Rumor: Avs Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents 18-19 part XXX|6'3" or You Don't Exist

[dahrougem2]

Wow Patagonia’s crazy and neurotic as well?

But seriously, here’s the thing - I’m not saying that it’s the extra $1m/year that will hamstring the team.

It’s the entirety of a $7-8m/year deal (for god knows how long) for a player that’s not going to be performing the same role for us going forward, that he has in the past. That role is clearly being usurped by Makar thereby negating Tyson’s best attributes, the reason(s) you sign him to such a deal.

With Makar filling that role, Barrie will become redundant sooner rather than later and we need to spend our cap space to address other issues on the back end. With the makeup of the d-unit already including smaller Dmen that are more offensive minded/puck movers and not physical (I.e. Makar and Girard), the last thing the defense needs is another undersized dman, who is a terrible defensive liability.

We need shutdown defenders that we can count on in our own end, especially ones that are good enough to play the PK.

Our PK was 25th last season, yet Barrie is such a defensive liability that, despite having such a bad PK, Bednar refused to ever play Barrie on the PK. In fact, Barrie logged less TOI on the PK than any other dman on the team - Cole, EJ, Nemo, Barberio, Zads, Girard, and Graves all had more short handed TOI than Barrie.

You just cannot afford to pay a guy as much as Barrie wants when considering his defensive issues, especially when you’re not going to give him the opportunities that made him successful in the past.

And yet, despite not playing PK, Tyson Barrie was still 2nd amongst Avalanche defensemen in TOI with 21:47 per game, a mere 2 seconds less than Erik Johnson.

Jump ahead to the playoffs, and it isn't even close. Tyson Barrie played almost 5 minutes per game more than the next closest Avalanche defensemen.

People need to seriously stop using the "he's redundant because Makar" argument. Like I don't ever see people saying "well we don't need a 2C because of MacKinnon". Like do you understand how absurd it sounds?

Tyson Barrie is a fantastic defensemen and a huge part of the core on this team. You don't trade him because you want to find a random penalty killing defensemen.

 

[Hasbro]

Man I miss Phil.

 

[Gatorbait19]

Did we have this convo already?





Sakic's about to sign everyone again, like Tavares.

Wow you mean the Avs, with more cap space than anyone and major offensive needs, are going to target the best player and the best center available?!?

That’s a real hot take Dater. I’m shocked that wasn’t enough to land him a job since yesterday.

I expect us to land Hayes, but have 0 chance at Panarin. Not sure if we’ll go after Skinner, but disheartening that he wasn’t mentioned, since he’s the best player we have a realistic chance at signing.

If all we get in FA is Hayes, then Joe better pound the pavement and trade for a legitimate scoring wing for our top 6.

 

[UncleRisto]

Fair enough, but at what point should the AVs close their history with Barrie? What if he makes these types of demands which is causing the delay.

• $8M+ per demands;
• Shorter term deal to reach UFA again;
• Huge upfront signing bonuses (lockout proof);
• NMC/NTC Clauses;
• Negotiate contract after next season.

So this is not Newport being difficult, they'll agree as per Barrie's instructions. The Presser was not encouraging and suspect discussions are not going well that fans shouldn't be to opportunistic of his future.

That aspect is there but look at Newport's RFA clients in the past, even just the defensemen. I know the player has a say in it but the guidance from the agency has to be there big time. In the end the thing is, Sakic knows where those negotiations stand, we most definitely don't know and won't know, but one thing's for sure, Newport will drag it into camp if they please.

 

[UncleRisto]

Wow you mean the Avs, with more cap space than anyone and major offensive needs, are going to target the best player and the best center available?!?

That’s a real hot take Dater. I’m shocked that wasn’t enough to land him a job since yesterday.

I expect us to land Hayes, but have 0 chance at Panarin. Not sure if we’ll go after Skinner, but disheartening that he wasn’t mentioned, since he’s the best player we have a realistic chance at signing.

If all we get in FA is Hayes, then Joe better pound the pavement and trade for a legitimate scoring wing for our top 6.

Yep, huge if true.

But yeah, I expect us to have real good shot at landing Hayes if they go for it.

 

[Gatorbait19]

And yet, despite not playing PK, Tyson Barrie was still 2nd amongst Avalanche defensemen in TOI with 21:47 per game, a mere 2 seconds less than Erik Johnson.

Jump ahead to the playoffs, and it isn't even close. Tyson Barrie played almost 5 minutes per game more than the next closest Avalanche defensemen.

People need to seriously stop using the "he's redundant because Makar" argument. Like I don't ever see people saying "well we don't need a 2C because of MacKinnon". Like do you understand how absurd it sounds?

Tyson Barrie is a fantastic defensemen and a huge part of the core on this team. You don't trade him because you want to find a random penalty killing defensemen.

