now you have to consider it.

Chet, as of now it seems like Mack, Jost, Rantanen and Makar are the untouchables but Landy, just like Barrie should be dealt only if it is a legit hockey trade. We need the likes of Zboril or Charlie McAvoy coming back. Maybe even Hanifin if Carolina wants Landy, but it looks that they need a center.
 

tigervixxxen

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So you wouldn't even entertain the thought of moving the guy who just posted a 33pts season who has big time health concerns.

I know people in here love to put huge blinders on when it comes to anything Landeskog related, but the fact is he looked terrible last season, he has some kind of hip problem that probably will continue to get worse, not better. The guy is a ticking time bomb, I don't see him having a long career, and if he does I see it mirroring Dustin Brown except we've probably seen the best statistical season for Landeskog already.

If someone is willing to give you a decent return on the guy now you have to consider it.

You can save the lecture, we know where you stand on Landeskog. I said there are those who see him as disappointing, we can leave it at that.
 

The Abusement Park

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I just fail to see how you can say that he is irreplaceable.

Ok so we trade Landy for an ROR like return(because realistically that's what he'd and get a defenseman as the main piece back who the hell are our top 6 wingers other than Mikko? Not only that we lose our best leader on the team. I mean I wouldn't say he's irreplaceable but getting rid of him would be tough.
 

AvsMakar08

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With Varlamov's successful hip surgeries and if he plays at his top form, this team might be a bubble team this season. Landy, Dutchy, Mack were putting up less points due to being paired with 3rd and 4th liners all season long thus making their stats look worse then they actually are. Beauchemin alone cost this team at least 10 points. Bigras and Mironov and a healthy Z could make a difference on defense. Most of the teams are trying to take advantage of this but Sakic has been doing a good job by not taking anything less then a top 4 young D man back in the the deal.
 

Cousin Eddie

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With the Columbus rumors, I decided to go back and watch some of their games this season in order to check out Ryan Murray and Gabriel Carlsson primarily.

It is interesting, as I have had a negative opinion regarding Murray and his development. I was particularly disturbed about his decline in advance stats this past season in relation to the rest of the team. I realize that some CBJ fans have characterized that decline to an uncertain role and Murray having to baby sit his defensive partner.

I have to say that I was impressed with Murray in the games that I viewed. I am not sure that I saw him make a defensive mistake in any game that I watched. His skating is strong, he is very smooth with strong edge work, pivots, lateral mobility, and above average speed. His first two to three stride acceleration may not be elite, but I would not characterize it as a weakness either.

He made quick, crisp passes and his puck skills appear strong, although he plays a conservative, defensive oriented game that is not geared toward offense. It is difficult to tell whether he has more offense in his game or whether he has settled into a defensive mindset. He did receive more power play time in the games that I viewed, primarily as Seth Jones was injured and out of the lineup. CBJ, as their fans have noted, utilize only one defenseman at a time on the PP, so if Werenski and Jones are in the lineup, Murray does not receive any minutes on the PP. JJ and Savard also do not receive minutes in that situation either.

I was not as impressed with JJ or Savard in my viewings, and I believe they may be overrated based on their shifts that I viewed. JJ's decision making is bizarre at times and Savard's mobility is a weakness. I personally liked Murray better than both and I can see coaches and scouts still really liking his game. He seems to have an exceptional defensive IQ and seemingly is always making the right play in his own zone in terms of positioning and puck movement. IMO, he would immediately have the highest defensive IQ on the Avs roster.

After having watched him more extensively, I think the biggest issue is his injury history. If he is not healthy, you can't rely on him, which is obviously a significant issue. I would say that given JJ's upcoming UFA status, I would think that Kekalainen and Davidson may lean toward keeping him as a long term replacement for JJ in their lineup.

I viewed Gabriel Carlsson as well and I was not as impressed. He is very raw and not NHL ready at this time IMO. He has some nice attributes, particularly his size and reach. His skating and mobility are not bad considering his size, but at the same time, he has some awkward choppiness to his skating at times.

I don't see the puck moving upside with him at this time, at least his puck skills are much more limited than Murray at this point. He is younger, so he can develop, but he lacks the smooth nature to his game that I see with Murray.

I also watched some of Boone Jenner, who some have mentioned as a possible component of a Duchene trade. I will say first off that I like Jenner's effort level, but his skating is really lacking IMO. He is a below average skater in terms of speed and acceleration at the NHL level (think ROR with less hockey IQ and anticipation to allow him to keep up with the flow of the play). He has strong balance on his skates, which is an underrated aspect IMO. His 30 goal campaign in 2015-2016 seems like a complete aberration. His skill level suggests to me that he is more likely to be a 15 goal, complimentary third line winger than a center, or a first or second line player. He apparently brings some positive leadership intangibles, which obviously has value.

I also watched Josh Anderson, who some have mentioned, and was not particularly impressed either. He has nice straight line speed and a big frame, but his skill level is lacking at times. I think he is unlikely to routinely duplicate his 17 goal output from last season and is a third or fourth line player.

Watched Milano a bit, but his number of games and shifts were limited. He was not really in a position to show off any of his skills, so it is difficult to comment on him. He skates well, but did not seem to be particularly engaged physically.

I plan to watch some of Maata next, although from what I observed in the playoffs, his skating is well below average (in terms of speed and quickness) and really limits him as a player.

Thanks for this post. I watch a lot of league wide hockey including Columbus, but I've never watched a game primarily to focus on Ryan Murray because, why would I? Anyway I'm glad I hear the positives. I'm down on him. He doesn't do anything to impress me when I watch which is often a good thing for a defenseman. But when a defenseman doesn't do anything to stand out and his stats are awful it's generally a real bad sign. Add the injuries on top of it, along with the downward trend of underlying stats and it's a guy that scares the hell out of me.

