Post-Game Talk: Avs lose a tough one

[ColoradoSportsFan]

Mack on the PK was awful. Roy had been doing a good of keeping him in positions where he wouldn't be over his head, he whiffed on that tonight.

Officiating was wonky all night probably due to the hit. But man they really "let them play" in the 3rd.

Staz's line was pretty good all night. Dutchy's line was good too. Nobody could finish though.

If Roy shuffles any lines, I'd move ROR down with Staz and Lando and put Tanguay up with Downey and Dutchy. Even if guys have to play off wings.

Crowd was awesome, even most of the Wings fans were cool. Which had become rare. Can't remember the last over capacity, standing room only Sellout.

 

[NothingLikeAnEJ]

Question for you, how does it feel getting all the calls and bounces throughout multiple seasons? Don't think I am asking you in a sore loser way because I am not. It is something that I observed and just curious what Wing fans think of the situation they're in and how veteran teams get away with calls.

Stop it man. The Wings have been screwed countless times in the past as well. Remember against San Jose a few years ago when it was a tie game and then Lidstrom's stick randomly broke making a pass and then Marleau scored to end their season. They don't ALWAYS get calls and bounces. You sound like a sore loser even though you may try not to be one.

 

[zxcvnm]

Question for you, how does it feel getting all the calls and bounces throughout multiple seasons? Don't think I am asking you in a sore loser way because I am not. It is something that I observed and just curious what Wing fans think of the situation they're in and how veteran teams get away with calls.

What is the purpose of this question? Was there something egregious the refs did in the game that I missed? And how do the wings get all the bounces to go their way? If they flip a coin 100 times, does it come up heads every time? I hate the wings, but this question struck me as out of left field.

 

[Taak19]

ROR-Dutch-Ginner
Landy-Staz-PAP
Tangs-MacK-Downie

Please.

 

[zxcvnm]

ROR-Dutch-Ginner
Landy-Staz-PAP
Tangs-MacK-Downie

Please.

That's a fairly significant change from the current lines. I have a feeling Roy is not a line shuffling type, preferring players to build chemistry over time rather than hope that lightning strikes by finding some optimal set of lines.

Time will tell, of course.

 

[S E P H]

Stop it man. The Wings have been screwed countless times in the past as well. Remember against San Jose a few years ago when it was a tie game and then Lidstrom's stick randomly broke making a pass and then Marleau scored to end their season. They don't ALWAYS get calls and bounces. You sound like a sore loser even though you may try not to be one.

Can't change your opinion, if you think I am acting like a sore loser, so be it (honestly don't care). I am pretty curious if Red Wing fans acknowledge this or not, because it is simply reality that it happens.

Name the countless number of times besides one play, even though the Marleau goal was huge? I am more interested in the non calls than the luck bounces though because every team has it against them. The one where (I believe) McGinn or Downie was going after the rebound straight to the net and was tied up definitely should have been a call, but yet play still went on. What about the slash on Mitchell's stick when he was on the penalty kill? What about the trip on Duchene at the blue line. If you're going to call Wilson's or Tanguay's weak hook, then these must have been calls against Detroit, a slash is always a slash, hooking a players stick for a good scoring chance is always a hooking penatly.

I am bring up this question because it has happened in ALL the games we have played with Detroit, this isn't one or two miss calls, but multiple seasons unaccounted for. All you guys were whining about the lack of calls a couple seasons ago, so please don't play the hypocrisy card when I ask a legitimate question.

 

[zxcvnm]

Can't change your opinion, if you think I am acting like a sore loser, so be it (honestly don't care). I am pretty curious if Red Wing fans acknowledge this or not, because it is simply reality that it happens.

Name the countless number of times besides one play, even though the Marleau goal was huge? I am more interested in the non calls than the luck bounces though because every team has it against them. The one where (I believe) McGinn or Downie was going after the rebound straight to the net and was tied up definitely should have been a call, but yet play still went on. What about the slash on Mitchell's stick when he was on the penalty kill? What about the trip on Duchene at the blue line. If you're going to call Wilson's or Tanguay's weak hook, then these must have been calls against Detroit, a slash is always a slash, hooking a players stick for a good scoring chance is always a hooking penatly.

I am bring up this question because it has happened in ALL the games we have played with Detroit, this isn't one or two miss calls, but multiple seasons unaccounted for. All you guys were whining about the lack of calls a couple seasons ago, so please don't play the hypocrisy card when I ask a legitimate question.

Bad calls and missed calls happen. We've benefitted from out fair share as well. You'd have to provide better evidence than observational data that isn't particularly objective (and even if it was, other people would have plenty of reason to be skeptical nonetheless).

Really, it strikes me as more confirmation bias than anything else.