Tyson’s minutes in the playoffs started declining right as Makar began getting time with the 1st line and 1st PP unit.

Tyson also averaged 4+ minutes on the PP each game. Do you expect that to continue? B/c your silly “we don’t need a 2c b/c of MacK” argument ignores the fact that Makar is taking that spot.

You need to be honest with yourself as a fan. Tyson Barrie is a fantastic OFFENSIVE defenseman, who is a defensive liability, therefore significantly limiting his opportunities on the ice (which are also being reduced now by Makar).

And I don’t want to trade him b/c I want to find a randomly PK dman. I want to trade him b/c I don’t want to pay a one-Dimensional player 1D money, particularly when we are reducing/removing the best parts of his game from the equation.

 

[dahrougem2]

Tyson’s minutes in the playoffs started declining right as Makar began getting time with the 1st line and 1st PP unit.

Tyson also averaged 4+ minutes on the PP each game. Do you expect that to continue? B/c your silly “we don’t need a 2c b/c of MacK” argument ignores the fact that Makar is taking that spot.

You need to be honest with yourself as a fan. Tyson Barrie is a fantastic OFFENSIVE defenseman, who is a defensive liability, therefore significantly limiting his opportunities on the ice (which are also being reduced now by Makar).

And I don’t want to trade him b/c I want to find a randomly PK dman. I want to trade him b/c I don’t want to pay a one-Dimensional player 1D money, particularly when we are reducing/removing the best parts of his game from the equation.

Lmao. Makar is taking that spot? Spare me.

Tyson Barrie is one of the best PP defensemen in the entire league. A rookie - regardless of hype - is not coming in and taking that spot.

You know whose role Cale Makar is taking? Erik Johnson's on the 2nd unit PP.

And again, I laugh at the people who claim Tyson Barrie is a one dimensional defensive liability. He's not Marc-Edouard Vlasic, but teams don't play players 21+ minutes in the regular season and 24+ minutes in the playoffs if they're liabilities. Just because he doesn't kill penalties does not make him a liability. It just means we had Erik Johnson, Ian Cole, Patrik Nemeth, and Nikita Zadorov to choose from. A team does not rotate 6 defensemen on the PK. Barrie is not needed there.

 

[Patagonia]

Wow Patagonia’s crazy and neurotic as well?

But seriously, here’s the thing - I’m not saying that it’s the extra $1m/year that will hamstring the team.

It’s the entirety of a $7-8m/year deal (for god knows how long) for a player that’s not going to be performing the same role for us going forward, that he has in the past. That role is clearly being usurped by Makar thereby negating Tyson’s best attributes, the reason(s) you sign him to such a deal.

With Makar filling that role, Barrie will become redundant sooner rather than later and we need to spend our cap space to address other issues on the back end. With the makeup of the d-unit already including smaller Dmen that are more offensive minded/puck movers and not physical (I.e. Makar and Girard), the last thing the defense needs is another undersized dman, who is a terrible defensive liability.

We need shutdown defenders that we can count on in our own end, especially ones that are good enough to play the PK.

Our PK was 25th last season, yet Barrie is such a defensive liability that, despite having such a bad PK, Bednar refused to ever play Barrie on the PK. In fact, Barrie logged less TOI on the PK than any other dman on the team - Cole, EJ, Nemo, Barberio, Zads, Girard, and Graves all had more short handed TOI than Barrie.

You just cannot afford to pay a guy as much as Barrie wants when considering his defensive issues, especially when you’re not going to give him the opportunities that made him successful in the past.

Consider the options:

1. Retires with AVs. He'll be the highest paid DMan on the team for at least the next 3-5 years until ELC from the youngsters ends.
2. Trade Later. Being highly paid and playing 2D or 3D would be extremely difficult to move unless the AVs retain. Paying for the early portion of his deal and costly near the end. Trade return is low, but with a problematic cap hit.
3. Move Now. Why wait when negotiations are moving slowly. Each day he approaches UFA, his value declines. Replacement players have reached the NHL which are cheaper, faster, talented and younger. Expansion draft is going to costs someone which is likely EJ or Zadorov. Newport is not an excuse, Barrie is responsible for accepting any offer.

Being realistic, Barrie no longer has a fit on the team. Trading him will add valuable assets to further the future of the team than keeping him.

 

[Barklez]

Wow Patagonia’s crazy and neurotic as well?

But seriously, here’s the thing - I’m not saying that it’s the extra $1m/year that will hamstring the team.

It’s the entirety of a $7-8m/year deal (for god knows how long) for a player that’s not going to be performing the same role for us going forward, that he has in the past. That role is clearly being usurped by Makar thereby negating Tyson’s best attributes, the reason(s) you sign him to such a deal.