I'll keep an open mind, I appreciate you going into detail on what you've watched, but I'm still hoping the primary piece we get back for MD has a little more upside.
 

chet1926

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Tyler Seguin has a diagnosed progressively degenerative hip condition. I don't see the Stars rushing to trade him.

Agreed. But Seguin is still producing at an all-world level. Whereas Landeskog just potted 33 points. Lets put some reference on that here is a small list of guys that I think are very mediocre that had more points than Landeskog last season: Nick freaking Holden, Cogliano, Letestu, Baertschi etc. These aren't exactly high end players.

I don't think Landeskog is a 33pts player because of one bad season. But at the same time I don't think he is the 65pts player we saw a few years back either.

I do have concerns about the hip, it really depends on how bad his condition is. If the right package became available for Landy you'd have to at minimum consider it.
 

tigervixxxen

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I just fail to see how you can say that he is irreplaceable.

I said realistically. There isn't going to be a two way forward that steps into his shoes in this org in a while.

But I shouldn't have said anything, I was responding to someone stopping by. I'm not getting into another round of blame your least favorite core player, I really don't care.
 

chet1926

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You can save the lecture, we know where you stand on Landeskog. I said there are those who see him as disappointing, we can leave it at that.

I'm not lecturing, I'm sure everyone here knows how I feel about Landeskog. But that is beside the point.

All I'm saying is it would incredibly stupid to not consider moving him if the right package came about. Landeskog is not irreplaceable by any stretch of the imagination. Not sure where or why you think that. Realistically there are probably only 20 players league wide that are completely irreplaceable and Landy isn't one of them.

I'm not saying anything like he has to be moved, just simply that it should be considered for the right price.
 

Avsblitzkrieg

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With Varlamov's successful hip surgeries and if he plays at his top form, this team might be a bubble team this season. Landy, Dutchy, Mack were putting up less points due to being paired with 3rd and 4th liners all season long thus making their stats look worse then they actually are. Beauchemin alone cost this team at least 10 points. Bigras and Mironov and a healthy Z could make a difference on defense. Most of the teams are trying to take advantage of this but Sakic has been doing a good job by not taking anything less then a top 4 young D man back in the the deal.
Youth and inexpirence at the NHL could very well do the same thing
 

Avsblitzkrieg

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I'm not lecturing, I'm sure everyone here knows how I feel about Landeskog. But that is beside the point.

All I'm saying is it would incredibly stupid to not consider moving him if the right package came about. Landeskog is not irreplaceable by any stretch of the imagination. Not sure where or why you think that. Realistically there are probably only 20 players league wide that are completely irreplaceable and Landy isn't one of them.

I'm not saying anything like he has to be moved, just simply that it should be considered for the right price.
Whatever moves make the avs better I am down. For. Landeskog, makar,
EJ, Mack I don't care. If we get great value on Landy to improve the team do it.
 

tigervixxxen

Optimism=Delusional
Jul 7, 2013
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I'm not lecturing, I'm sure everyone here knows how I feel about Landeskog. But that is beside the point.

All I'm saying is it would incredibly stupid to not consider moving him if the right package came about. Landeskog is not irreplaceable by any stretch of the imagination. Not sure where or why you think that. Realistically there are probably only 20 players league wide that are completely irreplaceable and Landy isn't one of them.

I'm not saying anything like he has to be moved, just simply that it should be considered for the right price.

If it's a great offer everyone should be considered.
 

xbestboybandever

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Jun 24, 2015
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I'm not lecturing, I'm sure everyone here knows how I feel about Landeskog. But that is beside the point.

All I'm saying is it would incredibly stupid to not consider moving him if the right package came about. Landeskog is not irreplaceable by any stretch of the imagination. Not sure where or why you think that. Realistically there are probably only 20 players league wide that are completely irreplaceable and Landy isn't one of them.

I'm not saying anything like he has to be moved, just simply that it should be considered for the right price.

He reminds me of Dustin Brown circa 2011.
 

AvsMakar08

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Youth and inexpirence at the NHL could very well do the same thing

9 players are gone from last years lineup. There is no way that this team will be as bad as it was last season. Avs need to risk playing their youth just like Toronto did last year and hopefully with Varly healthy, we will be a playoff bubble team. Good season from Varly and surrounding our forwards with Jost and Compher type of players, adding Mironov, Hopefully Birgras and in a lineup will be something to what Maple Leafs did last season.
 

xbestboybandever

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Not everyone. Rantanen, Jost, Mack and Makar are untouchables for me as of now. If a hockey trade does come along in the lines of Zboril or Charlie McAvoy, then I agree with you.

And yet people were up in arms about a package built around Zboril for Landeskog around the deadline.
 

AllAboutAvs

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Not everyone. Rantanen, Jost, Mack and Makar are untouchables for me as of now. If a hockey trade does come along in the lines of Zboril or Charlie McAvoy, then I agree with you.
So you are saying that if it is a great offer everyone should be? :sarcasm:;)
 

AvsMakar08

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And yet people were up in arms about a package built around Zboril for Landeskog around the deadline.

I heard some rumors at the trade deadline but as of now, I consider Landeskog value to be something in the lines of Zboril, top prospect or a 1st round pick for Sakic even to consider trading Landy.
 

AvsMakar08

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Too many people on this forum sound like debbie downers. I too wish we can finish in bottom 5 to get the top 1 round pick but I just think that this team will be a playoff bubble team. With Varly healthy again, getting rid of 9 players on our roster and inserting Compher, Jost, Birgras, Mironov and a few others, it might not be as bad as many people here suggest.
 
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