I wasn't on HFBoards a couple seasons ago and I very rarely, if ever, complain about refs. Bad calls tend to even out over the course of a season so I see little purpose in being mad about a particular call in one moment of one game in an 82 game season (I know that comment wasn't directed at me in particular, but I thought I'd mention this anyways).

 

[S E P H]

Bad calls and missed calls happen. We've benefitted from out fair share as well. You'd have to provide better evidence than observational data that isn't particularly objective (and even if it was, other people would have plenty of reason to be skeptical nonetheless).

Really, it strikes me as more confirmation bias than anything else.

Then explain Kevin Weeks (a past NHL goaler) and Kelly Chase making the same argument as I have? I admit it is just two people, but both played games in the NHL and against Detroit. They know what is up more than any of us, even if you guys think they are stupid.

I would like to add that we did not lose this game because of the refs, I am thinking about the "what if" opportunities that were not called.

 

[tigervixxxen]

MacKinnon's breakaway in the third should definitely have been a penalty called. That's an example of an instance where reputation comes into play. In general though some days calls go your way and some don't, it happens.

 

[FlashyG]

Question for you, how does it feel getting all the calls and bounces throughout multiple seasons? Don't think I am asking you in a sore loser way because I am not. It is something that I observed and just curious what Wing fans think of the situation they're in and how veteran teams get away with calls.

Don't think I am biased because even Kevin Weeks has commented about this same situation.

I think in the past the # of penalties for the Wings came from their puck possession style. The more often you have the puck the less likely you are to take a penalty.

This season so far the calls haven't exactly gone the Wings way, just the other night vs Boston the Wings had 6 PP's against without getting a single PP. In the other game vs Boston they had 1 PP to Boston's 5.

Tonight's was a poorly officiated game both ways. Lots of calls on weak hooks and slashes and obvious trips go uncalled.

The bounces certainly went the Wings way tonight with pucks off posts and some of your guys fanning on shots on key scoring chances, but those things even out over a season. The Wings have been out played in each of their last 3 games yet they won all of them, so I fully expect they'll have a stretch of great hockey later this season where opposing goalies steal them all.

 

[oilinblood]

just here tosay that in my unbiased opinion Mcleods hit wasnt dirty. His feet were aimed at the corner and he was gliding until Kronwall decided to reverse into pressure and, put his head at waist level and by reversing closed the checking gap himself. Even when Kronwall changed his line to pick up puck and reverse... McLeod didnt take strides, didnt leave feet, didnt cross check, didnt use shoulder or elbow. Clean hit in my opinion.

At some point puck carriers have to be responsible for their own safety. This is one of those calls where the puck carrier made the hit bad.

Not McLeods fault.

 

[S E P H]

I think in the past the # of penalties for the Wings came from their puck possession style. The more often you have the puck the less likely you are to take a penalty.

This season so far the calls haven't exactly gone the Wings way, just the other night vs Boston the Wings had 6 PP's against without getting a single PP. In the other game vs Boston they had 1 PP to Boston's 5.

Tonight's was a poorly officiated game both ways. Lots of calls on weak hooks and slashes and obvious trips go uncalled.

The bounces certainly went the Wings way tonight with pucks off posts and some of your guys fanning on shots on key scoring chances, but those things even out over a season. The Wings have been out played in each of their last 3 games yet they won all of them, so I fully expect they'll have a stretch of great hockey later this season where opposing goalies steal them all.

Thank you for your honest opinion, I do agree that we lost this game due to not capitalizing on our scoring chances than the refs. I just believe that the noncall on McGinn could have been a game changer penalty, IMO.

 

[zxcvnm]

Then explain Kevin Weeks (a past NHL goaler) and Kelly Chase making the same argument as I have? I admit it is just two people, but both played games in the NHL and against Detroit. They know what is up more than any of us, even if you guys think they are stupid.

I would like to add that we did not lose this game because of the refs, I am thinking about the "what if" opportunities that were not called.

The problem is that anecdotal evidence is not sufficient regardless of the source.

The NHL absolutely should have a system in place where teams can submit, for evidence, bad calls and missed calls. The NHL should review them to confirm or reject the team's assessment. Over the course of a season or more, it should be easy to determine if there's any statistically significant bias taking place and impose corrective measures if that's the case. If the NHL doesn't have such a system, it absolutely should.

Beyond that, complaining about refs and how one team always seems to get the benefit of the doubt and another always gets screwed over never comes across as objective analysis that can be taken seriously.

 

[S E P H]

The problem is that anecdotal evidence is not sufficient regardless of the source.

The NHL absolutely should have a system in place where teams can submit, for evidence, bad calls and missed calls. The NHL should review them to confirm or reject the team's assessment. Over the course of a season or more, it should be easy to determine if there's any statistically significant bias taking place and impose corrective measures if that's the case. If the NHL doesn't have such a system, it absolutely should.