We have no reason to believe that.

Makar, if anything, will be taking EJ's role. Barrie was good for us down the stretch and into playoffs, but if Makar can fill EJ's shoes, Barrie's role doesn't need to change at all. You could argue that Barrie will lose PP1 time, but I would argue that Makar should come into PP1 at the expense of Wilson/Kerfoot/Jost/Compher rather than Barrie.

Barrie isn't suddenly getting bad at hockey. He is still worth what he has proven up to this point. A new player coming into the league has no bearing on Barrie's skill or value. If Barrie becomes obsolete in a year or two, move him then.

With Makar filling that role, Barrie will become redundant sooner rather than later and we need to spend our cap space to address other issues on the back end. With the makeup of the d-unit already including smaller Dmen that are more offensive minded/puck movers and not physical (I.e. Makar and Girard), the last thing the defense needs is another undersized dman, who is a terrible defensive liability.

We need shutdown defenders that we can count on in our own end, especially ones that are good enough to play the PK.

Again, no.

Sometimes it feels like there are members here that genuinely think 9296 would be just as good if they were still playing in front of Hejda/Zanon/Guenin. Weird how the offence picked up when the defence quit sucking.

Even after watching Makar in the playoffs we're going to keep mischaracterizing him? Really?

Our PK was 25th last season, yet Barrie is such a defensive liability that, despite having such a bad PK, Bednar refused to ever play Barrie on the PK. In fact, Barrie logged less TOI on the PK than any other dman on the team - Cole, EJ, Nemo, Barberio, Zads, Girard, and Graves all had more short handed TOI than Barrie.

You just cannot afford to pay a guy as much as Barrie wants when considering his defensive issues, especially when you’re not going to give him the opportunities that made him successful in the past.

Do you hate Yandle's contract as well? He seems like the comparable that makes the most sense. He's making 6.35 (8.7% of the cap when signed). Under an 83M cap that is 7.22, 85M cap it's 7.39.

Again, we have no reason to believe this.

If your whole argument is based on the assumption that Barrie's play will fall off a cliff after he starts to play more sheltered minutes then I don't know what to say to you.

If your main concern is paying too much for a guy that won't be filling the same role any more I'd tell you to look a little up and to the right, over Barrie's shoulder, at EJ who's hoping nobody notices he's getting paid to do a lot of things he isn't capable of any more.

 

[dahrougem2]

Being realistic, Barrie no longer has a fit on the team. Trading him will add valuable assets to further the future of the team than keeping him.

Lmao. What a load of nonsense. Not surprising, though.

 

[Mighty Makar]

I need a beer.

 

[AvsCOL]

Lmao. Makar is taking that spot? Spare me.

Tyson Barrie is one of the best PP defensemen in the entire league. A rookie - regardless of hype - is not coming in and taking that spot.

You know whose role Cale Makar is taking? Erik Johnson's on the 2nd unit PP.

And again, I laugh at the people who claim Tyson Barrie is a one dimensional defensive liability. He's not Marc-Edouard Vlasic, but teams don't play players 21+ minutes in the regular season and 24+ minutes in the playoffs if they're liabilities. Just because he doesn't kill penalties does not make him a liability. It just means we had Erik Johnson, Ian Cole, Patrik Nemeth, and Nikita Zadorov to choose from. A team does not rotate 6 defensemen on the PK. Barrie is not needed there.

Might have to bookmark this.

 

[Avs_19]

I don't know about points, ice time, roles, etc but I think there's a good chance Makar will be better than Barrie by the end of next season and that's coming from a Barrie fan. Makar is that good.

 

[AvsMakar08]

Everyone has their own opinions about the Barrie contract but he only has 1 year remaining on his deal. If he is not willing to sign a deal with Avs this summer and gives us problems then trade him. We will not need all this extra drama next season when we might be in the middle of competing.

 

[22FUTON9]

Oh boy if Panarin really does become an av... I don’t care who the hell we draft or what the contract will look like. We’re gonna be favorites for the next 4 or 5 years

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Lol legit laughed out loud at this tweet. Is Dater actually Drury_Sakic? We’ll just sign all the UFA’s.

 

[Avsboy]

Dater claims a 40% chance of Avs landing Panarin.

If Avs draft a forward they will have a core of Girard, Makar, Zadorov, Mackinnon, Rantanen, Landeskog, Draft Pick, Panarin for at least the next half decade, probably longer. How bout' them apples.

 

[AvsRobin]

Dater's info is always meh. The only thing he says that a source has said is that Avs like Hayes. Which we already knew. That he "expects" Avs to make an offer for Panarin isn't something I put much faith in.