Beyond that, complaining about refs and how one team always seems to get the benefit of the doubt and another always gets screwed over never comes across as objective analysis that can be taken seriously.

Alright I understand your point of view and I absolutely agree with your assessment of what the NHL could do to make the playing field seem more fair.

 

[DanglesFromDuchene]

The problem is that anecdotal evidence is not sufficient regardless of the source.

The NHL absolutely should have a system in place where teams can submit, for evidence, bad calls and missed calls. The NHL should review them to confirm or reject the team's assessment. Over the course of a season or more, it should be easy to determine if there's any statistically significant bias taking place and impose corrective measures if that's the case. If the NHL doesn't have such a system, it absolutely should.

Beyond that, complaining about refs and how one team always seems to get the benefit of the doubt and another always gets screwed over never comes across as objective analysis that can be taken seriously.

This just sounds like a bad idea that would create only more problems. So say Team A had a lot of bad calls against them one year, what would the corrective measures be? Refs going into the game can't be thinking, oh, this is the team that we screwed last year let's make sure we don't call bad penalties on them is only asking for that team getting away with too much. Not to mention, how can you review a bad call? Most bad calls or non calls are based on positioning and speed of the game. You can't replicate that exact scenario in a video room.

 

[Bender]

McGinn-Duchene-PAP
Lando-ROR-Downie
Tanguay-Staz-MacKinnon

Not enough grit on the 3rd line? I don't see it as an issue. With 3 strong centers, great on faceoffs, I'd like to see other teams defend that.

 

[Tomas W]

Question for you, how does it feel getting all the calls and bounces throughout multiple seasons? Don't think I am asking you in a sore loser way because I am not. It is something that I observed and just curious what Wing fans think of the situation they're in and how veteran teams get away with calls.

Don't think I am biased because even Kevin Weeks has commented about this same situation.

You mean like the other day against the Bruins when we got 0 PP and 5 x 2 min PK?

 

[Freudian]

It's been two crazy weeks to start the season with all the Roy/MacKinnon attention and then the winning streak. Hopefully it will shift over to some sort of normality now and the team can just focus on becoming better and winning games.

 

[Sheet]

It's been two crazy weeks to start the season with all the Roy/MacKinnon attention and then the winning streak. Hopefully it will shift over to some sort of normality now and the team can just focus on becoming better and winning games.

I don't want anything avs normal. The avs normal over the last 5 years is something I never want to see again.

Comments on the wings getting slack on calls, stems from a veteran line up. It happens in just about any sport. Refs are more apt to give a Pavel the benefit of the doubt then a Highlander.

I don't think it's an NHL bias by any means, or refs that are just huge Detroit fans. It's more due to their veteran line up.

I mean, a penalty is a penalty but if they stopped the play every time there was a rule broken, we'd still be watching the Ducks game, live.

 

[avsfan89]

Stastny - Duchene - Parenteau
Landeskog - O'Reilly - Downie
McGinn - Mackinnon - Tanguay


Hejda - EJ
Benoit - Barrie
Wilson - Sarich

 

[Freudian]

About Landeskog and being snake bitten. We also have to remember he's not a sniper. He doesn't have a great shot. He's got a decent shot with a great ability to get shots off. He needs to throw a lot of shots at net to get his 25 goals where a player like Duchene won't need as many.

That said, he's had a bit of bad luck too. Normally he'd have another goal or two but I think we have to get used to these how-could-he-miss-that moments from time to time.

This game was a big step forward for him. He was Avs best forward and he kept going to the net all night.

 

[jaems]

Get badly outshot and win. Outshoot them 40-28 and lose. Go figure.

Like Roy said, we played better tonight than we did in a few of our wins. It happens. Even though we lost tonight, I feel better about our performance tonight than against the Stars.

Couldn't watch the game. Chance-wise, were the Avs ahead/on par with the Wings? Shot counts don't say much if say most of the shots were relatively harmless.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Seriously for anyone who didn't watch the game, the Avs were in the offensive zone the entire second period. I cannot remember a period where they played like that. It was one of those when not if they will score feelings. They could have easily had 4+ goals that period.

 

[member 116861]

Couldn't watch the game. Chance-wise, were the Avs ahead/on par with the Wings? Shot counts don't say much if say most of the shots were relatively harmless.

I would say that we had a lot more chances.

 

[Freudian]

Couldn't watch the game. Chance-wise, were the Avs ahead/on par with the Wings? Shot counts don't say much if say most of the shots were relatively harmless.

Avs were the better team and deserved to win. But we have to remember that Detroit didn't have Kronwall for almost the whole game which may be one explanation for Avs being the better team.