 

[ljb4]

Consider the options:

1. Retires with AVs. He'll be the highest paid DMan on the team for at least the next 3-5 years until ELC from the youngsters ends.
2. Trade Later. Being highly paid and playing 2D or 3D would be extremely difficult to move unless the AVs retain. Paying for the early portion of his deal and costly near the end. Trade return is low, but with a problematic cap hit.
3. Move Now. Why wait when negotiations are moving slowly. Each day he approaches UFA, his value declines. Replacement players have reached the NHL which are cheaper, faster, talented and younger. Expansion draft is going to costs someone which is likely EJ or Zadorov. Newport is not an excuse, Barrie is responsible for accepting any offer.

Being realistic, Barrie no longer has a fit on the team. Trading him will add valuable assets to further the future of the team than keeping him.

Rather than let Barrie walk as a UFA at the end of next year, I would rather overpay him on a 5 year deal (8.5 - 9M) without an NMC and expose him to Seattle in the expansion draft. The Avs are going to have to lose a good player, I would think Seattle would love to have a high scoring D-man, and his cap hit would not be a major concern to an expansion team. It would allow the Avs to go 3D-7F for expansion so he or EJ (if he waives) would be the best option for Seattle. The Avs get Barrie for an average of 7 - 7.5M for his 28 and 29 year old seasons and he is out the door when he hits 30.

 

[The Pwnerer]

Sign Hayes, then trade the 16th for Zucker and voila a decent top six. Panarin is the pipe dream.

Landy-Mack-Rants
Zucker-Hayes-Compher

 

[Avs_19]

Avs probably have to beat the Panthers offer by at least $1M/yr if money is the priority for Panarin. So it's probably going to take around $11M/yr for the Avs to land him. I honestly don't even care about the amount, if his interest is real then do what it takes to get it done.

 

[lonelybadger]

Pagnotta was good. I like Nelson too.

 

[AvsMakar08]

Colorado has a Colorado river. Panarin likes the Ocean. Some people are like that, they just want to live next to the Ocean and I can understand that.

 

[Hasbro]

Colorado has a Colorado river. Panarin likes the Ocean. Some people are like that, they just want to live next to the Ocean and I can understand that.

Throw out a couple folding chairs on the Platte.

 

[shadow1]

Wow Patagonia’s crazy and neurotic as well?

But seriously, here’s the thing - I’m not saying that it’s the extra $1m/year that will hamstring the team.

It’s the entirety of a $7-8m/year deal (for god knows how long) for a player that’s not going to be performing the same role for us going forward, that he has in the past. That role is clearly being usurped by Makar thereby negating Tyson’s best attributes, the reason(s) you sign him to such a deal.

With Makar filling that role, Barrie will become redundant sooner rather than later and we need to spend our cap space to address other issues on the back end. With the makeup of the d-unit already including smaller Dmen that are more offensive minded/puck movers and not physical (I.e. Makar and Girard), the last thing the defense needs is another undersized dman, who is a terrible defensive liability.

We need shutdown defenders that we can count on in our own end, especially ones that are good enough to play the PK.

Our PK was 25th last season, yet Barrie is such a defensive liability that, despite having such a bad PK, Bednar refused to ever play Barrie on the PK. In fact, Barrie logged less TOI on the PK than any other dman on the team - Cole, EJ, Nemo, Barberio, Zads, Girard, and Graves all had more short handed TOI than Barrie.

You just cannot afford to pay a guy as much as Barrie wants when considering his defensive issues, especially when you’re not going to give him the opportunities that made him successful in the past.

Wanted to respond to your last post, but the stupid thread was closed.

• The salary cap isn’t increasing so much though that it increased Barrie’s AAV that much. The difference/inflation rate between last year (when Carlson signed) and this year (when Barrie should sign), is about $250k.

If you're talking about inflation between the 2017-2018 season and the 2018-2019 season, the salary cap in 2019 was $79.5 million. Adjusted for inflation, that's about $78.1 million in 2018 terms. The thing is, the 2018 salary cap was $75 million.

• Even giving Barrie the benefit of that $250k, it doesn’t put him anywhere near Burns or Karlsson.

I assume you mean Carlson here. Again, those guys signed their contracts in a different cap structure. Carlson, after his second straight 68+ point season, probably gets $9M+ if he signs right now.

It's extremely likely that first year of Barrie's next contract - i.e. the 2020-2021 season - takes place in an NHL with an $84+ million salary cap. That's the only reason his next contract will be in the same ball park - not his performance compared to those two.

• Also, both Carlson and Burns signed with their current teams, although they could’ve gotten more on the open market. If we do sign Barrie, the same principal has to apply, meaning that (even if $8m was around what Barrie would get paid), he needs to give some sort of hometown discount down to at least $7m.

$8M then =/= $8M now.

I'm not even saying he's worth $8. But it's definitely hard to argue with ~$7.5, based on what he's done.